Binding Black Growler (spoilers for GM Screen Pack Adventures)

[Erol of Backford]

Spoiler

If a PC had a spirit binding enchantment on an object, had a command spirit spell and was able to defeat the Black Growler's Spirit in spirit combat, could they then force said spirit into the enchantment at the time of the Black Growler death? If then the Black Growler's body (assuming it didn't dissipate?) was skinned and tanned could the spirit be bound into the skin and the PC wear it around like a cloak and hood? If nothing else it would be interesting for that character, even better if it were a Basmoli? Several big if's there of course but curious on the feasibility of it. Also the spirit would be hostile of course but possibly any cooperation would geas the wearer to drink blood, kill live animals, eat their organs with the Growler's claws? Etc. etc. Maybe the have to struggle each season to not be consumed by the Growler's spirit and transformed bac into the beast physically?

Any ideas how this could be done if the skin/body didn't dissipate and the spirit could be bound at its death?

(Black Growler, p.42, Runequest Gamemaster Adventures)

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Scotty
added spoiler

[David Scott]

Using MGF, sure.

If they were a shaman this would all be within their normal working abilities, a troll shaman more so. That said it's not an embodied spirit, just a very tough demonic hound that's survived in the Middle World for 1275 years.

There's a lot of ifs here.

• Be able to Discorporate to initiate spirit combat and win (it has a spirit combat of 125%)
• Has Command (Underworld demon) from Subere or
• Control (Underworld demon) from a shaman
• Resist its howl every round
• have Crystal or an enchantment ready (2 POW)
• once the skin is prepared, enchant it (2 POW)
• then using the same command control, move it over.

11 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Also the spirit would be hostile of course but possibly any cooperation would geas the wearer to drink blood, kill live animals, eat their organs  Etc. etc. Maybe the have to struggle each season to not be consumed by the spirit and transformed bac into the beast physically?

That's for the GM to decide, but as that's not part of the creature I'd not do that. Remember that it has no magic so the owner would just be able to use it's magic points, although I would let the 3pt skin regenerate slowly if damaged.

[Erol of Backford]

Thanks a bunch Mr. Scott! It really helps put possible/potential steps in perspective.  

Another question related to the Growler in Spoiler Section:

Spoiler

Another IF question: If all the above were successful would the spirit not be able to communicate "scent prey", "track", "underworld lore" and translate between languages it knows? I see it as a sort of Jr. Harrek but with the Growler in lieu of the Polar Bear God. This is a spirit and not a god of course...  Doesn't the Polar Bear god bend to the will of Harrek?

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Erol of Backford

[g33k]

19 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Doesn't the Polar Bear god bend to the will of Harrek?

IMG, it's actually a bit ambiguous.
"Officially," Harrek killed and skinned the god and now wields much of the power.

But... maybe what's actually going on is that the god is possessing Harrek as an avatar in the world, to go rampaging around without that annoying Compromise of Time getting in the way...  😉  [ "After all:  the Red Bitch does it, why can't I?" ]

WBRM places the two entities as titular peers, after all...

[David Scott]

On 1/17/2022 at 10:41 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Another IF question:

  Hide contents

If all the above were successful would the spirit not be able to communicate "scent prey", "track", "underworld lore" and translate between languages it knows? I see it as a sort of Jr. Harrek but with the Growler in lieu of the Polar Bear God. This is a spirit and not a god of course...  Doesn't the Polar Bear god bend to the will of Harrek?

Even if you trapped the entire creature (as it's an otherworld creature) with a 6 POW binding (also possible), RQG, page 249 says: An entity bound within an item has no natural senses and cannot perceive the world about it unless it uses magic. In this case it has no magic.

The alternative would be to bind the creature into the Adventurer as a form of possession. Then they could have a battle of wills to see who was in control...

[Erol of Backford]

Spoiler

With the big dog situation it cannot hear or sense anything if its bound so none of its abilities are transferred and all one would get is a cloak that might heal itself? A bit of a let-down after some illusions of PC grandeur for a cool cloak that could help the sense, track and speak some new languages?

So how do ghost/spirits sense people and attack them if they are bond to an object, a body or area and have no spells, how can they talk or communicate while they are engaged in spirit combat with a potential victim? So what if a PC finds a bound spirit/ghost they would like to capture/command/dominate/whatever under an existing binding. Is there a way to break the binding, dominate/command the spirit/ghost and place them/it into a binding enchantment the PC's have? Similar to transferring the Growler spirit but hopefully gaining something besides a self healing cloak?

 

[David Scott]

5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

  Hide contents

With the big dog situation it cannot hear or sense anything if its bound so none of its abilities are transferred and all one would get is a cloak that might heal itself? A bit of a let-down after some illusions of PC grandeur for a cool cloak that could help the sense, track and speak some new languages?

So how do ghost/spirits sense people and attack them if they are bond to an object, a body or area and have no spells, how can they talk or communicate while they are engaged in spirit combat with a potential victim? So what if a PC finds a bound spirit/ghost they would like to capture/command/dominate/whatever under an existing binding. Is there a way to break the binding, dominate/command the spirit/ghost and place them/it into a binding enchantment the PC's have? Similar to transferring the Growler spirit but hopefully gaining something besides a self healing cloak?

There are two different types of binding going on here:

• Binding Enchantment holds the entity within the prepared object.
• Create Ghost attaches the entity to an area / object externally.

The former you can move between bindings with the command/control/dominate spell. You can even steal other people's bound spirits. You can also bind spirits into specially prepared animals.

The later is more complex as it would need a type of binding not yet documented. However, for MGF I'd allow an adventurer to do it if they can explain how it works. There is scope to create your own rune magic and sorcery. It would be straightforward to do it via sorcery. But as I said earlier a competent shaman could do this.

[Erol of Backford]

Joerg wrote in the Why does Argrath wipe out the Telmori? thread: It is a known fact that there was a massacre against the Telmori in 1627. Argrath Saga (not the most reliable source) states that Argrath's men took werewolf skins and inherited their powers. For a military unit you need about 1000 people on foot, with that equipment.

Why not take Black Growler's powers just like the Polar Bear being bound into the berserkers skin-cloak. Redeye as well... what fun.

I'm going back to being able to bind its spirit. YGMV

[French Desperate WindChild]

On 3/16/2023 at 4:44 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Joerg wrote in the Why does Argrath wipe out the Telmori? thread: It is a known fact that there was a massacre against the Telmori in 1627. Argrath Saga (not the most reliable source) states that Argrath's men took werewolf skins and inherited their powers. For a military unit you need about 1000 people on foot, with that equipment.

Why not take Black Growler's powers just like the Polar Bear being bound into the berserkers skin-cloak. Redeye as well... what fun.

I'm going back to being able to bind its spirit. YGMV

Note there is a big difference between Harreck and your situation :

the fight with the bear was not in the mundane world. So in my opinion, when you « kill » the dog in mundane world you must follow the rules of the mundane world: if you don’t provide a body with eyes the spirit cannot see (of course with command it to leave the enchantment, do the job then go back to the enchantment, the spirit can « see » outside the enchantment)

however in my glorantha there are solution

1) you kill the dog, the spirit goes back to hell, you keep the skin. Then you heroquest to hell, you find the spirit, bargain fight anything with it And there is some magical effect

2) you kill the dog, capture the spirit with the mundane restriction . Then you heroquest to hell, find the lord of the spirit, fight bargain seduce oath anything and now the spirit is bounded to you in any way you want.

 

in all cases I agree with you: any « alliance » generates mutual oath (drink flesh blood, kill enemy of blabla, sacrifice pow, … ) and passion

more powerful is the gain for the adventure more passions (number and %)  the adventurer change (at the end of the day, that is a kind of possession and the. You don’t recognize who is who, like Harreck and the bear)