Revived chaos god spells

[theconfusingeel]

So i was reading this, and a section caught my attention "Some of the mightiest Chaos entities cannot be contacted within Time, at least yet – Ragnaglar, Wakboth, Kajabor, and Jotimam.", this, and the fact that wakboth is mentioned as reappearing in KOS makes it seem like reviving these gods is possible.

If that were to happen, what kind of spells could they provide to their followers? Kajabor would pprobably provide some spells to turn things into nothingness, but what about the other gods?

[Akhôrahil]

The keywords for Ragnaglar seem like they might be storm, sex, goats, madness.

[Ynneadwraith]

What sort of spells does Sedenya give?

#HailArgrath

[theconfusingeel]

5 minutes ago, Ynneadwraith said:

What sort of spells does Sedenya give?

#HailArgrath

In this thread we support the red goddess and the boys in the lunar army, you are kindly asked to leave😠

[Ynneadwraith]

8 minutes ago, theconfusingeel said:

In this thread we support the red goddess and the boys in the lunar army, you are kindly asked to leave😠

I do as well (by and large), just couldn't resist the cheap shot 😉 

[Squaredeal Sten]

44 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

The keywords for Ragnaglar seem like they might be storm, sex, goats, madness.

So summon broo, and madness?

I'm not sure about the storm thing.  Just because he's Orlanth's brother doesn't necessarily give him the air rune.  What's the mythology there?

 

 

Edited May 20 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling / typing

[Darius West]

Is someone suggesting Sedenya isn't a revived Chaos deity?  What are her Runes after all?

#HailArgrath

Edited May 20 by Darius West

[Akhôrahil]

5 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

So summon broo, and madness?

I'm not sure about the storm thing.  Just because he's Orlanth's brother doesn't necessarily hive him the air rune.  What's the mythology there?

The rest of them were storm gods? Humakt presumably lost his storm powers only when he severed himself from his kin? And even then is still associated with the winds, as in North War Wind. It could be minor or even lost, though.

I could easily see Command Goat, Madness, and Priapism.

Edited May 20 by Akhôrahil

[Ynneadwraith]

1 minute ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

I'm not sure about the storm thing.  Just because he's Orlanth's brother doesn't necessarily hive him the air rune.  What's the mythology there?

I don't know, as a direct son/fragment of Umath I'd expect at least a little Storm in him.

It might be a little less canon-friendly, but I'd like to see a little speculation in the cult spells of the Chaos Gods. Something that hints at something that we don't already know about them.

For instance, you could play into the whole 'Orlanth the Usurper' narrative by giving Ragnaglar a smidgeon of twisted Rex magic. Just the slightest of hints that the rightful heir was Ragnaglar after all, before everything went to pot...

[Akhôrahil]

With Ragnaglar in particular, we know Ralzakark is trying to bring him back (in some way or the other) by God-Forming him, and hence being able to father the Devil again.

I'm not at all sure the Devil can be successfully worshiped.

Edited May 20 by Akhôrahil

[Squaredeal Sten]

4 minutes ago, Ynneadwraith said:

I don't know, as a direct son/fragment of Umath I'd expect at least a little Storm in him.

It might be a little less canon-friendly, but I'd like to see a little speculation in the cult spells of the Chaos Gods. Something that hints at something that we don't already know about them.

For instance, you could play into the whole 'Orlanth the Usurper' narrative by giving Ragnaglar a smidgeon of twisted Rex magic. Just the slightest of hints that the rightful heir was Ragnaglar after all, before everything went to pot...

OK, yes, it's in Well of Daliath: "parts of Umath".  So Ragnaglar will have the air rune.  How about summon small air Elemental?  Not large because Ragnaglar doesn't own the air rune.  Maybe just small because he has spent all of Time dead, and that will take something out of him.

[Ynneadwraith]

11 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Maybe just small because he has spent all of Time dead, and that will take something out of him.

That's an interesting thought. If he was dead and is now resurrected, how might that change the myths (and thus magic) you could gain from him? The Ragnaglar you bring back isn't quite the Ragnaglar you killed before.

[mfbrandi]

7 minutes ago, Ynneadwraith said:

I don't know, as a direct son/fragment of Umath I’d expect at least a little Storm in him.

Definitely. Anything else would be coyness and self-deceit, no?

What is Storm but the opener of Voids and the bringer of Death? Storm is intimately connected with Chaos and the end of things. If you want to be Marduk, you have to be Tiamat, too, right?

But sometimes we just want to stick our fingers in our ears and go ‘la la la, not listening!’

[mfbrandi]

7 minutes ago, Ynneadwraith said:

The Ragnaglar you bring back isn't quite the Ragnaglar you killed before.

You can’t step in the same chaos god twice?

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, theconfusingeel said:

Jotimam … what kind of spells could they provide to their followers?

I am torn:

• Anything — On the one hand, anything (and any spell) might come from the Void. Everything did.
• Nothing — But on the other hand, Jotimam seems pretty abstract
  — an absence that can never truly be filled
  — so maybe it provides no magic. It is just where we all end up.

Obviously, I am not really torn.
Nothing.
No spells.
Magic comes from misapprehension.

[Ynneadwraith]

6 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

You can’t step in the same chaos god twice?

Well whatever it is you've stepped in you should brush it off before you come inside. You'll ruin the carpets...

15 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

What is Storm but the opener of Voids and the bringer of Death? Storm is intimately connected with Chaos and the end of things. If you want to be Marduk, you have to be Tiamat, too, right?

But sometimes we just want to stick our fingers in our ears and go ‘la la la, not listening!’

Certainly fits with my personal view on Gloranthan theistic cosmology: that all gods go through a 'chaotic' phase as part of their creation, before they are rehabilitated and incorporated into the world. This happened to the gods of Storm during the Lesser Darkness, and the Chaos gods were going through this process during the Greater Darkness before it was cut short. Or perhaps Storm were the first to go through this process, and the others were less traumatic.

To return a little closer to the original question, I'd posit that Kajabor cultists should have some form of memory altering magic. Something to make someone forget something ever existed, as the first stage of total and utter annihilation. Lots of interesting narrative potential with that one...

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, theconfusingeel said:

If that were to happen, what kind of spells could they provide to their followers?

TAKE ONE: Is magic shaped by the god or by the followers, by the cult? Maybe the key question is “what would the followers of these gods be like?” As below, so we zap.

TAKE TWO: If there are chaos gods which are entities (as opposed to ideas) and which are truly from the outside, do they work like run-of-the-mill cosmic gods? Are they worship powered? Do they function as magic pumps, enabling us to spray our foes with all kinds of nastiness? Are they just power sinks, taking what we offer them permanently out of play? If you worship a truly alien thing and expect it to behave like a deified monarch or ancestor, are you making a terrible mistake — not morally (everyone has an opinion about that) but purely practically?

[theconfusingeel]

45 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

The keywords for Ragnaglar seem like they might be storm, sex, goats, madness.

Yeah Ragnaglar is pretty hard, his traits don't really give us a good idea of what his powers and feats might be. Jotimam is even worse cause I think there's next to no info on him.

I thought about it for a bit and here's a few ideas for all of them:

Wakboth
He represents the corrupting side of chaos, the part that makes things evil and "wrong". He is also one of the gods called the devil and as such a kind of leader for chaos.
So for rune spells he could have:
-chaos feature
-Defile(increases chaos in an area. I can imagine a cultist casting this on a river to spread chaos to the people who live along it)
-form chaos army(summons all chaos creatures within an area and makes follow the caster. Thiswould only be available tio rune priests/lords)
-corrupt(a spell similar to defile but targeting an individual creature, turning it chaotic. Increases their chaos rune and makes them support the forces of chaos )
He would also probably gain spells from all other chaos cults, with the exception of the red goddess I'd say.

Kajabor
He's the void aspect of chaos and the other god called the devil and also the great fear.
-disintegrate(removes something from existence, probably scales with the thing's SIZ)
-fear
-form chaos army

Ragnaglar
Leader of the unholy trio, former king of the broo, the mad god
-madness
-command broo
-chaos feature
-chaos spawn

Jotimam
Isn't he the pit left after the spike exploded? Let's go with that.
-impede law(the spike represents law in glorantha, so jotimam would disrupt it I think)
-create hole in reality(makes a hole that leads to the void outside of glorantha, chaos things might come out of it or it might swallow up things caught in it)

[mfbrandi]

5 minutes ago, Ynneadwraith said:

To return a little closer to the original question, I’d posit that Kajabor cultists should have some form of memory altering magic. Something to make someone forget something ever existed, as the first stage of total and utter annihilation.

Kajabor as memory hole.

Could be the first stage — forgetting what is, making it impossible for anyone to attribute any effect to that cause. You slap someone about the face, but they still cannot see you: “must have been a bit of wood carried on the wind.”

Could be the last stage — forgetting what is gone: e.g. “Whose funeral is this? What are we doing here?” Adding insult to injury. And you will never rescue from Hell the person you have forgotten ever existed.

[Joerg]

Ragnaglar is about violence and madness, leaving death and destruction in his wake, including his own.

Wakboth has the power of corruption and annihilation. When Thed cultists summon a void to annihilate things in, that's just a minor effect compared to what Wakboth can do.

Does Wakboth provide any magic to his followers? He might grant chaos features and temporarily continued existence in his presence. Lay worship of the Crimson Bat might be a cushy deal compared to this. Otherwise, he is a devourer of reality, just like Kajabor.

Returning Kajabor might be weird - his substance is part of Creation now, a main source of stuff for Arachne Solara's web. His presence or power might be to selectively wither and age targeted portions of Creation.

Jotimam may already have returned to the world, reflected by the Red Moon. At least that would handily explain the weekly tides.

[mfbrandi]

Of course, it is all academic until you work out how to create functioning cults for these “missing” and/or “dead” chaos “gods”. How do you resurrect the Devil? Do you have a lever big enough to shift the Block? Perhaps all you have to do is nuke the moon.

[Ynneadwraith]

Just now, mfbrandi said:

Perhaps all you have to do is nuke the moon.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Sink the moon, raise the block...

Ralzakark is Argrath.

[mfbrandi]

9 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Returning Kajabor might be weird — his substance is part of Creation now

Of course, this has been said of Dubya, too. Duck–rabbit?

Unpicking whichever version of the Devil from the world undoes time and returns us to the hell of the Gods War? Or, you know, refusal to accept Chaos as “part of the world” is what returns us to the hell of the war of all against all? (Metaphors, eh? Can’t live with ’em, can’t live without ’em.)

[mfbrandi]

6 minutes ago, Ynneadwraith said:

Ralzakark is Argrath.

Well both of these things have been said before:

• Argrath = Arkat
• Arkat = Ralzakark

The transitivity of identity does the rest.

Spoiler

It is possible that one of those things was only said by me, of course. Possible, but unlikely.

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, mfbrandi said:

You can’t step in the same chaos god twice?

Not if it's the Gorpgod, at least. You won't have any legs left after the first try.