Artists in Setting Creation

[HollyKnight55]

I've been thinking about how challenging it seems to be to create a successful Science Fiction RPG. In the end, I think it comes down to visuals. Have a great setting, or course, but we also need to know what the "aliens" are like. You can write a single paragraph that perfectly summarizes a race's looks, or write pages on looks & culture, but it will not have the same impact as good art. The same goes for spaceships. I likely wouldn't have much tactical fighter combat in a game I would run (although I might enjoy a separate space combat tabletop game), but I'd still like to see how the different ships look.

I suppose that's why SciFi RPGs based on movies or shows do better. People already have those graphics in mind.

As an aspiring writer, I feel jealous - and inferior - to an artist. Anyone can write, and I would think you'd have to be an awful good writer to convince an artist that is capable of writing for themselves to work with you instead.

Even with a fantasy game - the art in Earthdawn (1st edition), for example, ABSOLUTELY sets the tone for the game. It feels both like familiar fantasy, and strangely alien, ancient and exotic. THAT was a great combination of artists and writers.

Looking around, there are more writers begging for artists than the reverse. In truth, I think the two should be working together. An artist might start with what the writer comes up with, but will be inspired to throw some new stuff in there that in turn will inspire the writer.

Man, I need to find a partner like that.

[Ars Mysteriorum]

*snip*Anyone can write*snip*

Have you SEEN the internet!?

[cjbowser]

Anyone can write,

And anyone can draw. What's at stake is the quality of the end product.

That being said, a good artist can really help bring a setting to life. However, good art can't overcome shoddy writing.

One of the first things I do when I receive a new RPG book is flip through and look at the art and often wish I could draw/paint that well. I can't. I'm lucky to produce stick figures.

As for writers and artists working together, I've had no say whatsoever over the art for any book I've submitted for professional publication. The publisher sources the art and make the final decision on what art is appropriate. Usually I'm pleasantly surprised with the quality and evocativeness of the art. It far surpasses what I was imagining as a 'nice piece.'

For fan produced material and companies where the above anecdote may not hold true, a really talented team could produce top shelf material.

[Jason D]

I've worked in creating fantasy and science fiction settings, and I'll say unequivocally that creating sci-fi worlds is much, much harder.

Fantasy worlds inhabit a strange space in between history and myth, and are well-supported. Genre tropes such as magic, enchanted weapons, traditional fantasy races, etc. are all so commonly understood that usually one has to work hard to explain why things aren't the default (i.e., Tolkienesque fantasy).

You really only need to see a guy with some sort of leather/metal armor, a sword in his hand, and a wizard next to him and you've pretty much got a generic fantasy universe in a nutshell.

Science-fiction, on the other hand, has so many tones, sub-genres, and tropes that it requires a huge amount more explanation and buy-in from the reader. Is it trans-humanist? Cyberpunk? Utopian? Dystopian? Far-future? Space opera? Hard sci-fi? etc.

I think the difficulty of selling science fiction settings to the audience is why there have been relatively few successful sci-fi RPGs that aren't based on licensed properties.

Art's effect is mostly a neutral or negative one. Bad art will sink a game, while good art can't save it if the prose and creative vision aren't there.

After Traveller, Fading Suns, Battletech, Spacemaster, and Alternity, I draw a blank trying to think of successful science fiction RPGs. And even the latter of those didn't do that well. Aeon/Trinity? Hard Nova? Space Opera? Shatterzone?

[vagabond]

Well, take a look at Skyrealms of Jorune. An artist and a writer (well, sort of)

came up with it in high school. Kind of Sci-Fantasy, but frickin wonderful

nonetheless.

Return to Jorune

-V

[Ars Mysteriorum]

I've worked in creating fantasy and science fiction settings, and I'll say unequivocally that creating sci-fi worlds is much, much harder.

Fantasy worlds inhabit a strange space in between history and myth, and are well-supported. Genre tropes such as magic, enchanted weapons, traditional fantasy races, etc. are all so commonly understood that usually one has to work hard to explain why things aren't the default (i.e., Tolkienesque fantasy).

You really only need to see a guy with some sort of leather/metal armor, a sword in his hand, and a wizard next to him and you've pretty much got a generic fantasy universe in a nutshell.

Science-fiction, on the other hand, has so many tones, sub-genres, and tropes that it requires a huge amount more explanation and buy-in from the reader. Is it trans-humanist? Cyberpunk? Utopian? Dystopian? Far-future? Space opera? Hard sci-fi? etc.

I think the difficulty of selling science fiction settings to the audience is why there have been relatively few successful sci-fi RPGs that aren't based on licensed properties.

Art's effect is mostly a neutral or negative one. Bad art will sink a game, while good art can't save it if the prose and creative vision aren't there.

After Traveller, Fading Suns, Battletech, Spacemaster, and Alternity, I draw a blank trying to think of successful science fiction RPGs. And even the latter of those didn't do that well. Aeon/Trinity? Hard Nova? Space Opera? Shatterzone?

My name is Ars Mysteriorum, and I approve of the above statement.

Brought to you by the Council for Advancement From Genre Cliches.

Fantasy Game Consists of:

Game Creator: WIZARDS! SWORDS!

Bulk of Players: YAY!!!

A Few Others, as well as some of the Bulk of Players: FANTASY HEARTBREAKER!

Sci-Fi Game Consists of:

GC: LASERS! SPACESHIPS!

BoP: Dude, lasers are lame.

GC: Oh... RAIL GUNS!

BoP: We have rail guns, NOW. They're kinda lame.

GC: Hmmm... rocket guns!

BoP: Had them years ago. They didn't work at short range.

GC: How about bullets that explode when they hit a target?

BoP: Bolters in Warhammer 40,000.

GC: Fine LIGHT SPEED!

BoP: Not really feasible due to Einstein's Theory of Relativity, how about using a jump drive or wormholes instead?

GC: Aha! SPACE WIZARDS! LASER SWORDS!

BoP: That's Star Wars.

GC: FINE! A bunch of stupid monkeys take over the planet.

BoP: Planet of the Apes.

GC: *HRGRK*... OK. How about a setting where Androids have rebelled against humanity and now there's a huge war between the two?

BoP: Dune, and, subsequently, Warhammer 40,000, the Matrix, and Blade Runner to a lesser extent.

GC: Dark, evil entities at the edges of space threaten the sanity of mankind!

BoP: That's Call of Cthulhu, and there's a monograph called Cthulhu Rising and another game called Cthulhu Tech.

GC: WIZARDS! SWORDS! IN A MODERN SETTING!

BoP: LAME!

And it goes on.

What's funniest about this whole thing is that Fantasy is considered "original" and maintains popularity provided it adheres to Tolkienesque races. If it gets too original, it eventually fades to a very, very small niche.

But when a creator makes sci-fi, it seems 100% originality is expected, as well as adherence to at least some science. The best one can do is combine ingredients that haven't been around for a while and look "new" enough to appease the public, but not so "new" that players can't relate to it.

This, of course, is coming from my limited perceptions on the gaming market, and thus I may be full of large, wet bags of flaming poo.

[Jason D]

Well, take a look at Skyrealms of Jorune. An artist and a writer (well, sort of)

came up with it in high school. Kind of Sci-Fantasy, but frickin wonderful

nonetheless.

Return to Jorune

-V

Dooh!

Forgot about one of the classics.

I've always been a Jorune fan, though haven't been able to run it successfully, ever.

Plus, artist Miles Teves gets bonus points for making it from the pen-and-paper industry to Hollywood, and having a goddess for a wife.

[Hound of Tindalos]

As a sci-fi/fantasy illustrator I'd jump at the chance to work with anyone on graphics for an rpg.

[vagabond]

Dooh!

Forgot about one of the classics.

I've always been a Jorune fan, though haven't been able to run it successfully, ever.

Plus, artist Miles Teves gets bonus points for making it from the pen-and-paper industry to Hollywood, and having a goddess for a wife.

I forgive you

And, yeah, major props to Miles for his successes - daaaaayummmm !

-V

[Dredj]

My name is Ars Mysteriorum, and I approve of the above statement.

Brought to you by the Council for Advancement From Genre Cliches.

Fantasy Game Consists of:

Game Creator: WIZARDS! SWORDS!

Bulk of Players: YAY!!!

A Few Others, as well as some of the Bulk of Players: FANTASY HEARTBREAKER!

Sci-Fi Game Consists of:

GC: LASERS! SPACESHIPS!

BoP: Dude, lasers are lame.

GC: Oh... RAIL GUNS!

BoP: We have rail guns, NOW. They're kinda lame.

GC: Hmmm... rocket guns!

BoP: Had them years ago. They didn't work at short range.

GC: How about bullets that explode when they hit a target?

BoP: Bolters in Warhammer 40,000.

GC: Fine LIGHT SPEED!

BoP: Not really feasible due to Einstein's Theory of Relativity, how about using a jump drive or wormholes instead?

GC: Aha! SPACE WIZARDS! LASER SWORDS!

BoP: That's Star Wars.

GC: FINE! A bunch of stupid monkeys take over the planet.

BoP: Planet of the Apes.

GC: *HRGRK*... OK. How about a setting where Androids have rebelled against humanity and now there's a huge war between the two?

BoP: Dune, and, subsequently, Warhammer 40,000, the Matrix, and Blade Runner to a lesser extent.

GC: Dark, evil entities at the edges of space threaten the sanity of mankind!

BoP: That's Call of Cthulhu, and there's a monograph called Cthulhu Rising and another game called Cthulhu Tech.

GC: WIZARDS! SWORDS! IN A MODERN SETTING!

BoP: LAME!

And it goes on.

What's funniest about this whole thing is that Fantasy is considered "original" and maintains popularity provided it adheres to Tolkienesque races. If it gets too original, it eventually fades to a very, very small niche.

But when a creator makes sci-fi, it seems 100% originality is expected, as well as adherence to at least some science. The best one can do is combine ingredients that haven't been around for a while and look "new" enough to appease the public, but not so "new" that players can't relate to it.

This, of course, is coming from my limited perceptions on the gaming market, and thus I may be full of large, wet bags of flaming poo.

This is definitely off subject, but the game Shock:Social Science Fiction has an interesting take on the sci-fi genre: the players come up with scenarios that are based on social issues--or issues that could be social issues. and the game world is created around them. The system itself is not compatible with BRP (or is it?), but it has good ideas and the site has actual gameplay examples shock: social science fiction

Sorry, I'm having a difficult time explaining this game, but I don't have my book by me and I've never encountered a system like this before. However, this could maybe be mined for how to create a sci-fi game that might use BRP.

Actually, here's a review of the game from the site: RPGnet : Review of Sci-Fi Week: Shock: Social Science Fiction

[rust]

This is definitely off subject, but the game Shock: Social

Science Fiction has an interesting take on the sci-fi genre...

Thank you very much for the information and the links !

Although my bank account keeps screaming "No, don't !", I obviously have to

buy this RPG - apart from being a most unusual and interesting game, it could

make an excellent tool to give my water world setting some more depth (ah,

kind of a pun ...).

[sladethesniper]

I agree that having Good Art is important in making a game "successful", not necessarily "good".

Most successful games have good art (with White Wolf's offerings being the exception...if Bradstreet hadn't done the covers and the chapter art, the game might not have been that popular...)

The most iconic games have excellent art that ties in with the story and the setting...it sets the tone for the game. The two best examples are Planescape and Warhammer 40,000. The artwork brings the setting to life. Granted, both would have been good games minus the artwork, but the prose and the art worked in harmony.

Shadowrun did this quite well also, but BattleTech...not so much.

Rifts did this very well (at least the stuff *not* done by Crazy Kevin).

Granted games with not so awesome artwork still are good games (Call of Cthulhu core book and Stormbringer come to mind) but much less successful overall.

Just my two cents. I shall now await the mobs with torches...

-STS

[Hound of Tindalos]

Hey Slade, got your PM. Apparently I don't have enough posts under my belt to reply back, but I am interested.

Shoot me an email at cthulhu.keeper@gmail.com

-Hound

[Dredj]

Thank you very much for the information and the links !

Although my bank account keeps screaming "No, don't !", I obviously have to

buy this RPG - apart from being a most unusual and interesting game, it could

make an excellent tool to give my water world setting some more depth (ah,

kind of a pun ...).

I always appreciate you appreciating the information and links I provide. This game is definitely one of the most interesting games I've ever come across. And I think it deserves much more notice than it's probably getting. Plus, after playing a session of this game, it's possible you'd have a very original setting for playing BRP in:)

My bank account screams at me so much I think I'm going deaf:lol:

Here's a game I know nothing about beyond the product description, but seems to be in the same vein as Shock.

IPR :: By Genre :: Science Fiction :: Universalis (Revised Edition) But this game seems more like competitive story telling instead of world building like Shock.

[rust]

Here's a game I know nothing about beyond the product description, but seems to be in the same vein as Shock.

Yep, it also looks very interesting, but currently I am mostly looking for stuff

that could enable me to improve my setting (deep in my heart I am probably

more a world builder than a roleplayer ... :eek:), and Universalis seems to create

a different setting each time it is played, and seems to put comparatively

little emphasis on settings.