Starting amount of Sorcery spells?

[Chorpa]

I don't know if it's me, but I just cant find any suggestion on how many sorcery spells a new character would begin with in his Grimoire except. Been rereading the book several times now and I just can't find anything about it.

Only suggestion I can find is the Grimoire from the sample Order of the Black Serpent.

Is it just me being blind as usual?

Any help is appreciated!

[rust]

As I understand it, a new character has access to the grimoire of the

organization where he learned sorcery, so the number of spells avail-

able to him depends on the number of spells in the organization's gri-

moire and on the organization's rules for learning spells from its grimo-

ire - two setting specific factors, so in the end it is a referee decision.

The way I handle it, a character starts with three or four spells, and

has to serve the organization well to be allowed to learn any additio-

nal spells from its grimoire.

[Chorpa]

Yeah thats what I guessed.

Just felt a little more hands on info on creating different grimoires would have been nice. But I guess 4-6 spells would be ok for most grimoires.

[TrippyHippy]

Yeah thats what I guessed.

Just felt a little more hands on info on creating different grimoires would have been nice. But I guess 4-6 spells would be ok for most grimoires.

Yep, you really need a setting sourcebook to flesh out the spells found in respective Grimoires. Actually, they really ought to make a Big Book of Grimoires as a supplement.

Some alternative methods of determining number of starting spells found in each Grimoire:

1) Roll a D6.

2) Have the player write a description of the contents of his Grimoire in game world narrative. Then draw out the various key words and ascribe spells that fit the themes therein.

[Chaot]

Man, I just have to stop reading these boards. It would certainly make my wallet happier. I'm now curious as to how organizations are arranged...

[nclarke]

I found the MRQI Guilds, Factions and Cults and MRQII Empires books very useful for determining organisations.

For example in my Lankhmar game:

The House of Red Lanterns

The courtesans’ guild

The House of Red Lanterns is run by a small ‘council’ of madams that oversee the accounts and actions of the whores’ guild. The order is named on account of courtesans walking the streets with candle-lamps of red paper or lanterns with red glass, identifying their trade.

The House of Red Lanterns has strong ties to the Slayers’ Brotherhood. The murder of courtesans is punished in kind and almost all Red Lantern girls are protected by nearby Slayers or guild-employed pimps chosen by the madams. Unlike the Thieves’ Guild, the Red Lantern members do not frown on freelance competition, since the guild’s courtesans are generally a cut above the average streetwalker and receive the lion’s share of the attention and business on the cobblestone streets of sinful, decadent Lankhmar.

Characteristics

SIZ 10 (130 members)

INF 16/11/0

WTH 11

MIL 8

COM 13

POP 13

Attributes

Affinities: 12 (12 spent on Affiliations and Traditions – see below)

Initiative: 15

Reputation: 14

Capabilities

Bureaucracy 33%, Combat 18%, Commerce 67%, Credit 54%, Diplomacy 56%, Favour 26%, Lore

(Society of Ardent Entrepreneurs) 59%, Seduction 53%

Affiliations

Requirements:

Characters must be female with a CHA of 10 or above.

Skills:

Athletics, Dagger, Influence, Persistence, Streetwise.

Duties:

Courtesans must work a minimum of four nights a week.

Special Benefits:

Guild members tithe 50% of their earnings to the guild, keeping the rest. They are appointed a member of the Slayers’ Brotherhood stationed nearby while they work.

[The Rampant Gamer]

Man, I just have to stop reading these boards. It would certainly make my wallet happier. I'm now curious as to how organizations are arranged...

It's the least well defined portion of the game, and in my mind the most fun and challenging. You can set up shamanistic cults, mainstream religious organizations, sorcerous guilds, mercenary troops or anything else that might provide benefits (and obligations) in exchange for following their rules and meeting their requirements. It can help define what spells you have access to, what skills you can get trained on inexpensively, and provide endless plot hooks for the GM.

[Chorpa]

I am in the making of an adventure based on the 0one's Blueprint Vale of the Mages that will also serve as a small school for sorcerers in my campaign. Guess I'll get started on a campaign document where I type down Grimoires and Guilds/Factions and Cults as I create them. The question now is if I should create one Grimoire for each Mage Tower or one for the entire Vale?

As for the beginning characters I think I might just let them create their own grimoire they can stat with from the beginning that contain 4 spells with a short background on where they have acquired it. That way I get some free help from the players creating new organisations and grimoires. For more spells they would have to search out new grimoires/organisations to gain new spells. As the above Vale of the Mages I am creating at the moment.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Chorpa

[Psychman]

When this thread has come up on Mongoose's and The Design Mechanism's forums I have suggested getting the ridiculously cheap pdf of Cults of Glorantha from RpgNow. It may be based in a setting some may not be fond of but it does give a very wide range of Spirit traditions, Divine Cults, and Sorcerous orders with their Grimoires as examples to help your own design.

[rust]

The question now is if I should create one Grimoire for each Mage Tower or one for the entire Vale?

I do not know Vale of the Mages, but I would think that the mages living there have

different personalities and interests, and therefore learn or invent different spells for

their grimoires. Besides, I think it would be more interesting if some spells could only

be found in some few or only one single grimoire, instead of being known to every

mage of the region.

[Chaot]

I found the MRQI Guilds, Factions and Cults and MRQII Empires books very useful for determining organisations.

Very nice example! I actually picked up the MRQ1 Guilds, Factions and Cults during a sale long ago, but haven't really looked at it yet. Was this material moved into Legends?

You can set up shamanistic cults, mainstream religious organizations, sorcerous guilds, mercenary troops or anything else that might provide benefits (and obligations) in exchange for following their rules and meeting their requirements.

Seems like it could be very useful.

I am in the making of an adventure based on the 0one's Blueprint Vale of the Mages that will also serve as a small school for sorcerers in my campaign.

Was it you who turned me on to 0one? It was someone on this forum. Man, that stuff is good. Vale of the Mages looks enticing as well.

[nclarke]

So far none of the material from either MRQII Empires or MRQI Guilds, Factions and Cults has made it into Legend format. Both will slot right in to Legend however.

Empires has details of the Renown skill which I find to be very useful in determining if the heroes have any local influence and in determining if they can get an audience with the nobility compared to the slightly less focussed Influence only skill.

[Al.]

Much facile nonsense has been typed about ‘Trad’ and ‘Indie’ games but I’m going to assume that we all recognise that human behaviours are on a continuum and that any kind of labelling is only going to identify tendencies and clumps of behaviour.

All that taken as read

A ‘Trad’ GM acting as creator and curator of knowledge (and there are many such who have a wonderful time GMing and are fine human beings) is presumably going to enjoy using either official cults/organisations/grimoires or their own meticulously crafted ones.

I tend to the ‘Indie’ end.

I recognise that I’m too lazy for that legwork most of the time and that most of players are at least as imaginative as me (usually more so). So I’d favour this

1) Roll a D6.

2) Have the player write a description of the contents of his Grimoire in game world narrative. Then draw out the various key words and ascribe spells that fit the themes therein.

(but probably 1d8 spells due to my years playing SB and Elric! And the association 8 – chaos- sorcery)

And allow a sorcerer to choose their own spells in said grimoire and build in their own plothooks and gameworld details to be used later.

Do I worry that this is license to munchkin/mini-max/etc?

Not really, if that happens it either indicates (to me) that

a) the player is a bit of a d!ck and we are going to fall out over much more important things anyway

I’ve made my game to confrontional/compettive and that maximising behaviour is probably a sensible survival strategy

Do I worry that I’m missing a chance to weld the character to my game world?

Not really, if it is really important that the Sorcerer is sworn foe of Archmage Pohl Danjels then I can always add that anyway. Plus the vast majority of players I’ve sat at the table with will add interests and complications that I’d either

a) never have thought of

never have dared to impose

[Chorpa]

Was it you who turned me on to 0one? It was someone on this forum. Man, that stuff is good. Vale of the Mages looks enticing as well.

Yeah I think that was me.

Love their stuff myself. Well made maps you can easily adapt and slide into any fantasy campaign and in some cases other genres. It is easy to just pick a product and whip up an adventure around it. Funny thing with Vale of the Mages that I had incorporated that idea into my own campaign world long before I discovered the product in the 0one Games product list. I called it Valley of Wizards from the beginning but after the discovery of the product the name changed to Vale of the Mages.