Eff Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said: Sorry guys, but December 25th was the festal day of Sol Invictus. Since the mid-8th century there has been some discussion as to whether Christianity appropriated it, but no actual evidence for it. There is an huge problem with 25th as Jesus' birthday as recorded in the Gospels, though. No shepherds in their right minds 'abide in the fields' with their flocks in late December in the Judean hills. Yes. My understanding of it is that December 25th arises from a belief in folk Judaism at the time that prophets died on the day of their conception, that the Crucifixion was believed among early Christians to have taken place on March 25th (or as they might have put it, six days before the kalends of Aprilis), and therefore that Jesus would have to have been born nine months later on December 25th, all of this somewhat separately from the tradition of the shepherds with their flock recorded in the Gospel of Luke. But I'll be damned if I could cite sources on that without a lot of work. (On top of all of this, December 25th is around when days begin to noticeably lengthen again after the winter solstice, so it's unsurprising that festivals like Saturnalia, the feast of Sol Invictus, Christmas, and the Germanic Yule all ended up taking place close to that date.) 1 Quote Though a Lunar through and through, she is also a human being. "I just read an article in The Economist by a guy who was riding around with the Sartar rebels, I mean Taliban," -Greg Stafford, January 7th, 2010 Eight Arms and the Mask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius West Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 On 11/18/2022 at 1:27 AM, Ali the Helering said: Sorry guys, but December 25th was the festal day of Sol Invictus. Since the mid-8th century there has been some discussion as to whether Christianity appropriated it, but no actual evidence for it. Agreed. It was also Saturnalia, Dong Zhi, Toji, Shab-e Yalda, Yule, etc. The fact is, the Winter Solstice is always going to be celebrated by someone with the nouse to know when it is. On 11/18/2022 at 1:27 AM, Ali the Helering said: There is an huge problem with 25th as Jesus' birthday as recorded in the Gospels, though. No shepherds in their right minds 'abide in the fields' with their flocks in late December in the Judean hills. Jesus' birthday, if myths are anything to go by falls around Pesach which is March/April. In all likelihood we should be celebrating the birth of Jesus on 1st April, no jokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali the Helering Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Darius West said: Agreed. It was also Saturnalia, Dong Zhi, Toji, Shab-e Yalda, Yule, etc. The fact is, the Winter Solstice is always going to be celebrated by someone with the nouse to know when it is. Jesus' birthday, if myths are anything to go by falls around Pesach which is March/April. In all likelihood we should be celebrating the birth of Jesus on 1st April, no jokes. Absolutely. I would still be a grumpy Scrooge type, however. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonwolf8 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 Getting back to the Good Shepard topic I found this blog by Steven Posch over on witchesandpagans.com from Dec. 18, 2022 The Ram-Bearing god. "As Pausanias tells it, the god Hermes once saved the city of Tanagra, in Boeotia, from a pandemic. At the time, the plague raged all around the city, and the Tanagrans feared it was only a matter of time until it came to their doorsteps as well. Then Hermes, that ever-young god, was seen walking the circuit of the city's walls, bearing a ram on his shoulders. Not one Tanagran died of plague. Ever after, Hermes Kriophóros (“the ram-bearer”) was accounted the city's patron, and on his festivals the handsomest youth in town would ceremonially walk the circuit of the city's walls, bearing a lamb on his shoulders. (Although Pausanias does not say so, presumably the lamb would have been borne ultimately to the god's temple, and there given to him in sacrifice.) In Classical art, Ram-Bearing Hermes became a common icon of divine protection. The motif continued into the Christian centuries and, indeed, to this very day." So in Gloranthan terms we have a syncretization/subcult of Voriof-Issaries versus Maila. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali the Helering Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 6 hours ago, moonwolf8 said: In Classical art, Ram-Bearing Hermes became a common icon of divine protection. The motif continued into the Christian centuries and, indeed, to this very day." Indeed. That is why Jesus used it when talking - it was a well known motif around the Eastern Med. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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