Dwarvish Mass Transit

[Erol of Backford]

Yes, this isn't something normal Gloranthinas would think about and likely it belongs in the Your Dumbest Theory thread but in case there are some ideas to add to it:

Previously questioning how the 10,000 dwarves appeared out of thin air to attack the Clanking Ruins and Dwarf Knoll having mining tunnels or even massive caverns with iron constructs 100's of feet high (thank you Mr. Scoot) I was thinking there is surely a Gloranthian Dwarvish Mass Transit System.

With this thread I hope to play on Jaja's, Sorala of Nochet's studies and Dathan Denethsson's interview with Isidilian (from RQA 05 by Mr. Rowe) to grow a hypothetical dwarf subway system, develop encounters and create scenarios associated as sometimes dwarves need assistance due to say an infestation of krarshikid in a tunnel or possibly some trolls broken in somewhere? A lost tunnel in the Haunted Ruins is uncovered and leads to a tunnel or shaft to a deep tunnel... Maybe there is a dispute between 2 dwarven settlements and the PC's are sent to investigate an issue in the tunnel linking them so neither side is seen as the aggressor?

The major transit hubs would be under the larger settlements IMHO. In Genertela they'd have runs connecting, the Brass Mts., Nida, Jord, Imther, Gemborg, Iron Mts., Diamond Mts. and of course, Dwarf Mine. There would also be side spurs to or connecting runs from Pavis and the Haunted Ruins. I am guessing they'd be in operation still unless there were collapses due to earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc. or intrusions by hostile forces. If not maybe the dwarves will send out "Special Repair Missions"?

The greatest number of converging lines must have been at "Mostal’s Palace. This is the great stronghold of the Mostali and is under constant construction and expansion. Within is Mostal’s workshop and his furnace where the metals are made." Where is it if Mostal's Palace exists physically on Glorantha?

Any runs would have "passing siding" or a "passing loop" for trains going in the opposite direction or maybe if an express tram were headed in the same direction. Guessing the dwarf system in very remote areas would be only large enough for a single tram?

It's likely that any entry point not at a dwarvish complex would have some sort of warded or guarded subterranean barbican. The old zine, Shadows of pavis had some detail on the areas beneath Dwarf Knoll. Who knows maybe many of these "hubs" have portals to actually meet Mostal?

Wondering as to other's thoughts on how deep below the surface these tunnels would be. Guessing several hundred feet, maybe just about at sea level. If so and they were under the mountain ranges mostly they'd have much less a chance to have invaders discover them. Who'd wish to tunnel 100's of feet below grade to get to an empty tunnel?

I'll also assume the origin of the coordinate grid dwarfs use would be set at the center of Magasta's Pool? It may have been under the Spike but IIRC its location was one and the same? Can't recall. Would transit hubs be labeled XZ437, YQ232, ZE124 or something like that or would the coordinates also have time and planar space dimensions added?

Possibly the dwarf trams are submersible or do they run in "fish roads" as some sort of deal has been brokered between Mostal and Magasta? Lastly do the trams look like Leonardo's Travelpede but on wheels in lieu of legs? Maybe the nearest coastal town to Leonardo's workshop that the Travelpede runs between is linked to the dwarven tram system?

I wonder if there are any links near, say, the Footprint or the Hollow and if there are incursions by chaos near them?

There must be a line running to or through the Pavis under ground as it heads east... are there not some chaos dwarves in the Tunnel Hills? Seems like there are many ideas for dealing with dwarfs and their tram system?

Positive and constructive thoughts that add to the idea appreciated and YGWV for sure.

 

    

[KeithN]

could you create a London Underground style maps of the dwarf settlements? 

[John Biles]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

The greatest number of converging lines must have been at "Mostal’s Palace. This is the great stronghold of the Mostali and is under constant construction and expansion. Within is Mostal’s workshop and his furnace where the metals are made." Where is it if Mostal's Palace exists physically on Glorantha?

I think it's basically destroyed when the Spike exploded.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Wondering as to other's thoughts on how deep below the surface these tunnels would be. Guessing several hundred feet, maybe just about at sea level. If so and they were under the mountain ranges mostly they'd have much less a chance to have invaders discover them. Who'd wish to tunnel 100's of feet below grade to get to an empty tunnel?

 

They either have to be above the water table or use submersible trains.

 

[metcalph]

If the Mostali have an Underground, I think they would be literally under the Earth.  The trains would run on rickety tracks that are hanging down from the Earth where it meets the Underworld.  Beneath them is a vast dark expanse through which some planets can be dimly seen.

[svensson]

So are we looking for ruined transit stations buried under thousands of years of rubble, a'la Tekumel?

Previous editions have described Mostali habitations as being close by their work stations, 'close' meaning 'just on the other side of that door'. Presuming that is the case in RQG, and I haven't seen any description otherwise, most Clay Mostali don't need to travel far at all. Not even their products need to travel far, inasmuch 99% of dwarf products are used by the dwarfs themselves. The simple fact that, barring heresy, Mostali have very little need or desire to interact with the rest of Glorantha. Trade is simply the least of their concerns.

[svensson]

And, because I simply can't help it, there's this.... though I do mean it tongue in cheek, there's definitely a certain je nais se quas

From 'Metropolis' [Fritz Lang 1927]

Edited 16 hours ago by svensson

[mfbrandi]

8 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Positive and constructive thoughts that add to the idea appreciated and YGWV for sure.

• Chaos dwarf mass transit is as simple as it is terrifying:
  punch a hole into the Void at one end of the tunnel
  — after all, you can do this anywhere —
  and anything at the other end will accelerate toward it.
   
• If you don’t close the breach and lack a robust “catcher”° at the destination,
  you lose a trainful of CDs — but at least they die happy: whoosh!
   
• Nonchaotic dwarfs are aware of the technology.
  Are they prepared to use it?
  Some things clay was meant not to know.
  But it knows.

 

——————————————————————
° Some say a net woven from Her silk. Others that nothing of Hers can be trusted to keep Cosmos and Chaos apart. Chaos dwarfs just shrug … and smile.

Edited 13 hours ago by mfbrandi
footnote

[Joerg]

As an alternative to rails, think chains of buckets transporting whatever needs transporting, possibly changing directions as required.

[Erol of Backford]

17 hours ago, KeithN said:

London Underground style maps of the dwarf settlements

That is the plan eventually but for now it'd be Dwarf Run over to Pavis via the Haunted Ruins, down to Clanking Ruins. The trick will be to figure out how dwarves would plan their system, lay the track, would it be hordes of nimerlings helping actual dwarves or would it be mostly dwarf crews with a few iron dwarf guards with some Jolanti.

16 hours ago, John Biles said:

think it's basically destroyed when the Spike exploded.

Exactly.

It invites so many ideas for scenarios. Any lines that remained afterward are hanging into the maelstrom of Magasta’s Pool or do some of them run to Iron City which juts sideways out of the wall of Magasta’s Pool and or Nowhere Land, a bleak and desolate place which sits deep within the maelstrom of Magasta’s Pool... Maybe Iron City was the main dwarven transit hub before the Spike exploded and is what remains?

The Great Tram Robbery, The Temple of Dwarvish Doom, anything related to tunnels, mines and or mountain caves would fit in well.

15 hours ago, svensson said:

The simple fact that, barring heresy, Mostali have very little need or desire to interact with the rest of Glorantha. Trade is simply the least of their concerns.

But when dwarves were on the council they'd have taken the tram to any meeting? Also how did those 10,000 dwarves suddenly appear. It reminds me of the Confederate Army in the ACW being transported all over the South via rail, arriving just in time to help turn the tide? I would guess dwarves are always able to produce more than they need, efficient that they are. Would they produce more than they need, of course they would because they know the Hero Wars are coming? That aside, they could transport goods and materials, dwarf-power between locations as needed to assist with bigger projects or to stockpile those tin cans of paste (Do dwarves like curry?) rather than waiting for more dwarves to be manufactured or going hungry because food production was disabled due to some raid at some obscure location?

15 hours ago, svensson said:

From 'Metropolis' [Fritz Lang 1927]

 

It's perfect. Dwarves moving via the subterranean tram system to remote work locations... I love it. As ore is mined out they need to send miners to obtain and ship it. Recall the dwarves have been mining in the same locations for 100's of years... the tunnels get longer and or deeper?

Maybe there are Balrogs under the sidewalk, below the earth!? There could also be a corridor, somewhere deep in the tramway, to Mostal's Hall?

   

12 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Chaos dwarf mass transit is as simple as it is terrifying:
punch a hole into the Void at one end of the tunnel

The Tunneled Hills would be perfect for this sort of thing. The underground tramway was blasted purposely in certain places to keep chaos or maybe trolls out? I supposes dwarves may have decided they could rebuild a tunnel at their leisure as/if when needed at a future date?

The idea of the Dwarf Special Repair Mission, whatever that might be coupled with some PC's who are hired to help, not unlike "An Elf is Hiring" or similar scenarios? Who knows, maybe the Cinder Pits have a subsurface tramway to  Dwarf Run!?

10 hours ago, Joerg said:

rails, think chains of buckets transporting whatever needs transporting, possibly changing directions as required

Seems like the Loony Toon cartoons, Robots or maybe something from when the drones are being made in Star Wars? I'd say in their mines yes but not the tramway that is unless they are literally under the earth as Metcalph proposed...

17 hours ago, metcalph said:

literally under the Earth

Are they cars like on a ski lift, cable cars? This leads to another question, how think is the ground so they'd be under it? Reminds me of the old book Where the Sidewalk Ends...

It could be that in some locations the trams run so deep they actually become cable cars like on ski lifts on if you like it better  

 

Also would they change elevation via 45 degree slopes with cog engines or would all the lines be at the same level deep below grade.

Sometimes repairs are not made as they should be... drunken dwarven gandy dancers? But this does give questions such as how do they make repairs resulting from earthquakes?

I suppose I laugh more when making these posts and responding to them than as I recollect, when we sometimes had gotten out of hand when I was younger in gaming session... both bring a smile to my face.

Thank you all for the input!