smiorgan Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 In this age of board coups, purges, and revolutions... I invite you to JOIN THE RESISTANCE! It is time for d100 players to OPPOSE dice tricks and reclaim their rightful place at the TABLE OF BROTHERHOOD!Since the times of the infamous MRQ1 every faction coming to power resorted chiefly to one policy in order to persuade you that they were new and cool: "We have done away with the resistance table!"2006 Mongoose RuneQuest does away with the resistance table...2009 OpenQuest does away with the resistance table2014 Call of Chtulhu 7 does away with the resistance table2015 Revolution ... BRP Essentials...ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Stop being a passive charactersistic! We are already pitted in a struggle against the venomous potency of innovation for the sake of innovation!JOIN THE RESISTANCE! 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Peterson Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 That was pretty damn entertaining. Count me as part of the Resistance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooley1chris Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 In all seriousness the resistance table is necessary to fairly resolve certain situations that require a more random approach. 3 Quote Author QUASAR space opera system: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/459723/QUASAR?affiliate_id=810507 My Magic World projects page: Tooleys Underwhelming Projects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simlasa Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Not to mention that if you're really that allergic to charts the formula it's derived from is dead simple. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosenMcStern Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 In fact, in 25+ years of BRP I have never used the table, and always calculated the chance mathematically. 3 Quote Proud member of the Evil CompetitionTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newt Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Pah we chucked out the resistance table in 2007 with OQs foundation document...Simple Quest Quote Head Honcho of D101 GamesPublisher of Crypts and Things/Monkey/OpenQuest/River of HeavenThe Sorcerer Under the Mountain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vile Traveller Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threedeesix Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I posted this in another thread before finding this one. It really belongs here.I just don't think it is necessary. Your using a table to generate a percentage chance of success, either opposed or otherwise. All of the alternatives in existence do this already, without the necessity of a table. Look at arm wrestling, I use my STR on the table to determine a percentage chance of success, you use your STR on the table to generate a percentage chance of success, we both make the percentage rolls. All of the alternatives simply skip the middleman and just give you the percentages. To me, the Resistance Table is the THACO of BRP, it works, but there are better ways.Can anyone here truly come up with something that the Resistance Table can do, that the alternatives cannot? I'm truly just curious, because I can't, but may be overlooking something.Rod 2 Quote Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info "D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nDervish Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 As a relative newcomer to BRP games, I don't get the point of the resistance table (or its mathematical equivalent). What's so great about it, aside from the history it carries? Opposed rolls seem to me like a more straightforward way of achieving the same basic function. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisker89 Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Count me in it really brings me back to the time of Stormbringer/Elric!... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickMiddleton Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I posted this in another thread before finding this one. It really belongs here.I just don't think it is necessary. Your using a table to generate a percentage chance of success, either opposed or otherwise. All of the alternatives in existence do this already, without the necessity of a table. Look at arm wrestling, I use my STR on the table to determine a percentage chance of success, you use your STR on the table to generate a percentage chance of success, we both make the percentage rolls. All of the alternatives simply skip the middleman and just give you the percentages. Um, that's NOT how it works... One force is active, one passive. Match the active vs the passive to determine the chance of success. If it's a situation where one of those is involved is a PC, I always let the PC roll (so sometimes invert the relationship), but in 36 years of using the resistance table I've NEVER had two percentage rolls for one resolution whilst resolving a single round contest using it.Can anyone here truly come up with something that the Resistance Table can do, that the alternatives cannot? I'm truly just curious, because I can't, but may be overlooking something.no, but the same us equally true of every rule in every RPG - to pick on example why use roll under on d100 vs a total rated on a percentile scale, why aren't skills on the same scale as attributes and resolution done by rolling a d20? Neither is intrinsically better in any general sense.In most BRP games a creatures core attributes are rated on a non-percentile scale; the resistance table (or the calculation in tabulates) lets you use those attributes in contests; it defines in use their inherent relative power (any attribute 10 points or more greater than what opposes it will always win) in a way opposed percentile stat rolls don't. An arm wrestling match on the resistance table between a STR9 character and a STR18 one (5% / 95% chance depending on how it's framed) is a forgone conclusion; using Effort rolls (45% vs 90%) it's simply not.Neither is "better", they provide different feels to resolutions whilst still both using the core mechanic of roll d100, roll under. Which means in play a character exercising a skill has a subtlety different feel to a challenge against their inherent qualities (STR, CON etc etc); which is why I've long been a fan of. Cheers,Nick 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiorgan Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Count me in it really brings me back to the time of Stormbringer/Elric!...Whisker, I sent you a private message!Smiorgan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosenMcStern Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Given the prevalence of Italians in this Resistance thread, we could start using "Bella ciao" as the official anthem. 1 1 Quote Proud member of the Evil CompetitionTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosenMcStern Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Given the prevalence of Italians in this Resistance thread, we could start using "Bella ciao" as the official anthem. 1 Quote Proud member of the Evil CompetitionTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiorgan Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Um, that's NOT how it Sworks... One force is active, one passive. Match the active vs the passive to determine the chance of success. If it's a situation where one of those is involved is a PC, I always let the PC roll (so sometimes invert the relationship), but in 36 years of using the resistance table I've NEVER had two percentage rolls for one resolution whilst resolving a single round contest using it.[...]In most BRP games a creatures core attributes are rated on a non-percentile scale; the resistance table (or the calculation in tabulates) lets you use those attributes in contests; it defines in use their inherent relative power (any attribute 10 points or more greater than what opposes it will always win) in a way opposed percentile stat rolls don't. An arm wrestling match on the resistance table between a STR9 character and a STR18 one (5% / 95% chance depending on how it's framed) is a forgone conclusion; using Effort rolls (45% vs 90%) it's simply not.EXACTLY. My post was not serious, but, given that a serious discussion has started, let me toss my two cents... I think Rod's post is a perfect example of getting the Resistance Table wrong. To elaborate on Nick's eloquent defense, RT (or its formula) is an elegat way to pit any two non-percentile values and decide which one prevails in a single roll. So, it is well adapted to situations where, 1) you use a characteristic or resource that is not natively %, 2) you want quickly a definite result without going through several rolls and narrating an extended struggle, 3) the greater value has a large chance to prevail and 4) the eventuality of both contestants failing is impossible or not important, 5) the values pitted are variable resources that increase/ decrease.First of all the RT is a wonderful and flexible GM's tool and universal "saving throw" mechainc that lets the GM create monster or threats that attack any kind of charactersitic or resource with a given POT (potency).POT vs CON (poison, sickness), but also POT vs. magic points, vs. hit points (maybe hp of a given location). You can create all kinds of funny attacks. Here is an example:Worm of Doubt. This spirit creature destroys your faith pitting its POW 45 against your allegiance on the RT, if it prevails your allegiance score decreases by 1d6, which is added to the worm's POW.One good example of the flexibility of the RT is when you pit a rolled value against a characteristic: rolled damage vs SIZ to determine knockback.Also it's very easy to add the STR of several people trying to move an object with a big SIZ, and so on. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiorgan Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Given the prevalence of Italians in this Resistance thread, we could start using "Bella ciao" as the official anthem.LOL! Gli eroi della resistenza. You will have to put the resistance table as an option for the Italian edition of Revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosenMcStern Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Whom do we put on the front cover, Pertini or Saragat? Quote Proud member of the Evil CompetitionTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiorgan Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Whom do we put on the front cover, Pertini or Saragat?For my generation it's obviously Pertini! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threedeesix Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Um, that's NOT how it works... One force is active, one passive. Go to Match.co.ukmatch.co.ukMatch the active vs the passive to determine the chance of success. If it's a situation where one of those is involved is a PC, I always let the PC roll (so sometimes invert the relationship), but in 36 years of using the resistance table I've NEVER had two percentage rolls for one resolution whilst resolving a single round contest using it.Really? From the original Basic Role Playing pamphlet from 1980..."Another Example: Arm Wrestling: First you already know your STR and must pit it against the other person's. You find the roll that you need, then find the roll the other person needs. Both rolls are made simultaneously. If both character's make their roll, then there is no result, and the wrestle continues. If one of you makes it and the other fails, then the bout is over and the person who made it is the winner."Now, the example I gave in my original post was arm wrestling, which can be more than a single round contest, but it was my only example, so "that's NOT how it works" is in error, not my post.Just saying... RodEdit: But if you comment was to my statement that "Your using a table to generate a percentage chance of success, either opposed or otherwise." Oh ya, I was wrong there. Oops. Edited October 3, 2015 by threedeesix Quote Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info "D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiorgan Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Really? From the original Basic Role Playing pamphlet from 1980..."Another Example: Arm Wrestling: First you already know your STR and must pit it against the other person's. You find the roll that you need, then find the roll the other person needs. Both rolls are made simultaneously. If both character's make their roll, then there is no result, and the wrestle continues. If one of you makes it and the other fails, then the bout is over and the person who made it is the winner."That's the third example, at least in my Italian BRP booklet. First there was breaking doors open (with doors having their STR), second carrying objects of various SIZ from a SIZ1 hammer to a SIZ 60 triceratops (!).Taking only arms wrestling and saying modern opposed rolls (which weren't in the BRP booklet) do it better may not be wrong, is well... partial.By the way, opposed rolls are FINE. I just like to have ALSO the resistance Table. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threedeesix Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Taking only arms wrestling and saying modern opposed rolls (which weren't in the BRP booklet) do it better may not be wrong, is well... partial. I admitted I was wrong smiorgan. I know its the internet and that may be unusual and all... 3 Quote Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info "D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwyn Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Everything in the resistance table can be captured by this easy mathematical formula:50% + % active force chance - % opposing chance = % chance of successAll of the characteristics in BRP (except SIZ) have a % chance associated with them (STR... Effort roll, CON... Endurance roll, POW... Luck roll, etc.). So if you want to recreate the exact mechanic of the resistance table, without resorting to consulting a table, all you have to do is add (or subtract) the derived characteristics rolls to a base roll of 50%. Most people who play BRP have already figured out some derived version of this formula in their heads (subtract one characteristic from another, multiply by five and subtract from 50%, or something similar).Got a characteristic (like SIZ) that doesn't have a percentage chance associated with it? Multiply it by 5. That's your percentage chance.The resistance table is a really nice mechanical way to resolve conflicts, but consulting a table interrupts the flow of a game.Of course, some people don't like math, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiorgan Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 I admitted I was wrong smiorgan. I know its the internet and that may be unusual and all... Sorry Rod. I went over aggressive in my Resistance Table evangelism! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threedeesix Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Sorry Rod. I went over aggressive in my Resistance Table evangelism! Understood. We BRP fans are a passionate bunch. 1 Quote Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info "D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwolfe Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Greetings all,I wonder...About a year ago, as I was highlighting and annotating important things in my MW book for an approaching game,--back when the chance of GMing was a possibility in my neck of the woods--I was struck by how many ways there were to reach resolution: straight skill rolls, opposed rolls, combined skill rolls, the resistance table and characteristic rolls. Further, it seemed to me that I could almost forgo the resistance table with a judicious application of characteristic rolls and various multipliers (X5-X2), particularly if I employed BRP Difficulty Modifiers.This thread got me wondering and, doing a little research, I noted that SB I, RQ II and RQ III do not have "characteristic rolls" as a mechanic (I cannot speak to Mongoose material having disposed of mine soon after receiving it--my icon is not Photoshopped). Could the resistance table almost be seen as but a layer in BRP's evolution that more robust mechanisms, like characteristic rolls and difficulty modifiers, supplanted? If that were the case, wouldn't it speak volumes to the awkwardness that some feel in RT use?What do you think?Cheers! Quote Present home-port: home-brew BRP/OQ SRD variant; past ports-of-call: SB '81, RQIII '84, BGB '08, RQIV(Mythras) '12, MW '15, and OQ '17 BGB BRP: 0 edition: 20/420; .pdf edition: 06/11/08; 1st edition: 06/13/08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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