Spirit Combat

[Ian Cooper]

Runequest established the idea of spirit combat, as well as bound spirits. Whilst in Heroquest we mention a bound spirit as a retainer, and have 'monsters' like ghosts there is no real discussion of how to handle spirit combat in Heroquest. Now, of course, we don't need special mechanics to handle resolution in Heroquest, but I have been thinking a little about how you might handle this aspect in Heroquest if you wanted to.

• Spirit combat must involve a disembodied spirit. Only a shaman, who can discorporate whilst his fetch inhabits his body, can use spirit combat as an 'attack'. Anyone can initiate spirit combat with a disembodied spirit. Disembodied spirits are found at spirit places. 
• A PC uses their highest rated rune in spirit combat as thier ability.
• A defeat represents psychic damage and provides a penalty to using that rune.
• A victory represents a psychic boost that can be used when using that rune.
• A complete defeat represents possession by the spirit, who now inhabits the body, and the character is under GM control.
• A shaman could initiate spirit combat to exorcise the possessing spirit, thus freeing a possessed character and effectively returning them to the game.
• A complete victory allows the PC to 'bind' the spirit and it becomes a follower. The spirit 'dissappears' at the end of the episode unless the PC cements it by spending a hero point. A spirit must be bound into a magic god's blood crystal, if the PC has one, or an animal if a suitable one can be found. Use the normal follower rules for this bound spirit. A spirit bound into a crystal mainly helps with magical contests, the GM should use a credibility test to determine if it can help a PC outside the use of magic.

I'm deliberately avoiding special rules. A key goal of Heroquest Core/Glorantha was to remove all of those. So these just identifies how you would use the core rules to model this.

It's possible we might want to give some kind of 'specific ability bonus' to use of the Spirit Rune here. I'm not sure.

Thoughts? @David Scott?

Edited September 23, 2016 by Ian Cooper

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Ian Cooper said:

Whilst in Heroquest we mention a bound spirit as a retainer, and have 'monsters' like ghosts there is no real discussion of how to handle spirit combat in Heroquest.

Good topic.  I came across this in one of my early Orlmarth campaign sessions where a Lunar witch directed a group of disembodied spirits of darkness to assail a ceremony.  The Orlmarthi had very little defense for this attack, though the attack was defeated and the spirits driven off.

A few factors that I used or considered applicable:

• "Unliving" weapons could not harm disembodied spirits.  A weapon containing a bound spirit or that was magically enchanted could be applied against a spirit though and would use it's current rating.  Dyrrkind's Sword of Death 2W (a breakout from his Death rune) and Orlrik's magical sword Drunbrahn 17 (a standalone 'companion') were both viable.
• Magics from Runes were usable.  Orlrik could use his Incredible Speed (+1 breakout from his Movement rune at 1W) as part of his attack against the spirits.
• Any ability that specifically notes 'Spirit xxx' might be viable to use (e.g. Charm to Shield against Spirits 13)
• A grimoire with a spell effective against Spirits could be used (e.g. Dismiss Spirit from the grimoire Challath's Lectures on the Nature of the Spiritual Essences)

4 hours ago, Ian Cooper said:

Spirit combat must involve a disembodied spirit. Only a shaman, who can discorporate whilst his fetch inhabits his body, can use spirit combat as an 'attack'.

Since I also provided a method for a shaman to help others discorporate and enter the Spirit World, I considered that they could attack spirits on the spirit plane.  However, physical weapons (unless magically enchanted) don't work there.  But,... they were able to gather certain objects from the mundane world that could work to attack/fight a spirit there (e.g. Sword Grass - a tiny blade of grass with a pair of side leaves that resembles a sword - though utterly useless in the mundane world, it can be wielded in the Spirit World at whatever the user's skill with a sword would be).  I might also add that taken 'divinely' enchanted or sorcerous weapons onto the Spirit Plane is not a good idea as they are recognized as objects that "smell wrong or foreign" to spirits and attract those spirits hostile to the god or goddess or to sorcerers.

4 hours ago, Ian Cooper said:

A PC uses their highest rated rune in spirit combat as their defence

Yes, I think that works fine if they do not have some other relevant ability.

4 hours ago, Ian Cooper said:

• A defeat represents psychic damage and provides a penalty to using that rune.
• A victory represents a psychic boost that can be used when using that rune.

Makes sense.  It might make a difference whether you play a simple or extended contest.  If you are defeated in an Extended Contest, I'd suggest that if the spirit is Hostile, it will always make a parting shot and if successful will possess the body of the defeated character (and then follow what you note on complete defeat).

4 hours ago, Ian Cooper said:

A complete defeat represents possession by the spirit, who now inhabits the body, and the character is under GM control.

Yes, think this makes sense.

4 hours ago, Ian Cooper said:

A complete victory allows the PC to 'bind' the spirit and it becomes a follower. The spirit 'dissappears' at the end of the episode unless the PC binds it by spending a hero point. It can be bound into a magic crystal if the PC has one, or an animal if a suitable one can be found.

Or a Charm, or an enchanted weapon.  There might be some other options too (maybe a sorcerer could bind a spirit into a page of a grimoire?).

A bound spirit can also be used by a PC as another means to fight a discorporate spirit (if commanded/released from its binding object).

4 hours ago, Ian Cooper said:

It's possible we might want to give some kind of 'specific ability bonus' to use of the Spirit Rune here

I'd be inclined to do so.

 

[David Scott]

I'm just dipping into this as I think an example would be better. 

On 23/09/2016 at 5:46 PM, Ian Cooper said:

A PC uses their highest rated rune in spirit combat as thier ability.

Spirit magic can "hang" off a number of runes, spirit being the most obvious. Trolls can hang theirs off darkness, chaos, off chaos, storm Bulls off the eternal battle etc.

You can only use your spirit rune, cultural spirit magic rune or a plausible break out from another keyword as their ability. Those with no ability in dealing with spirits may be in trouble  

Eg 

movement 2w

dance with spirits +1

---

Life 15w

Treat disease spirits +2

---

the breakouts can be stretched, but that's okay as it demonstrates ability.

On 23/09/2016 at 5:46 PM, Ian Cooper said:

• A defeat represents psychic damage and provides a penalty to using that rune.
• A victory represents a psychic boost that can be used when using that rune.

Best defined like the examples in the text of benefit of victory and defeat  

On 23/09/2016 at 5:46 PM, Ian Cooper said:

A complete defeat represents possession by the spirit, who now inhabits the body, and the character is under GM control.

Only if that was its goal, it may want to kill you or just weaken you or steal some life force  

On 23/09/2016 at 5:46 PM, Ian Cooper said:

A complete victory allows the PC to 'bind' the spirit and it becomes a follower. The spirit 'dissappears' at the end of the episode unless the PC cements it by spending a hero point. A spirit must be bound into a magic god's blood crystal, if the PC has one, or an animal if a suitable one can be found. Use the normal follower rules for this bound spirit. A spirit bound into a crystal mainly helps with magical contests, the GM should use a credibility test to determine if it can help a PC outside the use of magic.

These are actually just the verbose make a charm rules. Just needs to be the correct type of charm container e.g., a cats cradle for a waha spirit (as per HeroQuest Glorantha). Normally the spirit would be friendly, this represents something more  

 

On 23/09/2016 at 5:46 PM, Ian Cooper said:

It's possible we might want to give some kind of 'specific ability bonus' to use of the Spirit Rune here. I'm not sure.

No, could be a breakout eg, spirit rune 15w spirit warrior+1, augmented by spirit talker 1w.

those prepared for spirit combat will be rare outside spirit traditions. 

[Ian Cooper]

On 23/09/2016 at 10:14 PM, jajagappa said:

GA few factors that I used or considered applicable:

• "Unliving" weapons could not harm disembodied spirits.  A weapon containing a bound spirit or that was magically enchanted could be applied against a spirit though and would use it's current rating.  Dyrrkind's Sword of Death 2W (a breakout from his Death rune) and Orlrik's magical sword Drunbrahn 17 (a standalone 'companion') were both viable.
• Magics from Runes were usable.  Orlrik could use his Incredible Speed (+1 breakout from his Movement rune at 1W) as part of his attack against the spirits.
• Any ability that specifically notes 'Spirit xxx' might be viable to use (e.g. Charm to Shield against Spirits 13)
• A grimoire with a spell effective against Spirits could be used (e.g. Dismiss Spirit from the grimoire Challath's Lectures on the Nature of the Spiritual Essences)

Yes it makes sense to me for magic to be able to effect spirits, even though they are not disembodied. I would count it as a stretch unless the magic was specifically oriented to this though (for example I seem to recall some proposal (not official) for RQ spirit combat that let the 4 points of enchantment for Bladesharp 4 affect the spirit but not the blade. Hence why I think this is a stretch penalty.

[Ian Cooper]

On 24/09/2016 at 10:19 PM, David Scott said:

Spirit magic can "hang" off a number of runes, spirit being the most obvious. Trolls can hang theirs off darkness, chaos, off chaos, storm Bulls off the eternal battle etc.

You can only use your spirit rune, cultural spirit magic rune or a plausible break out from another keyword as their ability. Those with no ability in dealing with spirits may be in trouble 

My concern here is that its pretty established that everyone gets some defense against magic. But I agree that perhaps it is a stretch on any rune that is not oriented towards spirits or spirit combat.

[Ian Cooper]

On 24/09/2016 at 10:19 PM, David Scott said:

These are actually just the verbose make a charm rules. Just needs to be the correct type of charm container e.g., a cats cradle for a waha spirit (as per HeroQuest Glorantha). Normally the spirit would be friendly, this represents something more 

I assumed in most cases that a charm was a friendly entity that you could negotiate with, but spirit combat was a fight with a hostile entity. We do have an example in HQ:G of an allied spirit as a follower (a sidekick) so it seemed like one way to model it

[David Scott]

In HeroQuest that's the case, making charms is not normally something to do in game - not a story generator, so the default is friendly and it just works. I'd use this for a shaman wanting to capture a hostile spirit into a charm, nut only if it added to the story otherwise i'd just bump the difficulty.

[David Scott]

I've been thinking long and hard about an appropriate spirit combat example. I now realise the most obvious would be combating disease spirits. I realised that I'd written up how they work for the Prax book and that of course they work through spirit combat. I'm going to have a go at an example later. I based this on the diseases already available in RQ2, the descriptions still apply I haven't added in the specials that I think were in Lords of Terror. The quote below is for info (not comment):

Quote

The common diseases are associated with the Darkness Rune and are normally non-fatal [...] They include: Black Boils, Black Tongue, Bleeding Disease, Bloat, Blotches, Boggle Trot, Brittleskin, Creeping Crudd, Convulsions, Fever, Joint Rot, Ringing (tinnitus), Slow Withers, Sneezing/Sniffles, Thunder Lung, White Eye, and Withering Disease.

The mortal diseases are associated with the Death Rune and are normally fatal unless treated. They include: Blood Lung, Brain Fever, Creeping Chills, The Shakes and Wasting Disease which has three types - Body, Spirit and Soul.

[...] - the Plague, whose spirit is associated with the Chaos Rune. 

Any level of success by a disease spirit or disease charm will alway infect the target, the state of adversity determines the level of infection. To recover, the spirit must be driven out, removed or destroyed.

 

Edited October 27, 2016 by David Scott

[David Scott]

Spirit Combat Example for HeroQuest Glorantha

So here is an example I worked through to see how spirit combat might look in Heroquest Glorantha. I've done it in the same style as the examples I did in the book. There's likely a typo or three in there, but you'll get the gist of what I'm doing. Nearly 3000 words later...

Setting

Let’s set the scene - our heroes are in Snakepipe Hollow. Fil-ith, a powerful and intelligent broo Rune Priest of the Cult of Mallia (page 39 in the Classic Edition), has unleashed his three disease spirits onto our unsuspecting heroes. He carries the diseases Creeping Chills, Shakes, Soul Waste, are are mortal diseases associated with the Death Rune. Page 34 of Snakepipe Hollow gives a good description of these disease spirits. The campaign has been running for a while now, so the Base Difficulty is 1W. All dice are randomly rolled (really!).

 

Characters

Orensulva, Curious Scribe from Nochet , Lhankor Mhy Sorcerer

Herrox, Energetic High Llama Spirit-talker of the Blue Llama clan 

Vargast the Thunderer, Proud Thane of the Orlmarthing clan

All can be found in HeroQuest Glorantha from page 53 and are as written.

-----

Claudia says to David “As Herrox is a Spirit-talker he gets a strange feeling from the unseen Spirit World around him”

“I pause for a moment, unfocus my eyes and raising my hand make the seeing gesture to peer into the Spirit World. Can I use my Spirit rune augmented by my Spirit-talker?

“Sure, we are using the Quick Augment rule (HQG p104) now so it’s divide your ability by 5 and round up. So divide your Spirit-talker by 5 and round it up.”

“So thats 17, giving me a +3 to my Spirit rune of 5W giving 8W.

“You need to overcome the difficulty of 1W with your 8W, masteries cancel, giving me an 1 against your rating of 8. Time to roll the dice.”

Claudia rolls a 5 on her d20 and David an 8.
“My 5 is a failure and your 8 is a success. Herrox has a Minor Victory. There are spirits around, you’re pretty sure they are disease spirits as you can feel their malevolence. You’re just not sure what sort of disease spirits”.

 

David tells the others ,“Okay there are disease spirits around and it’s likely they are coming for us.”

Christine says “Orensulva has nothing to help against spirits what can I do?”

Neil says “Don’t worry, Vargast has Firewind who will protect us”

 

Claudia cuts Neil off, “Before you finish, three giant translucent stick-like figures with wavering outlines and gaping holes where their mouth and eyes should be.”

“How giant is giant” says Neil.

“About 4 metres tall and a metre wide, each is a different colour: black, green and yellow. Herrox realises they are the mortal diseases of Creeping Chills, Shakes, and Soul Waste.”

“Mortal?”

“Mortal means they will eventually kill you if they infect you, one goes for each of you. Lets frame the contest, what do you want the outcome to be?”

“Herrox will destroy the spirits, less disease in the world is clearly a good thing”.

“Vargast will get Firewind to burn the disease spirit away. Firewind will act as a Contestant”.

“Orensulva will, err…, make the protective sign to ward off disease that all Esrolians know”.

Claudia decides that this should be an extended contest as the outcome is important.

 

“Herrox lets start with you, the black spirit lunges towards you trying to enter your body”.

“I reach out with my Spirit and smash at it. Zortan is going to be a supporter for me as I’m not sure he can do anything else. I use my spirit-talker as the augment again for this giving me 8W.”

“You need to overcome the difficulty of 1W with your 8W”.

“Won’t it be easier as I’m a Spirit-talker”.

“It’s already just moderate difficulty for you, if you were a full shaman, it would be low. masteries cancel, giving me an 1 against your rating of 8. Time to roll the dice.”

Claudia rolls a 16 on her d20 and David an 4.
“My 16 is a failure and your 4 is a success. Herrox’s spirit crushes into the disease spirit, and he scores 2 points.

“Okay Neil, what does Vargast do, the green spirit lunges towards you trying to enter your body”.

“Firewind smashes in to it, his magical Winds of Fire 1W seeking to burn the disease spirit, and I unleash my Lightning Spear 12W to vaporise it. Can I augment Firewind’s ability with his Air Elemental 4W?”

“No, it’s a disease spirit so its form would be unaffected by the wind. Masteries cancel, giving me an 1 against your rating of 1. Time to roll the dice.”

Claudia rolls a 6 on her d20 and Neil an 7.
“My 6 is a failure and your 7 is a failure. My failure was higher than your failure, so the disease spirit scores 1 point”.

 

“Vargast now unleashes his Lightning Spear 12W to vaporise it.”

“Your in a cave underground - does that work?”

“Sure, the clouds above Snakepipe Hollow start to darken and swirl and a huge storm starts to build”.

“Cool, it works but as you are underground it’s a stretch, so 12W -6 is 6W. Because you are a second opponent, the spirit is at minus 3, 7W minus 3 is 4W. You need to overcome the difficulty of 4W with your 6W”.

“Why is the difficulty higher? I thought it was 1W”.

“The base difficulty is Moderate if you are familiar in dealing with spirits, as you are a not, it’s High. Base 1W plus 6 is 7W minus 3 Multiple opponent penalty”.  

Masteries cancel, giving me a 4 against your rating of 6. Time to roll the dice.”

Claudia rolls a 15 on her d20 and Neil an 9.
“My 15 is a failure and your 9 is a failure. My failure was higher than your failure, so the disease spirit scores 1 point”.

 

“So Christine, what does Orensulva do, the yellow spirit lunges towards you trying to enter your body”?”

“Orensulva makes the protective sign to ward off disease that all Esrolians know”.

“Okay what kind of magic is that?”

“It’s a special hand gesture that my mother taught me, it’s a kind of warding off the Evil Eye thing”.

“Okay that sounds like a stretch from your Esrolian culture”

“Yes, Oresulva has Esrolian culture at 13. I really need to get some spells to help me, but it’s a bit late now…”.

“So 13-6 is 9. You need to overcome the difficulty of 7W with your 9. That gives me a 7W against your rating of 9. Time to roll the dice.”

Claudia rolls a 1 on her d20 and Christine a 4.
“My 1 is a critical and your 4 is a success. I have a mastery over you and bump your success down to a failure. The spirit pushes past your gesture, you can feel it filling your mouth and nose. The disease spirit scores 3 points”.

“This doesn’t bode well” says Christine.

“Don’t worry Herrox will save you shortly, just let me deal with this spirit first.

 

So at the end of the first round:

 

Herrox 2, Creeping Chills 0

Vargast 0, Shakes 1

Firewind 0 Shakes 1

Orensulva 0, Soul Waste 3

 

“Next round, Herrox, the black spirit moves back and then strikes again”.

“I stand fast with my Spirit and smash at it again.” 

“You need to overcome the difficulty of 1W with your 8W. Masteries cancel, giving me an 1 against your rating of 8. Time to roll the dice.”

Claudia rolls a 16 on her d20 and David an 3.
“My 16 is a failure and your 4 is a success. Herrox’s spirit crushes the disease spirit again, and he scores another 2 points for a total of 4.

 

“Okay Neil, Firewind first”.

“Firewind smashes in to it again.”

“You need to overcome the difficulty of 1W with your 1W. Masteries cancel, giving me an 1 against your rating of 1. Time to roll the dice.”

Claudia rolls a 6 on her d20 and Neil an 7.
“My 12 is a failure and your 3 is a failure. My failure was higher than your failure, so the disease spirit scores another point for a total of 2”.

 

“Okay Neil, now Vargast”.

“The storm above is building, I feel the power coursing through me”

“You’re too deep beneath the Earth to feel the storm, maybe in a few rounds it will be big enough. It’s still a stretch, so 12W -6 is 6W. Because you are a second opponent, the spirit is still at minus 3, 7W minus 3 is 4W. You need to overcome the difficulty of 4W with your 6W”. Masteries cancel, giving me a 4 against your rating of 6. Time to roll the dice.”

Claudia rolls a 8 on her d20 and Neil an 6.
“My 8 is a failure and your 6 is a success. The dark form of the spirit lights up from the lighting, it screams in agony. You score 2 points against the disease spirit.”.

 

“Okay Christine, what does Orensulva do, the yellow spirit is all over her face and pushing down her throat”?”

“She’s panicking, so tries to run from the spirit”.

“Okay, that sounds she’s trying to disengage from the contest”

“Yes, she runs back the way she came in”

“What are you going to use as a running ability”

“She’s not very athletic, so it will have to be her Esrolian culture again”

“It’s a stretch, so same numbers again. You need to overcome the difficulty of 7W with your 9. That gives me a 7W against your rating of 9. Time to roll the dice.”

Claudia rolls a 16 on her d20 and Christine a 6.

“My 16 is a failure, but bumped to a success by my mastery. Your 6 is a success. My success is higher than yours. The spirit stays attached to you even after you’ve run a short distance, it scores another point for a total of 4”.

Christine looks worried.

 

So at the end of the second round:

Herrox 4, Creeping Chills 0

Vargast 2, Shakes 1

Firewind 0 Shakes 2

Orensulva 0, Soul Waste 4

 

“Next round. Herrox, the black spirit is starting to loose cohesion, it looks somehow fainter”.

“I smash at it again.”

“Same numbers”

Claudia rolls a 3 on her d20 and David an 5.
“My 3 is a failure and your 5 is a success. Herrox scores another 2 points for a total of 6. The spirit is knocked out of the contest.

“Phew”

 

“Okay Neil, Firewind same numbers”.

Claudia rolls a 11 on her d20 and Neil an 8.
“My 12 is a failure and your 3 is a failure. My failure was higher than your failure, so the disease spirit scores another point for a total of 3. Firewind is knocked out of the contest”.

“What!, that was only 3 points.”

“Companions only have 3 points, they aren’t heroes”.

 

“Okay Neil, now Vargast”.

“Vargast is pretty upset that Firewind has taken a big hit.”

“Same numbers”.

Claudia rolls a 12 on her d20 and Neil a 17.
“My 12 is a failure and your 17 is a failure. Your failure is higher and the spirit recoils again. You another point against the disease spirit for a total of 3.”

“Man this is hard. We are no good against spirits unless we got some kind of special magic”.

 

“Okay Christine, what does Orensulva do, the yellow spirit is is pushing deeper inside her”?”

“She’s panicking more, she can’t scream as the spirit is in her throat, she starts tearing at her throat”.

“Same numbers”

Claudia rolls a 19 on her d20 and Christine a 12.

“My 19 is a failure, but bumped to a success by my mastery. Your 9 is a failure. My success is higher than yours. The spirit disappears inside her, scoring another 2 points for a total of scores another point for a total of 6. Orensulva is out of the contest”.

 

So at the end of the third round:

Herrox 6, Creeping Chills 0

Vargast 3, Shakes 1

Firewind 0 Shakes 3

Orensulva 0, Soul Waste 6

 

“Okay, so what is Herrox going to do now”.

“I’m going for a Parting Shot”

“Why are you doing that” asks Neil.

“It’s not enough to just knock it out of the contest, I need to destroy it and 6 points isn’t enough”

Claudia asks “What’s Herrox going to do to achieve this?”

“I start to chant Lucky Star’s Curse for Mallia”

“What’s that then?”

“Lucky Star washes Mallia’s disease from the face of the earth of course, I’m going to use my Water Rune to augment my Spirit Rune for a total of 10W”.

Sounds good, the difficulty is 1W with your 10W. Masteries cancel, giving me an 1 against your rating of 10, roll.”

Claudia rolls a 2 on her d20 and David an 1.
“My 2 is a failure and your 1 is a critical. Lucky Star’s spirit washes over the spirit, scoring 3 points, the total is now 9.

 

“Okay Neil, now Vargast. The storm is now lashing the Hollow above, your stretch is down to -3 and you are the only opponent. The difficulty is 7W with your 9W”. Masteries cancel, giving me a 7 against your rating of 9. Roll the dice.”

Claudia rolls a 3 on her d20 and Neil a 10.
“My 3 is a success and your 10 is a failure. The spirit slams into you, scoring 2 points for a total of 4”.

 

Claudia address Christine dramatically, “Orensulva is unconscious, her very soul being eaten by the disease”.

 

So at the end of the fourth round:

Herrox 9, Creeping Chills 0

Vargast 3, Shakes 3

Firewind 0 Shakes 3

Orensulva 0, Soul Waste 6

 

“Herrox, same numbers”.

“I’m not sure that I can do anything for Orensulva at the moment, but I can certainly help with the Shakes spirit”

The difficulty is 1W with your 8W. Masteries cancel, giving me an 1 against your rating of 8. Time to roll the dice.”

Claudia rolls a 20 on her d20 and David a 7.
“My 20 is a fumble and your 7 is a success. Herrox’s spirit smashes the spirit,  scoring 3 points.

 

End of the fifth round

Herrox 6, Creeping Chills 0

Herrox 3, Shakes 0

Vargast 3, Shakes 3

Firewind 0 Shakes 3

Orensulva 0, Soul Waste 6

 

David say to Neil, “can you assist me in this final strike. Combined, we should be able to take it out”

“Sure, Vargast wants to assist Herrox in this round”

“Great” says Claudia “What is his action to assist Herrox”

“Inspired by Herrox’s Lucky Star Curse, I call the Storm into the caves to blow this spawn of Mallia out of existence!”

“It’s your Thunderer Feat then, so that’s 12W”

“Augmented by Vargast’s Mastery - steering the Storm into the caves for +4”

“Sounds good,

The difficulty for an assist is moderate, so 1W with your 12W”. Masteries cancel, giving me a 1 against your rating of 12. Roll the dice.”

Claudia rolls a 3 on her d20 and Neil a 5.
“My 3 is a failure and your 5 is a success. You get a Minor Victory, which is -2 to the score against Herrox”

“Oh, that didn’t do what I thought it would”

 

“Herrox, same numbers”.

The difficulty is 1W with your 8W. Masteries cancel, giving me an 1 against your rating of 8, roll the dice.”

Claudia rolls a 17 on her d20 and David a 6.
“My 17 is a failure and your 6 is a success. Herrox’s spirit smashes the spirit,  scoring 2 points, for a total of 5, so it’s knocked out.

 

“I’m going for another Parting Shot, I start to chant Lucky Star’s Curse for Mallia again”

Let’s see if that works s again, the difficulty is 1W again with your 10W. Masteries cancel, giving me an 1 against your rating of 10, roll.”

Claudia rolls a 19 on her d20 and David an 9.
“My 19 is a failure and your 9 is a success. Lucky Star’s spirit washes over the spirit, scoring 2 points, the total is now 7.

 

Final scores

Herrox 9, Creeping Chills 0.

Herrox has a Complete Victory, the Spirit is Destroyed.

Herrox 7, Shakes 0

Herrox has a Complete Victory, the Spirit is Destroyed.

Vargast 3, Shakes 3

Firewind 0 Shakes 3

Firewind has an extra 2 points against him for the purpose of results so is injured.

Orensulva 0, Soul Waste 6

Orensulva has suffered a Major defeat and is possessed by Soul Waste. She will need specialist healing very soon. Herrox can certainly do this.

 

For reference

Mild - spirit reattacks every month

Minor - spirit reattacks every day

Major - spirit reattacks every hour

Complete - spirit reattacks every 5 mins

If the spirit wins it bumps the disease one level.

Edited November 2, 2016 by David Scott
typo fixes

[Noita]

On Thursday, October 27, 2016 at 4:01 PM, David Scott said:

I've been thinking long and hard about an appropriate spirit combat example. I now realise the most obvious would be combating disease spirits. I realised that I'd written up how they work for the Prax book and that of course they work through spirit combat. I'm going to have a go at an example later. I based this on the diseases already available in RQ2, the descriptions still apply I haven't added in the specials that I think were in Lords of Terror. The quote below is for info (not comment):

 

So those strong in the darkness rune could summon/control diseases?

[David Scott]

Simply yes. Mallia's runes are Death, Darkness and Chaos. Darkness for the common diseases, Death for the mortal ones. Those with the appropriate rune could certainly augment in removing disease spirits. As for summoning them, it's probably not appropriate for most people. However I could certainly see trolls doing it in ceremonies to triumph over them. Humakti would certainly get a bonus for dealing with the mortal diseases. Summoning a disease spirit is likely the easiest way to become a mallia initiate.

Edited November 1, 2016 by David Scott

[JonL]

That's a great example, thanks. As I was saying in the sorcery thread, examples that demonstrate the intersection of the mechanics and the more fictive setting elements are a big need, especially for newcomers. Theism is a bit better covered than the others thanks to the cult write-ups, but even those are spread across four books.

[davecake]

I would tend to use consequences of success as much as forcing people to stretches and such in adjudicating spirit combat. A magician who defeats a spirit using their Spirit Rune is able to bind it or other extract a service or destroy it. Someone who uses more generic magic skills to defeat a spirit may find success nearly as easy, but may simply drive it away with no consequences on a win. I don't want spirit combat to always be a huge danger for someone who is not an animist, but I don't want to eliminate the huge advantage animists should have in dealing with spirits either. . 

(which more or mimics a RuneQuest character using Spirit Shield or Spirit Block or similar spells)

 

[jajagappa]

17 hours ago, davecake said:

A magician who defeats a spirit using their Spirit Rune is able to bind it or other extract a service or destroy it. Someone who uses more generic magic skills to defeat a spirit may find success nearly as easy, but may simply drive it away with no consequences on a win.

Yes, this approach makes sense to me.

[Ian Cooper]

On 31/10/2016 at 10:05 PM, David Scott said:

Spirit Combat Example for HeroQuest Glorantha

“Orensulva will, err…, make the protective sign to ward off disease that all Esrolians know”.

Thanks this is awesome.

The example helped as it clarifies that there is probably not much dispute between us on the idea of there being something you could use to resist a spirit, but it would likely be a stretch.

It does make spirit combat hard on those without the relevant magic, but RQ4 is trending that way.

[David Scott]

Thanks @Ian Cooper, I did this with RQ4 in mind. 

[Ian Cooper]

@David Scott I think we should look at a WF for HQ:G that covers off how to pick up some of the ideas in RQ4 like Spirit Combat more clearly and give some notes about running games in the 1627 era of the new source book. Ping me if you have time and are interested