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new to basic roleplaying


heathd666

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i have not actually ran a session using the rules yet but i ran some mock combat rounds to see how they flow and how it worked and it seems to be a very time consuming process. i have played in some call of cthulhu games but mostly convention games. i really like the way BGB uses experience as you use it and suceed to get better at it and how there are no levels. some back ground from me is that i am coming from running savage worlds for the past 3 or 4 years and before that palladium rpg's so forgive me if my questions or assumptions are wrong or misplaced. i realize that i should probably run some games or play some games with the rules as is but i have a constant itch to tinker with any game system i mess with. i apologize now for that.

1st question is about the hard cover BGB are they going to redo the pdf version of this so as to include the errata which from what i have read is included in the hardback BGB. (I hope i am using the BGB right and that its short for Big Golden Book) i am thinking of buying it from rpgnow but wanted to make sure it would include the errata.

2nd question i dont understand why have a weapon, parry, and dodge skill? why not use the weapon skill as a derived static defense target number. meaning that the attacker has to roll higher than this number to hit. for example hero1 has a short sword skill of 35% so to hit him villian 1 would have to roll a 35% or higher on percentile to hit. This is assuming that i read the rules correctly and that normally villian 1 would roll his weapon skill to attack and than hero 1 would roll his parry and the winner would be the one that had the greater level of succes. if im correct has anyone used this and is it feasible?

3rd question i really like the savage worlds way of a static number you roll against. im thinking of trying to adapt the combat system closer to that. for example the skill shield would add a plus to a characters derived static defense target number. the bigger the shield the higher the add to the static defense target number. what i am thinking for example, is that if a buckler adds 05% a round shield 15% etc to a static defense target number (see question 2 where i was using a weapon skill as the parry or a derived static defense target number) so if hero 1 was using a short sword and a small shield and had a weapon skill of 35% the buckler shield would add 05% so his defense skill total would be 40% and villian 1 and villian 2 attacked hero 1 the first attack would be against a target of 41% or higher and the second attack would be against a target of 11%. (this is considering i read the rules right and each additional attack versus a player is 30% less than the first one) if im correct on the rules it seems to me it would speed up combat greatly, has anyone tried this or something close to it?

4th question i see posts about runequest alot. what editions are compatable with the BGB or are close to it?

thanks in advance for your time

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i realize that i should probably run some games or play some games with the rules as is but i have a constant itch to tinker with any game system i mess with. i apologize now for that.

No need to apologize - a great many people tinker with BRP - it's very tinkerable. I'd recommend running a full game of it as written first, though, so you have a better understanding of why you're changing things and what the result will be.

1st question is about the hard cover BGB are they going to redo the pdf version of this so as to include the errata which from what i have read is included in the hardback BGB. (I hope i am using the BGB right and that its short for Big Golden Book) i am thinking of buying it from rpgnow but wanted to make sure it would include the errata.
The ways of Chaosium are inscrutable even to their most loyal supporters, I'm afraid.

2nd question i dont understand why have a weapon, parry, and dodge skill? why not use the weapon skill as a derived static defense target number.
Well, speaking for me and my group - because static defenses are b-o-r-i-n-g! To each their own, of course. ;)

meaning that the attacker has to roll higher than this number to hit. for example hero1 has a short sword skill of 35% so to hit him villian 1 would have to roll a 35% or higher on percentile to hit.
Firstly, BRP is, at its heart, a roll-under system. Rolling higher than the target number for attacks and lower than the target number to resolve other skills will be counter-intuitive, at best. Secondly, the attacker's weapon skill doesn't seem to factor into your equation. Does this mean someone with a low skill needs to roll over 35% just the same as someone with a high skill?

4th question i see posts about runequest alot. what editions are compatable with the BGB or are close to it?

RQ3 (written by Chaosium but published by Avalon Hill) is probably the most compatible with BRP Big Gold Book, but all versions, including the Mongoose versions, are generally compatible. RQ2 might be the most interesting for you, because it had a static defense, if I recall.

There are some people working on a fan project re-creation of RQ2. Someone will come along sooner or later and give you a link to that, I'm sure.

"Tell me what you found, not what you lost" Mesopotamian proverb

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Welcome to BRP!

I'm quite new to this forum myself, but I have been using the BRP system on and off since 1984 (yep!), and it's one of my favourite systems. I've played many other systems, but White Wolf's Storyteller system (World of Darkness, Abberant etc) has been the main competition for me, because it is so different to BRP. Recently I played Savage Worlds (last 2-3 years) but the shine wore off (really, a d4 skill means you have a 25% chance of Fumble each time, that's just wrong!). The BRP system is much more intuitive, and can do most things you can do with SW anyway. My only concern is that Savage World's Edges were really great, I wouldn't mind at least Background Edges for BRP, but it's really a matter of taste. Most of the other Edges can be portrayed with Skills and just plain Background info.

Your best bet is to play the BRP system 'as is' before you tinker, but there's heaps of room for tinkering. The basic principle is that everything is expressed as a %, so rolling lower is intuitive, not higher as it's illogical and it also breaks the system.

The gritty aspects of combat are a strength I feel, but if you purchase Mongoose's RQ2 there's some ideas on cinematic combat in there for you. If you really want to have static Defence scores then perhaps half of the % for Parry/Shield would do the trick. The main issue for me is that you'ld get that old SW issue where people just can't seem to hurt opponents, which for me sometimes dragged combat on rather than made it quicker. After playing SW and returning to BRP I find the randomness of the Defence actions (Dodge, Parry) to provide alot of uncertainity in battles and make it much more interesting - making them static makes this such a different game, and you may be a little disappointed.

RQ3 is an old Chaosium product I love, but I'ld recommend buying the BRP BGB and MRQ2 and have a look at what is common and what is different with them, they have similar mechanics with a couple of noticeable differences here and there. MRQ2 is a great purchase for running a fantasy setting, whereas BRP BGB is great as it's the core rulebook which you can hang different genres from.

Someone with a little more 'rules knowledge' will probably answer your questions better, but I'ld recommend not trying to make this system too much like SW, they're like chalk and cheese, and you'll be disappointed in the end.

This is a great system, I hope you have fun with it

cheers

Edited by Mankcam

" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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My problem with a static defence is that it takes a lot of tension and uncertainty

out of the combat by making it far more predictable. Since I am definitely on the

simulationist side of gaming, I very much prefer a more realistic approach, where

even the best swordsman can misread his much weaker opponent's tactics (e.g.

fumble his parry) and can be killed by a mere beginner, because this is what oc-

casionally happened in the real world, too - and it gives even seasoned veterans

a reason to think twice before they start a fight.

But, well, this is just a matter of taste.

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

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thanks for the replies

i really do like the edges and hindrances of savage worlds and i think ill definitly miss it. i also really enjoyd the spells and the trappings but im not sure it would work with BGB. im not sure i will be able to run a BRP game anytime soon as my current group is running with 8 to 9 people and to be honest i think that combat would take a very looong time as is but i may try to run it at my local gaming stores next game day just with less people.

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Hello heathd666, and welcome to the wonderful worlds of BRP! :)

A few RuneQuest acronyms which might come in handy: the original Chaosium RQ1 and RQ2 are the first version of the system, and BRP was derived from them. RQ3 was an updated version. Mongoose also put out two versions of RuneQuest, MRQ1 and MRQ2. Of all of these, RQ3 is probably the most compatible with BRP. For a comprehensive overview, head over to Pete Maranci's site.

On the subject of static defence, RQ2 did have such a feature, although it was separate from weapon attack and parry. It was dropped in RQ3, and dodge was introduced. I actually quite like the defence rule, but it requires extra mental arithmetic on the part of the referee.

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Static defence is significantly different active. It's perfectly possible to use it in BRP but it makes a massive difference. At heart, static defence is better against hordes than active. Also static defence is a linear modifier where as active defence isn't.

For example, imagine 75% attack vs 75% parry. At its simplest, to cause damage the attacker needs to make their roll while the defender needs to fail theirs. That means you have 75%*75% = 19% of hitting and doing damage. So to simulate that you need a modifier of -56%. On the other hand, 75% vs 50% is 38% which is a modifier of -37. Trying to convert by eye is basically impossible. As a final example, 50% attack vs 75% parry is 13% chance of success.

The other thing to realise is that it often takes as long to calculate modifiers as it does to simply roll extra dice. In SW it's simple enough as you are comparing against a single digit target number while in BRP you might end up having a roll with multiplication as well as then subtracting a defence value.

All in all, static defence values can be used but they don't go with the grain of the system.

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Static Defenses have two drawbacks in a system like BRP.

First off, as others have siad, it takes some of the exictement out of things. One guy hits, and then rolls damage.

The second thing is that combat in BRP is much deadlier than in most "static defense" games. Rather that just seeing HPs whittle away, characters in BRP can be seriously wounded, mained or even killed from a single hit! The active defense roll gives the defender some way to avoid disaster.

Imagine how much "fun" it would be to play with a static defense when the GM rolls a good attack roll and tells you that your character is dead, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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Heath666

It's no biggie to port SW Edges over - I've done it from my old SW fantasy setting game into BRP. Most of the Edges are portrayed by Skills ( eg: a +20% to a certain skill(s) during character creation) or Narrative. However, it's not hard to bring others over. For example, one character had a "Level-Headed" Edge which gave him an Initiative advantage in Sw, so he gained a -1 SR for my BRP setting (which used the Strike Rank Initiative option), this could easily be portrayed as a bonus to DEX for purposes of Initiative in the core BRP initiative session, for instance.

Porting over Powers was also no biggie. as many spells in RQ had equivilent in SW. For a quick conversion you could just give a standard mechanic of Magnitude 1 (1 Power Point cost) equals either a +/- 10%, or a +/- 2 modifier, or a +/- 1d6 Attribute/ Damage. It's roughly equivilent to the scale used for BRP Magic or RQ Common Magic. With that you could translate most SW Powers across, but you'll find that most SW Powers have equivilents with BRP/RQ Magic.

Combat doesn't drag on much longer than SW, if at all actually. SW says it's FFF, and it sometimes is, but at other times you get stuck due to opponents having high Parry or Toughness scores, so the combat drags until some manuveres or Tricks are used. Not really any different with BRP, using circumstanial modifiers takes the place of Tricks, and can be very cinematic. Actually as BRP is a bit more brutal, I found many combat sessions were over quicker than anticipated. MRQ2 has some NPC and Underling rules to speed up combat as well if you like a more pulpy feel, akin to PCs being Wild Cards in SW.

Truthfully I prefer BRP/RQ over SW, but it's a matter of choice. I've had fun with both, it's sometimes up to what your troupe will play really. My troupe liked SW for a while, but the older members really enjoyed returning to BRP again. There is a reason this system has lasted so long, and that's because it's intuitive and just plain fun to play.

Hope you get the chance to give it a couple of sessions!

Edited by Mankcam

" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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well i have talked a couple of my players into playing a one shot game of BRP. but i have a couple of questions.

i believe i understand the basis of the system its simply percentage rolls with modifiers for situations. someone wants to climb a cliff face they make a climb roll and get under their skill chance. modifiers are for proper gear say +20% to skill roll its raining while you are attempting to climb -20% to skill roll and so on.

combat - is simply one person rolls his weapon attack skill the other decides to parry or dodge and rolls his. if both succeed it goes to see who succeded the most is the winner. looking through the book i see that there are rules for the attack matrix like success versus fumble but at its basic it just adds more damage

correct?

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well i have talked a couple of my players into playing a one shot game of BRP. but i have a couple of questions.

i believe i understand the basis of the system its simply percentage rolls with modifiers for situations. someone wants to climb a cliff face they make a climb roll and get under their skill chance. modifiers are for proper gear say +20% to skill roll its raining while you are attempting to climb -20% to skill roll and so on.

Basically yes. You can also make tasks easy (twice the normal chance of success) or hard (half the normal chance).

combat - is simply one person rolls his weapon attack skill the other decides to parry or dodge and rolls his. if both succeed it goes to see who succeeded the most is the winner. looking through the book i see that there are rules for the attack matrix like success versus fumble but at its basic it just adds more damage

correct?

If I'm understanding you correctly then no. If both parties succeed in a combat roll then the victory goes to the person with the best level of success: special beats normal, critical beats special. If both levels of success are the same (normal v normal etc.) then the defender wins.

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There's many more people in this forum who know the rules much better than me (many of them are game designers/publishers), and they'll certainly clarify any rules questions with a fair degree of accuracy.

I recommend you copy/print the Appendices section of BRP so you can have most of the tables at your fingertips, but they're only for occasional reference. Initially you'll be checking the Skill Matrix and the Skill Results tables a little bit, but after a session or two you probably won't need to check them, as the game can practically run itself without constant references.

The main reason I replied to your thread was that SW was the last system I played before returning to BRP, so I'm aware of what your concerns are in regards to slowing combat down with an older system such as BRP. Actually after returning to BRP from SW I have found BRP to be just as cinematic at times.

The Tricks rules in SW highlights certainly the use of using your wits to find advantages in combat, particularly environmental advantages. Check out BRP situational modifiers (sorry, I don't have the book with me to direct you to the page number), and decide whether the PCs can cause any of these as a free, partial or full action, and you've pretty much got a version of SW Tricks.

You can do all the same things in combat really, such as Ganging Up, Fighting From Behind, Ambush, etc so the PCs should approach combat the same way as they did in SW, but with a little more caution: they are more likely to get seriously hurt.

Combat won't drag for long if you are doing this, and if you are using the standard rules of Total Body Hit Points. If you want to emulate 'fodder' opponents, so the PCs feel they are like SW Wild Cards then there's some good rules on this in MRQ2. Without having MRQ2 a quick house rule would be to make less important opponents make Stamina rolls if they receive a Major Wound, and simply deem them as incapacitated at that point, unable to take any more offensive actions (which is often the case). I'm not sure if I would push this all that strongly, only if your troupe wants to port over characters from a SW setting to use with BRP. There may be an official option for something like this in BRP, but again, I haven't got my book with me to check.

I actually prefer a more 'crunchy' combat scene, so my troupe plays using concepts from the old RQ3; these are presented as options in BRP (Strike Ranks, Limb Hit Locations). There's something fun about rolling the d20 hit location to see where you get your opponent, it feels much more 'visceral', and lends itself for a very tactile and brutal game, perfect for an ancient or dark ages setting. It runs a little slower, but it's certainly not slow like other old-school systems (eg D&D, Rolemaster etc), as characters do not have seemingly unlimited Hit Points, and combat can be quite devastating to even experienced characters. It forces the players to think of ways to get the advantage in every combat scene, although you can create 'Tanks' just like in any game (but they too need to be wary...).

In any case, this system can be fun to play for either pulp action, investigation, or gritty combat settings, it is quite versatile. I have explored other systems over the years, but often find myself back in the BRP rules at some stage as it's core rules are very logical and simple.

I hope your one-shot goes down well, make sure it's full of action and you can't go wrong

" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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