Shield Walls

[MandaClaire]

So how would one handle a shield wall, rules-wise?

For those not familiar with the concept, the front rank of a body of troops overlap their shields, each protecting the man to his left.

The ideas we've come up with are as follows:

• Each type of shield covers set locations. The shield cannot be used to parry, but it automatically protects against these locations at it's full value.
  
• To attack around a shield wall, the attacker must aim for specific hit locations not covered by the shield (legs, weapon arm, etc.).
  
• When one shield wall attacks another, the rules for closing are used (nBRP, page 219).
  
• When two shield walls are pushing against each other to achieve dominance, total the SIZ of all troops in each 'regiment' and apply a suitable divider to allow a roll on the resistance table. Three failed rolls in a row (accounting for attrition, obviously) means the shield wall is broken and normal melee ensues.
  

Can anyone see any issues with this? Any obvious 'broken' assumptions? Are there already BRP rules for a shield wall out there anywhere?

[sdavies2720]

• When two shield walls are pushing against each other to achieve dominance, total the SIZ of all troops in each 'regiment' and apply a suitable divider to allow a roll on the resistance table. Three failed rolls in a row (accounting for attrition, obviously) means the shield wall is broken and normal melee ensues.
  

IIRC, it's only the Mongoose RQ rules that call for dividing down opposing rolls, so you're invoking a house rule for that. But I think it's better than just calculating the resistance from the differences in size, where a line with 1,002 average warriors would almost always best one with 1,000.

To add to the story, for battles of more than a few heroes, I'd divide the opposing forces into several parts (e.g. Left Flank, Center, Right Flank) and do the opposed rolls that way. Much more opportunity for action if the center is holding but one flank is in danger of collapsing.

Steve

[MandaClaire]

To add to the story, for battles of more than a few heroes, I'd divide the opposing forces into several parts (e.g. Left Flank, Center, Right Flank) and do the opposed rolls that way. Much more opportunity for action if the center is holding but one flank is in danger of collapsing.

I like that idea, thanks!

[Shaira]

So how would one handle a shield wall, rules-wise?

[...]

Are there already BRP rules for a shield wall out there anywhere?

The RQ3 supplement "Sun County" sort of dealt with "set shields" in a shield wall, but you've basically hit upon the same thing. In RQ3, slung/set shields protect at half their value - I haven't found if BRP uses the same rule or not, but it sounds reasonable.

Sun County had the shields covering left arm, chest, abdomen. Also, the tactic was sufficiently stationary to prevent *any* parries, including weapon parries - you had to rely on Dodge or just hoping you got hit in the right place.

For shield pushes, I'd use the Knockback spot rules a heckuva lot. For a Phalanx, too, I'd rule that only the front rank could be targeted by melee attacks, although I don't know if that's historically correct. I'm not sure how I'd deal with attempts to break the line - whether Knockback would be resisted not just by the front rank, but also supported by the ranks behind, etc, etc.

It'd be cool to drum up a "Shield Walls" Spot Rule for this - I don't know enough about how they work(ed) historically to be too precise, but it'd be handy to have.

Cheers,

Sarah

[Centaur66]

Intriguing.I'd have thought a Norman would know precisely how to deal with a shield wall,hoho

[Rurik]

[*]When two shield walls are pushing against each other to achieve dominance, total the SIZ of all troops in each 'regiment' and apply a suitable divider to allow a roll on the resistance table. Three failed rolls in a row (accounting for attrition, obviously) means the shield wall is broken and normal melee ensues.

The suitable divider could be the number of individuals in the larger unit.

Example, 1000 average (SIZ 13) men versus 900 average men.

The unit of 1000 would work out to 13 on the resistance table - (1000*13)/1000 = 13

The Unit of 900 would be 12 on the resistance table - (900*13)/1000 = 11.7 or 12.

If the average size of a member in the unit of 900 was 16, they would have the upper hand even though outnumbered. (900*16)/1000 = 14.4

[Shaira]

Intriguing.I'd have thought a Norman would know precisely how to deal with a shield wall,hoho

Actually I'm part of the English Re-invasion. Chuffed with longbows and axes, but generally bewildered by shield walls. This time we're armed with curry and lager though, so are generally thought invincible... :thumb:

[MandaClaire]

I think there's enough here to put together a workable spot-rule. I just know it's going to come up when we start our Vikings campaign as we've all read our Robert Low and Bernard Cornwell, so the first time we encounter any sizable number of opposition, someone will be bound to cry "shield wall!!"

[soltakss]

The trouble with Shield Walls is that they can be broken by a single determined opponent in which case they tend to collapse as the people whose sword arm is nearest the attacker cannot easily parry and the person whose shield arm is nearest the attacker cannot attack easily.

Send in a couple of Berserkers or a really big warhorse, elephant or giant and a shield wall falls apart and everyone runs away.

[Merak Gren]

Send in a couple of Berserkers or a really big warhorse, elephant or giant and a shield wall falls apart and everyone runs away.

That reminds me. I was reading RQ Vikings last night and saw the special rules for worship without Godi. The spirit possession of the agent of the god bit. Beserkergang divine spell at will! However often they wish.

Blimey. Invulnerable to edged and piercing weapons and acts as beserk.

If that doesn't open up a shield wall nothing will.

[sinisalo]

The trouble with Shield Walls is that they can be broken by a single determined opponent in which case they tend to collapse as the people whose sword arm is nearest the attacker cannot easily parry and the person whose shield arm is nearest the attacker cannot attack easily.....snip

I've seen close order tactics used by the police (ie not the rubber sword contigent). Where holes opened up by determined battering - mounted police and coppers with smaller shields in the rear plugged the gap. The flanks were protected by dog handlers.

I've always wondered whether the benefits of coherence and support really compared with the loss of frontage (ie length of the line). I think the shear solidness of shieldwall tactics, even though they are mostly static, explains why both later roman and barbarian armies used it.

All IMHO

[soltakss]

I've seen close order tactics used by the police (ie not the rubber sword contigent). Where holes opened up by determined battering - mounted police and coppers with smaller shields in the rear plugged the gap. The flanks were protected by dog handlers.

Determined battering by a Berserker with a couple of axes is a bit different from some yobbo with a baseball bat. But, yers, it can be filled in. The trick is to have some warriors follow up the Berserker/warhorse/elephant/giant and keep the gap open.

I've always wondered whether the benefits of coherence and support really compared with the loss of frontage (ie length of the line). I think the shear solidness of shieldwall tactics, even though they are mostly static, explains why both later roman and barbarian armies used it.

Deep shieldwalls are more like phalanxes anyway. Narrow shieldwalls, perhaps 3 or 4 deep, can be broken more easily. But, sitting on top of a hillock with a round Shieldwall filled in with warriors is a very strong position to be in.