Shamen as part of civilised cultures?

[davecake]

12 hours ago, Joerg said:

Mainly in how they approach them magically and what senses and magical means they use to perceive them. (Even a theist's identification with a mythical entity may be based on incomplete or even faulty understanding.)

Yes. 
though the details here are constantly blurred at the edges. 
 

12 hours ago, Joerg said:

During the Hero Wars / HeroQuest 1 era, Greg meant to make the Three Different Otherworlds and how the difference between them gets overcome a major element of the Hero Wars, but that somehow failed to excite the majority of the fans

 

Personally, what really bothered me was the lack of providing a sensible way to deal with the many examples of traditions that already blurred those edges. It was difficult enough to deal with dividing all traditions into three rigid categories, but I hated the idea that existing, perfectly functional appearing traditions that had been in Glorantha for decades (eg Waha) needed be sort of split down the middle to maintain the Three Worlds model. If this was the intentional creation of a newly perceived problem so that it’s solution could be a plot element, that does not endear it to me any more.

I have always found the various traditions that cross the approaches (Waha, Aldrya, Kygor Litor, Black Arkat, Lhankor Mhy, Irripi Ontor, Dormal, Earth Witch,Jakaleel,  Pamalt, etc) to be a strength of the setting, refusing to make universal rules for magic and spirituality. I find the (admittedly not huge) extent to which it has been toned back from particularly the HQ2 era (eg the removal of spirit capture tradition from Odayla, Kolat downgraded from a rich shamanic tradition to a dull spirit cult, Storm Bull explicitly being a mixed tradition) a bit disappointing, but it might yet be reversed. 

 

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, davecake said:

Personally, what really bothered me was the lack of providing a sensible way to deal with the many examples of traditions that already blurred those edges. It was difficult enough to deal with dividing all traditions into three rigid categories, but I hated the idea that existing, perfectly functional appearing traditions that had been in Glorantha for decades (eg Waha) needed be sort of split down the middle to maintain the Three Worlds model. If this was the intentional creation of a newly perceived problem so that it’s solution could be a plot element, that does not endear it to me any more.

I talked about that with Greg, and he told me that the mixed traditions were perfectly workable, with entities from both sides of the mix part of their cult array.

The misapplied mention of misapplied worship in the Hero Wars era was a badly communicated idea.

 

1 hour ago, davecake said:

I have always found the various traditions that cross the approaches (Waha, Aldrya, Kygor Litor, Black Arkat, Lhankor Mhy, Irripi Ontor, Dormal, Earth Witch,Jakaleel,  Pamalt, etc) to be a strength of the setting, refusing to make universal rules for magic and spirituality. I find the (admittedly not huge) extent to which it has been toned back from particularly the HQ2 era (eg the removal of spirit capture tradition from Odayla, Kolat downgraded from a rich shamanic tradition to a dull spirit cult, Storm Bull explicitly being a mixed tradition) a bit disappointing, but it might yet be reversed. 

Tossing out HQG with the trademark bathwater was a regrettable decision, with the Questworlds SRD taking a long time to get right, and probably little to no capacity to update older material for return to pdf/print (if only PoD). The loss of the back catalog in the Vault - however much canon may have changed - just because of the wrong trademark should not have happened, at least some digital version should have remained. If only to explain widespread fan disagreement with changes to canon.