Scornado Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 The rules seem silent on this. Can a human communicate with a spirit if the human does not have Spiritspeech as a skill? Clearly they can with those spirits that provide Spirit Magic spells but I think that's a special case - a simple communication to specifically perform the magic that is learnt as part of learning the spell. Otherwise, if a human speaks in a language that the spirit understands (spirits with INT may know such languages) then I presume the spirit can understand the human. Is that reasonable? Can the spirit speak back so it is audible? Less plausible I suggest. Can the spirit "get inside the human's head and impart their message that way, assuming they share a language? What if there is no shared language? I'm happy to wing this but if there's a rule I missed then I'd be pleased to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squaredeal Sten Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 (edited) 12 hours ago, Scornado said: The rules seem silent on this. Can a human communicate with a spirit if the human does not have Spiritspeech as a skill? Clearly they can with those spirits that provide Spirit Magic spells but I think that's a special case - a simple communication to specifically perform the magic that is learnt as part of learning the spell. Otherwise, if a human speaks in a language that the spirit understands (spirits with INT may know such languages) then I presume the spirit can understand the human. Is that reasonable? Can the spirit speak back so it is audible? Less plausible I suggest. Can the spirit "get inside the human's head and impart their message that way, assuming they share a language? What if there is no shared language? I'm happy to wing this but if there's a rule I missed then I'd be pleased to learn. There is no rule you missed. The answers are really up to you as a GM. But I wrote an adventure in which a ghost communicates in dreams, where it speaks an understandable language, probably Heortling (Sartarite) because in life it was a Sartarite and the person dreaming is likely to be. There is some ambiguity: it may be a god sent dream. But if I were running it for a character wth a different native tongue, I would adapt for it to be understood anyway. Maybe in Tradetalk. I think it's right to do things like that where necessary to your adventure. In my opinion spirit speech is most useful (A) in the spirit world, where a shaman has to bargain wth. or interrogate a spirit. (B) To allow a shaman in the Middle World to speak to any spirit that materializes. Though that spirit does not have to answer. Edited May 7 by Squaredeal Sten Spelling / typing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalph Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 I'm thinking Spiritspeech is a language spoken by many spirits that are not obviously part of another culture or pantheon. In addition, it bears some resemblance to Pamaltela languages. How this arose is probably due to the Gods War. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 13 hours ago, Scornado said: The rules seem silent on this. Can a human communicate with a spirit if the human does not have Spiritspeech as a skill? Yes, if the spirit has INT, then they likely have their former language (RQG 365). If they are cult spirits, then they likely have an appropriate magical language (Stormspeech, Firespeech, etc) 13 hours ago, Scornado said: Clearly they can with those spirits that provide Spirit Magic spells but I think that's a special case - a simple communication to specifically perform the magic that is learnt as part of learning the spell. When you learn a spirit magic spell, there is a teacher who is the intermediary. For bound spirits it's mental communication per RQG 249 (so no language is involved). 13 hours ago, Scornado said: Otherwise, if a human speaks in a language that the spirit understands (spirits with INT may know such languages) then I presume the spirit can understand the human. Is that reasonable? Can the spirit speak back so it is audible? Less plausible I suggest. Can the spirit "get inside the human's head and impart their message that way, assuming they share a language? see above 13 hours ago, Scornado said: What if there is no shared language? They can't communicate. Spiritspeech is a magical language available to shaman and their assistants, Daka Fal, Jakaleel and the Seven Mothers (via Jakaleel). It's very specialist, showing why shaman are the master of spirits. I've always imagined it like Makaton, with its symbols, signs and speech geared towards the spirit world. I always allow any adventurer who has Discorporated and encountered spirits to receive a free skill check on spiritspeech. I don't allow it for Middle World spirit combat. Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radmonger Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 The non-canon way I run it is slightly different; it is by default possible to directly mentally communicate with a disembodied spirit while you yourself are disembodied. A rating in spiritspeech simply allows you to control what you are communicating. And so lie, omit information, or use communication skills like orate. It also allows communicating with a visible spirit while embodied. The other elemental languages like firespeech work the same way; they are less natural languages than restrictions placed on top of the innate ability of any two otherside entities to communicate, if the myth they are sharing requires them to do so. If you meet Orlanth at a High Holy day ceremony, you will find yourself speaking apparently fluent Stormspech. But if you skill rating is poor, you will have little control over what you say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scornado Posted May 7 Author Share Posted May 7 7 hours ago, David Scott said: 21 hours ago, Scornado said: Otherwise, if a human speaks in a language that the spirit understands (spirits with INT may know such languages) then I presume the spirit can understand the human. Is that reasonable? Can the spirit speak back so it is audible? Less plausible I suggest. Can the spirit "get inside the human's head and impart their message that way, assuming they share a language? see above <snip> I've always imagined it like Makaton, with its symbols, signs and speech geared towards the spirit world. Well I've now learnt what Makaton is, thanks. Does not answer whether a spirit can generate sound though: I think the answer must generally be no, though some by their nature could, for example a spirit of air could make words if it wanted to. I am going for mental communication intiated by the spirit in a common language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 (edited) 22 hours ago, Scornado said: Does not answer whether a spirit can generate sound though: I think the answer must generally be no, though some by their nature could, for example a spirit of air could make words if it wanted to. I am going for mental communication intiated by the spirit in a common language. The spirit world isn't silent - spirits make spirit noise that to discorporated humans is perceived as sound. Spirit creatures make spirit creature sounds - so spirit horses make galloping and neighing sounds. River horse is accompanied by the sound of rushing water and it makes watery neighing and snorting sounds that sound like splashing puddles. Edited May 8 by David Scott 1 Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 On 5/6/2024 at 10:05 PM, Scornado said: Can a human communicate with a spirit if the human does not have Spiritspeech as a skill? Not if the human doesn't have a language that the spirit speaks. Some spirits retain their old language skills, some just use Spiritspeech. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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