smiorgan Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 I wonder...This thread got me wondering and, doing a little research, I noted that SB I, RQ II and RQ III do not have "characteristic rolls" as a mechanic .... Could the resistance table almost be seen as but a layer in BRP's evolution that more robust mechanisms, like characteristic rolls and difficulty modifiers, supplanted? What do you think?Yes and no.Characteristic rolls x5 and x1 have always been there, but they were much less systematized. They popped up in specific rules or scenarios and were explained each time as if they were a special procedure. For instance, RQ2 had POWx5% luck rolls, Take falling from horseback, page 52 "Armor will count if a luck roll is made (POWx5 or less on D100)"And, again, in the sample adventure in SB1-2, "The Tower of Yrkath Florn" there is a secret door so "cunningly locked" that "the only way to get through it is to a saving roll (sic!) against the character's INT rating. (Roll 1D100. If the INT rating or less is rolled, they figure out how to open the door", page 121. Note that Ken St Andre here uses a Tunnels & Trolls term for the roll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwyn Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 It's not so much the resistance table itself I dislike, it's just the idea of having to look things up. The resistance table is actually so simple that most folks (I think) have the underlying formula memorized. I think the resistance table makes more sense than anything I can think of in any version of D&D I've played, but that's not saying a whole lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiorgan Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 It's not so much the resistance table itself I dislike, it's just the idea of having to look things up. The resistance table is actually so simple that most folks (I think) have the underlying formula memorized. Yes, the formula is easy and you can do the math on the fly. Or, if you don't want because you are math challenged you look up. RQ3 also provided a nice table with precalculated crit and special ranges, In both cases the table is an aid, not a fiddly rule that you HAVE to look up.It's not like, say, RQ6's big list of combat special effects that you just HAVE to look up, or learn by heart. Ooops! ... I forgot that RQ6 was a modern system without fiddly rules... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hexelis Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Play aid. I got some stand up RT's from Chaosium. I use em as book marks. RT is on my CoC screen so I never look it up. We have a cork board with all kinds of play aids, maps, the crit chart etc. So, I use it. It's easy and we're used to it. We had a math wiz who could calculate on sight, but he's long gone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwyn Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 It's not like, say, RQ6's big list of combat special effects that you just HAVE to look up, or learn by heart. Ooops! ... I forgot that RQ6 was a modern system without fiddly rules... Personally, I like the special effects, but you're absolutely right... RQ6 has waaaay too many tables. Two fatigue tables? Just thinking about that makes me... fatigued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmitchell Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) FWIW, here's a "resistance table" using opposing skill rolls, based on CoC 7 rules (hard = 0.50, extreme = 0.20). Actual numbers would probably look a little different under BRP (special = 0.20, critical = 0.05) or MRQ (critical=0.10). Note that equal percentages are 50/50 as expected, but chances of success fall/rise sharply even with only 5% differences ... and the smaller the higher skill, the larger the difference is.| A\R || 5 | 10 | 15 | 20 | 25 | 30 | 35 | 40 | 45 | 50 | 55 | 60 | 65 | 70 | 75 | 80 | 85 | 90 | 95 | 100 | 105 | |------:||------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:|------:| | 5 || 50.00 | 9.14 | 8.97 | 8.79 | 8.62 | 8.44 | 8.27 | 8.09 | 7.92 | 7.74 | 7.57 | 7.39 | 7.22 | 7.04 | 6.87 | 6.69 | 6.52 | 6.34 | 6.17 | 6.14 | 6.12 | | 10 || 90.86 | 50.00 | 13.25 | 12.90 | 12.58 | 12.23 | 11.91 | 11.56 | 11.24 | 10.89 | 10.57 | 10.22 | 9.90 | 9.55 | 9.23 | 8.88 | 8.56 | 8.21 | 7.89 | 7.79 | 7.72 | | 15 || 91.03 | 86.75 | 50.00 | 16.91 | 16.41 | 15.87 | 15.37 | 14.83 | 14.33 | 13.79 | 13.29 | 12.75 | 12.25 | 11.71 | 11.21 | 10.67 | 10.17 | 9.63 | 9.13 | 8.99 | 8.89 | | 20 || 91.21 | 87.10 | 83.09 | 50.00 | 20.37 | 19.66 | 19.01 | 18.30 | 17.65 | 16.94 | 16.29 | 15.58 | 14.93 | 14.22 | 13.57 | 12.86 | 12.21 | 11.50 | 10.85 | 10.64 | 10.49 | | 25 || 91.38 | 87.42 | 83.59 | 79.63 | 50.00 | 23.30 | 22.47 | 21.57 | 20.74 | 19.84 | 19.01 | 18.11 | 17.28 | 16.38 | 15.55 | 14.65 | 13.82 | 12.92 | 12.09 | 11.84 | 11.66 | | 30 || 91.56 | 87.77 | 84.13 | 80.34 | 76.70 | 50.00 | 26.11 | 25.04 | 24.06 | 22.99 | 22.01 | 20.94 | 19.96 | 18.89 | 17.91 | 16.84 | 15.86 | 14.79 | 13.81 | 13.49 | 13.26 | | 35 || 91.73 | 88.09 | 84.63 | 80.99 | 77.53 | 73.89 | 50.00 | 28.31 | 27.15 | 25.89 | 24.73 | 23.47 | 22.31 | 21.05 | 19.89 | 18.63 | 17.47 | 16.21 | 15.05 | 14.69 | 14.43 | | 40 || 91.91 | 88.44 | 85.17 | 81.70 | 78.43 | 74.96 | 71.69 | 50.00 | 30.47 | 29.04 | 27.73 | 26.30 | 24.99 | 23.56 | 22.25 | 20.82 | 19.51 | 18.08 | 16.77 | 16.34 | 16.03 | | 45 || 92.08 | 88.76 | 85.67 | 82.35 | 79.26 | 75.94 | 72.85 | 69.53 | 50.00 | 31.94 | 30.45 | 28.83 | 27.34 | 25.72 | 24.23 | 22.61 | 21.12 | 19.50 | 18.01 | 17.54 | 17.20 | | 50 || 92.26 | 89.11 | 86.21 | 83.06 | 80.16 | 77.01 | 74.11 | 70.96 | 68.06 | 50.00 | 33.45 | 31.66 | 30.02 | 28.23 | 26.59 | 24.80 | 23.16 | 21.37 | 19.73 | 19.19 | 18.80 | | 55 || 92.43 | 89.43 | 86.71 | 83.71 | 80.99 | 77.99 | 75.27 | 72.27 | 69.55 | 66.55 | 50.00 | 34.19 | 32.37 | 30.39 | 28.57 | 26.59 | 24.77 | 22.79 | 20.97 | 20.39 | 19.97 | | 60 || 92.61 | 89.78 | 87.25 | 84.42 | 81.89 | 79.06 | 76.53 | 73.70 | 71.17 | 68.34 | 65.81 | 50.00 | 35.05 | 32.90 | 30.93 | 28.78 | 26.81 | 24.66 | 22.69 | 22.04 | 21.57 | | 65 || 92.78 | 90.10 | 87.75 | 85.07 | 82.72 | 80.04 | 77.69 | 75.01 | 72.66 | 69.98 | 67.63 | 64.95 | 50.00 | 35.06 | 32.91 | 30.57 | 28.42 | 26.08 | 23.93 | 23.24 | 22.74 | | 70 || 92.96 | 90.45 | 88.29 | 85.78 | 83.62 | 81.11 | 78.95 | 76.44 | 74.28 | 71.77 | 69.61 | 67.10 | 64.94 | 50.00 | 35.27 | 32.76 | 30.46 | 27.95 | 25.65 | 24.89 | 24.34 | | 75 || 93.13 | 90.77 | 88.79 | 86.43 | 84.45 | 82.09 | 80.11 | 77.75 | 75.77 | 73.41 | 71.43 | 69.07 | 67.09 | 64.73 | 50.00 | 34.55 | 32.07 | 29.37 | 26.89 | 26.09 | 25.51 | | 80 || 93.31 | 91.12 | 89.33 | 87.14 | 85.35 | 83.16 | 81.37 | 79.18 | 77.39 | 75.20 | 73.41 | 71.22 | 69.43 | 67.24 | 65.45 | 50.00 | 34.11 | 31.24 | 28.61 | 27.74 | 27.11 | | 85 || 93.48 | 91.44 | 89.83 | 87.79 | 86.18 | 84.14 | 82.53 | 80.49 | 78.88 | 76.84 | 75.23 | 73.19 | 71.58 | 69.54 | 67.93 | 65.89 | 50.00 | 32.66 | 29.85 | 28.94 | 28.28 | | 90 || 93.66 | 91.79 | 90.37 | 88.50 | 87.08 | 85.21 | 83.79 | 81.92 | 80.50 | 78.63 | 77.21 | 75.34 | 73.92 | 72.05 | 70.63 | 68.76 | 67.34 | 50.00 | 31.57 | 30.59 | 29.88 | | 95 || 93.83 | 92.11 | 90.87 | 89.15 | 87.91 | 86.19 | 84.95 | 83.23 | 81.99 | 80.27 | 79.03 | 77.31 | 76.07 | 74.35 | 73.11 | 71.39 | 70.15 | 68.43 | 50.00 | 31.79 | 31.05 | | 100 || 93.86 | 92.21 | 91.01 | 89.36 | 88.16 | 86.51 | 85.31 | 83.66 | 82.46 | 80.81 | 79.61 | 77.96 | 76.76 | 75.11 | 73.91 | 72.26 | 71.06 | 69.41 | 68.21 | 50.00 | 32.65 | | 105 || 93.88 | 92.28 | 91.11 | 89.51 | 88.34 | 86.74 | 85.57 | 83.97 | 82.80 | 81.20 | 80.03 | 78.43 | 77.26 | 75.66 | 74.49 | 72.89 | 71.72 | 70.12 | 68.95 | 67.35 | 50.00 | Edited October 4, 2015 by fmitchell Quote Frank "Welcome to the hottest and fastest-growing hobby of, er, 1977." -- The Laundry RPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questbird Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 FWIW, here's a "resistance table" using opposing skill rolls, based on CoC 7 rules (hard = 0.50, extreme = 0.20). Actual numbers would probably look a little different under BRP (special = 0.20, critical = 0.05) or MRQ (critical=0.10). Note that equal percentages are 50/50 as expected, but chances of success fall/rise sharply even with only 5% differences ... and the smaller the higher skill, the larger the difference is.Holy crap, that looks like Rolemaster! I'm a fan of the resistance table (I use it for my hitpointless combat) but..uhh...this looks complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmitchell Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Holy crap, that looks like Rolemaster! I'm a fan of the resistance table (I use it for my hitpointless combat) but..uhh...this looks complicated.It's the probabilities that shake out of opposed rolls, modulo my ability to manipulate probabilities. (A brute force approach gave me slightly different numbers, about 1-2% difference.) You don't need to refer to the table, just roll the active and resisting skills and determine the winner based on degree of success.Higher skills have significant advantages because, to quote the Call of Cthulhu 7th edition Keeper's Guide, "In the case of a tie, the side with the higher skill (or characteristic) wins." (p 91) I created similar tables for RQ6 and BRP; the difference was less severe, but still non-linear. Quote Frank "Welcome to the hottest and fastest-growing hobby of, er, 1977." -- The Laundry RPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankcam Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) JOIN THE RESISTANCE!!! This needs to be on a Convention T-shirt! Edited October 5, 2015 by Mankcam 4 Quote " Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Norén Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I'm in! I had that (together with the Results table and the Fumble table) on my Referee's screen.I had some plans to use it for all contested rolls, but we never got around to playtest that variant. We did however make up one based on the actual odds, since we felt that 8 versus 5 should have a better chance (62%) than 18 vs. 15 (55%). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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