Glorantha Third Age with d100

[RosenMcStern]

Now that people are back from Tentacles (I'll be there next year, I swear it :mad:), I want to make my new discussion group "D100 Glorantha Third Age" available to the public. The group aims at providing rules to play d100 in Glorantha third age, for those who still prefer d100 to HeroQuest (and there are many). All the stuff I have written so far is MRQ based, but is ultimately aimed at using it with BRP, which is more detailed and does not contain some "flaws" that do not represent Glorantha very well.

The purpose of the group is to create some general consensus around a cross-system ruleset, and then make the ruleset available via a Wiki (or the Alephtar Games website). At that point everyone is free to take it and use it with BRP, MRQ, CoC, RQ2, etc.

I have already written a bunch of rule adaptations and sketchy cult descriptions, but everyone is asked to comment, modify and add. We will be running a lot of polls.

Here are the rules of the road. The group is moderated, so by requesting to join you are accepting the rules. I am sending nominal invitations to people who are actually involved in writing official rules like Jason, Loz, Pete, Jeff etc., but everyone is welcome if he has some contribution to provide, however small. I could name a couple of people who will certainly join

Mr. Quacko the Defender of the D100 System was kindly provided by Dario Corallo.

Rules of d100glorantha : Glorantha (Third Age) with D100

Rule 0: No negative comments. If you want to state that this or that system sucks or that d100 was incredibly better in the year xxxx, or whatever against a system, please do this elsewhere. We are here to make things better, not to complain about what we dislike.

Rule 1: We discuss only d100-based systems. Other systems must be discussed elsewhere

Rule 2: We discuss only Glorantha. Other fantasy worlds must be discussed elsewhere. If you want to adapt what you found here to another world do it but take the discussion elsewhere, and remember that Glorantha is Copyright © Issaries!

Rule 3: Although cultural discussion is also welcome, we are here to discuss d100 roleplaying rules in Glorantha. The world in itself has its discussion group.

Rule 3: We discuss only Third Age. Second Age has its official rules forum.

Rule 5: We want to support all d100 systems currently in print (BRP and RuneQuest – which means Mongoose RuneQuest – at the time I am writing this). A solution must always be found to integrate a rule or spell or cult with each of these systems, or that rule/spell/cult must be discarded.

Rule 6: We do not want to support out of print systems (which includes all previous, albeit beloved, editions of RuneQuest). We want to support game publishers, not ebay. If someone wants to adapt what we write to out of print games, he is free to do so, but he must take the discussion elsewhere.

Rule 7: Although technically we are not discussing HeroQuest, we must take as much inspiration from it as possible, as it portrays many aspects of Glorantha that have not yet been represented in d100.

[lawrence.whitaker]

I think this is good and welcome (and have joined), but would urge you to email Greg and just clarify how the group stands regarding the Issaries Fan Policy, the Moon Design and the Mongoose licenses. You may have done this already (and secured blessing), but as the proposal is to publish something that will be in the public domain, you will need to, at the very least, consult with Greg as the licensor, to ensure that no IPs or existing licenses get breached (thus resulting in Cease and Desist notices).

[sinisalo]

Immediately someone comes on and starts waving the threat of cease and desist notices. Thanks Loz. Free discussion on this subject on the internet is just that - free. It only becomes an issue when money starts changing hands or it can be proven that Greg's business is affected. Free intellectual discussion is certainly protected by British law at least and long may it remain so.

Greg or Mongoose cannot own or suppress ideas, sorry.

[lawrence.whitaker]

Immediately someone comes on and starts waving the threat of cease and desist notices. Thanks Loz. Free discussion on this subject on the internet is just that - free. It only becomes an issue when money starts changing hands or it can be proven that Greg's business is affected. Free intellectual discussion is certainly protected by British law at least and long may it remain so.

Greg or Mongoose cannot own or suppress ideas, sorry.

I'm sorry you feel I'm trying to rain on the parade, Sinisalo, but you're completely misunderstanding my intentions.

All I'm trying to do is...

A) Point out that Issaries, the owner of the Glorantha IP, operates a fan policy regarding Gloranthan fan-based output, either in physical or electronic print.

Both Moon Design and Mongoose have paid for licences to produce Gloranthan material and that it would be wise to just check that nothing's being, or could be, infringed.

Neither of these is particularly onerous to do, and is a simple, common courtesy to the licensor and licensees. As Paolo has already said:

The purpose of the group is to create some general consensus around a cross-system ruleset, and then make the ruleset available via a Wiki (or the Alephtar Games website). At that point everyone is free to take it and use it with BRP, MRQ, CoC, RQ2, etc.

Emphasis mine. This could run the risk of contravening either the Fan Policy or an existing license, if the intention is to publish something - free or not - in the public domain. You clearly don't feel such things are important, but I happen to think they are. Far from trying to 'wave the threat of cease and desist notices', I'm just trying to make sure that no-one else - Greg or otherwise - does. In other words, make sure that this project, which I think is a good one, gets off to the best possible start.

The exchange of ideas is no problem, but publishing stuff could be. Still, if you want to run that risk, then be my guest.

I'm not getting into any flamewars over this so don't expect me to get into debates here, or anywhere else. But please, do look carefully at what I was saying before accusing me of being heavy-handed.

I hope that there aren't any problems - but its surely better to make the appropriate checks first (and Paolo may have already done so) than to plough straight in and repent later.

[RosenMcStern]

Sorry for the fans of the "Evil Mongoose Conspiracy" theory, but Loz is correct (and as a licensee of Issaries for Age of Glorantha I am perfectly aware of the risks).

In any case I have invited Greg to the group (I do not think he'll join or be very active though, as the discussion is gonna be very rulesy, and not about HeroQuest at all), and will e-mail him later today to explain what the intents are. But as there is no public site so far, I do not think we may be subject to Issaries fan policy. Yet.

Loz is right in pointing out that publishing anything, even a mere wiki, requires permission. Before putting anything on a public site, I'll manage (we'll manage, as it is gonna be a cooperative effort) to have Greg's permission. But getting him to say yes or nay is easier if he can have a look at the contents, which are not present just now.

[Trifletraxor]

Sounds good. A public domain d100 system would be great. But will it be adjusted for Glorantha or Glorantha-specific? Cause as Loz said, we don't have the right to make anything Gloranthan public domain. One option would be to go with generic names for Gloranthan stuff, just changing the names, but what was your ideas on this Paolo?

SGL

[sinisalo]

No I'm sorry you're not correct. You cannot copyright words, names or ideas - even made up words, names or ideas. You think newspapers, magazines, encyclopedias, dictionaries and other forms of research are required to seek out permission before discussing the IP (SIC) of other people?

He says he wants to post it all on a wiki ie, an online encyclopedia. He is entitled regardless of whatever other people think.

Courtesy it might be. Necessary it is not.

He should of course mention who owns any registered trademarks and not breach copyright (ie, copying stuff out of other people's books).

You may think I am flaming you but I am still entitled to express my dismay at the bad treatment of creative, hard working, bright people who just want to chat and record their ideas.

If you don't believe me consult a solicitor because I have.

[RosenMcStern]

Sounds good. A public domain d100 system would be great. But will it be adjusted for Glorantha or Glorantha-specific? Cause as Loz said, we don't have the right to make anything Gloranthan public domain. One option would be to go with generic names for Gloranthan stuff, just changing the names, but what was your ideas on this Paolo?

Clarification required, as the discussion is entering the minefield of IP and copyright: we will not be discussing any public domain d100 system. Just adaptation rules to use the published stuff (mainly magic) for BRP and MRQ in Third Age. You still have to own the official supplements to play.

For other information, I have given you membership in the group.

[Private Eye]

Free intellectual discussion is certainly protected by British law at least and long may it remain so.

Well at the risk of being pedantic, technically it isn't.

Leaving aside the issue of "British" law (I will confine myself to English law as opposed to Scottish or Northern Irish), then the general principal is that you can do anything that isn't specifically forbidden. As there is no written constitution, there is in general no specific law protecting peoples' rights.

Hence "intellectual discussion" is generally subject to all the normal laws that apply - you can defame someone in intellectual discussion (subject to the usual defences) or run foul of anti-terrorism legislation or race relations law. Whether anyone (including the CPS) would actually prosecute in a given case would depend on a variety of factors, including public policy, but let's not pretend there is an absolute right of free speech in England enshrined in law. There is in the US, enshrined in the constitution, or so I understand it.

As regards copyright law, this is very complex in England (and I am sure in the US as well). As well as copyright, there is also trademark law, and action can also be taken under the old principle of "passing off", where members of the public are likely to be mislead as the the source or provenance of goods etc.

Good grief, what am I doing - this is supposed to be my hobby not my work!

Good luck to anyone producing anything that enhances the BRP experience - hopefully with full approval of all involved.

[sinisalo]

Sorry English law, I'm embarassed by that but I stand by the rest. I'm talking reasonable discussion similar to what takes place in academic journals (and journalism generally) that acknowledges trademarks.

I'll say no more because I don't want to drag down RosenMcStern who may not be bothered by this into my quarrels but I will cite a judgement concerning the court battle over the DaVinci Code: High Court Judgment

You can google it to see what the press think.

[Private Eye]

Regardless, there is no legal "protection" for discussion, intellectual or otherwise, enshrined in English law. If someone wants to take action against a person or persons in such circumstances, they can do so providing they can establish a cause of action. Depending on the cause alleged there may be specific defenses (eg fair comment, qualified privilege etc in the case of defamation) but they cannot point to a specific right of free speech that would protect them.

[RosenMcStern]

:focus:

People, we are very grateful to you for reminding us that "BRP Law and Order" would be a great supplement, but GrokLaw is a much more appropriate place for this. Loz was just trying to remind me (the culprit) that mailing Greg was appropriate. Greg mailed, no reply so far, so all that was due is done. Before you go on defending the culprit (me), I must warn you that I ran out of money last month and can no longer pay my attorneys' bills

(Hope my real attorneys are not reading this)

[lawrence.whitaker]

Precisely so, Paolo. I suspect you're right in that Greg won't join the list (rules in general are not a forte of his and he's certainly moved on from BRP), but he'll appreciate the courtesy. Thanks for doing this!

Gentlemen, let's move on...

[sinisalo]

Agreed...........

[Trifletraxor]

I've joined! I plan to get back into Glorantha again, 2nd Age probably, but using BRP rules, so spell rules and other stuff will be good!

SGL.

[RosenMcStern]

What? You want to use the Third Age group to make rules for Second Age? Where is the "ban" button in Yahoo Groups?

[Jarulf]

I think what I'd want is for Greg to do something similar to what Green Ronin has done with Freeport. Publish systemless books and license others to do the rulesey bits as they like. Something like that should keep most of us happy I think.

I doubt it'll happen, as I suppose it might require renegotiated deals with Mongoose and perhaps, Moon Design. But I can dream, can't I?

If we're really lucky we'll get a 4th ed book. :innocent:

[GianniVacca]

What? You want to use the Third Age group to make rules for Second Age?

Well, yes, so do I. I am dissatisfied with the rules for theist magic as they stand now, so I plan to use whatever we come up with in the d100 yahoo group for my 2nd Age campaign!

[RosenMcStern]

Just do not say that too loud. We have two Mongoose writers in the group

[lawrence.whitaker]

Hey, I'm all for such debate and tinkerings!

If there's a good solid case for changing something to fit the source material, I'm very happy to discuss. I agree that MRQ magic doesn't quite fit the Gloranthan bill as its stands.