BRP Conan

[Bygoneyrs]

Just follow my above post to mongoose forum and read for yourself what happened. It is all reaveled in total if you read through the total thread.

Penn

[Thalaba]

Scanning through most of it, that thread seems to bear up what I was saying. Mongoose's problems are that (1) it wasn't trying to stick to only REH material (hell, a series of 13 atlases would have been more written material than REH ever wrote for Conan, so they are clearly drawing on other intellectual properties besides just REH), and (2) an intellectual property owner finally pulled the plug because of Mongoose's shoddy production quality.

[Bygoneyrs]

Excuse me...."Thalaba" but you've got some nerve making a statement like that! Mongoose does not now or ever had "Shoddy production quality". I own all there line of 1st and 2nd edition Conan products and everything that they have done for Traveller. They have done a awesome job, and feel your comment is uncalled for and Unfounded as well. If that is your own personial feeling then so be it, but on what do you base it. Do you actually own ANY of their products at all? If so then which ones...? As I said I own everything for those two lines and I feel that they have done a fantastic job on everything they have done.

Penn

[rust]

Sorry to say so, but Mongoose did indeed have serious production quality problems. Most of

it did happen in the years before Traveller was published, when Mongoose attempted to print

roleplaying material themselves, but the early Traveller publications also had some severe pro-

blems - severe enough to cause Mongoose to exchange the bad items for new ones for free,

an offer that still stands for at least one of the first print runs (of High Guard, if I remember it

right).

So, while most of Mongoose's new stuff is fine, they still have a (now mostly undeserved) re-

putation for bad quality, and if you look at the older Planet Mongoose entries, you will find a

series of explanations, apologies and promises to improve by Matt Sprange, who finally deci-

ded to give up the in house printing and search for a reliable printer - a move that became ne-

cessary to save what was left of the company's reputation.

Unfortunately reputations stick, and I know quite a few people over here who told me that they

would never again buy anything from Mongoose after their bad experiences.

[Thalaba]

I own a few things in the RQ line which have warped covers, typos, and so on. But I'm not speaking only from my own experiences with Mongoose, but rather what I've read. This is from the thread you pointed me to:

In light of Mongoose’s announcement on Friday Oct 2, 2009, and subsequent posts, we feel there is a need for Conan Properties to comment on the matter.

First of all, keep in mind that CPI’s President and CEO, Fredrik Malmberg, has been involved in the RPG industry for many years. Around 1979/80, he was an intern at Chaosium and playtested the first editions of Call of Cthulhu and Stormbringer. Gaming has been a part of his working life since then and all decisions are based on these years of experience in, and love for, the gaming industry.

Mongoose has had a six-year run with the Conan RPG. There have been some ongoing contractual issues and quality standard concerns which we are working with Mongoose to correct. We made a decision not to automatically renew a third term when the present license expires, which is little more than one year from now. Instead, we will open the category up for all RPG publishers, including Mongoose, to submit proposals. Thereby we have given Mongoose a significant amount of time to correct the problems prior to the expiration and have welcomed them to present their new proposal and marketing plans.

A system change is not ruled out. We are neither bound to d20, nor opposing any other system for a future Conan RPG. From a business and player perspective, we feel a system change this close to the expiration of the license would be unfair to customers as there is a risk the new system would be abandoned a year from now, if a new licensee is selected. Until their license expires, Mongoose may continue to develop d20 supplements.

The Mongoose license has always been for RPGs and supplements only. The proposed atlas series was never included in the license. Unfortunately, work was started in lieu of this without prior approval and license amendment. CPI has been considering developing a deluxe atlas to explore the Hyborian Age for quite some time, receiving interest from major US publishers.

Jay Zetterberg, Director of Publishing

Conan Properties International

Furthermore, there have been several threads over the years on RPG.net describing books falling apart at the binding, warped covers, loads of typos, etc. I was under the idea that the Conan Atlantean edition was released very quickly after the first edition in order to fix what was really a very poor release.

This very positive review of the Atlatean edition of Conan makes a reference to what came before: http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/10/10974.phtml

Here's a thread on the mongoose forums: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=31210&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Matt Sprange has even acknowledged the problems publicly, and offered replacement books free of charge to many people (for which their customer service was applauded).

I'm sorry if I gave umbrage, but I thought the poor physical quality and proofreading of Mongoose's books was pretty well known. While you might not agree with my comment, it's hardly 'unfounded'.

I have read that their production quality has improved a lot lately, so I guess I was wondering if this was partly as a result of the comments by these Conan people.

[RosenMcStern]

Acknowledging, and fixing, one's mistakes is more productive than not making mistakes at all. Especially because the latter is impossible.

[Bygoneyrs]

ok "Thalaba" I stand corrected and bow my head in saying that I was wrong and to say I am sorry. Now for me I own everything for both Conan and Traveller and all of my books are in great shape and no issues at all. Now because I don't mangle any of my resources, they should all be in perfect quality anyway. I have read and referenced all of my books and still no issue. As to typos or etc, I just fix the issue or over look that altogether anyway. Alot of times I and my own comments or campaign notes in the books as well too anyway.

Penn

[Thalaba]

No worries mate! I like it that you express your enthusiasm for the hobby so openly.

I think a lot of us like to take care of our RPG books - that's partly why it rankles when a book degrades so quickly.

[Bygoneyrs]

Although there was a while there were TSR books for I think D&D ver 2.5 were pretty bad and fell apart oh so quickly if I remember correctly.

Penn

[dragonewt]

Acknowledging, and fixing, one's mistakes is more productive than not making mistakes at all. Especially because the latter is impossible.

Foresight and putting reasonable effort toward not making mistakes (being efficient as opposed to taking shortcuts) is even more productive.

Learning is always productive, and awareness and acknowledgment of mistakes is the best way to begin to address them. Even so, not making mistakes (or as few as is realistic) generally implies foreknowledge and experience (or luck). Therefore to be experienced and not make mistakes is the most productive.

Edited March 7, 2010 by dragonewt

[Trifletraxor]

Excuse me...."Thalaba" but you've got some nerve making a statement like that! Mongoose does not now or ever had "Shoddy production quality".

Their first edition of the "new" RuneQuest rules were horrible. Sound like most of that is fixed with the second edition, but the first edition was beyond shoddy content-wise.

SGL.

[Daxos232]

That BRP conan idea sounds really good from what i've read in the posts. I kinda wish I had just done that myself for my group instead of coming up with my own setting from scratch for my group. I can't seem to find the stuff that was posted for it in the downloads section though.

[Bygoneyrs]

Just use the BRP systemm as your gaming mechanics and get some Conan Mongoose setting books for your background is all you would need to do.

Penn

[Thalaba]

That BRP conan idea sounds really good from what i've read in the posts. I kinda wish I had just done that myself for my group instead of coming up with my own setting from scratch for my group.

Why - are you dissatisfied with your home setting, or finding it too much work?

Edited March 15, 2010 by Thalaba

[Daxos232]

I've been working on and off my setting now for about 2 and a half months now. The reason it's taking me so long is because I wanted to make a good setting and that takes more time than I thought.

I started out using mostly Runequest SRD luxury edition as the base, and adding in stuff from BRP I've play tested with my group a couple times and we discuss all the rules and things we want to change. With further comparison, I don't really like some of the things RQ does, (resilience,persistence,and athletics is lame, the resistance table from BRP is better) so its getting to be more BRP than RQ now. I've finished character creation, equipment, magic, skills list, combat, and some other stuff. Now I just have to make cults/guilds and stuff and make up a crafting system from scratch for the various craft skills.

Conan BRP sounded pretty good because the setting is already there and so are the cultures/cults and things like that, and I think his setting is better than mine lol. I really like R. E. Howard's work, I've read many of his original stories. I'm still going to finish mine though and then maybe do a Conan BRP after.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Daxos232