Mass starvation and Our Heroes

[MOB]

14 hours ago, Darius West said:

I wonder how many people will be cast into the arms of Malia and Cacodemon by the Windstop?

Lots. And Krarsht too.

13 hours ago, Joerg said:

Malia doesn't look that helpful in this situation - freezing to death is not a disease.

Desperate people will try anything, and you don't know know until you try. The disruption to the mytho-magical ecology caused by the Windstop unleashes disease and chaos into the world.

[Joerg]

6 hours ago, MOB said:

Desperate people will try anything, and you don't know know until you try. The disruption to the mytho-magical ecology caused by the Windstop unleashes disease and chaos into the world.

Still the Seven Mothers look to remain a more popular alternative, especially if your folk have already tolerated them before. So how much will Lunar conversions to survive the Windstop figure, and how much of those will remain after Aurochs Hills? Is the pull of angry ancestors stronger than the better treatment by the occupation forces?

[Furry Fella]

Related and interesting conundrum - does Windstop help reduce or expand the upland marsh?

On the expand the death and disruption favour expansion as does the desperate solutions question - both as a devil one knows and an alternative to death for the selfish etc. Being able to access the marsh also greatly enhances survival - wet lands are a treasure trove all year round for hunter gathers. How significantly is the marsh affected or is it "significantly isolated" from the magical climate - though that could easily go either or both ways.

On the contract the weather Will impact away into the marsh reducing its threat and greatly improving access and "safety". The wetland is as said above a treasure trove all year round for hunter gathers. The whole threat gain equation changes so dramatically - more food, more fuel,  less cold,  easier to travel / less treacherous, easier to access. The extent and intensity of the pressure goes way way up  - this has to impact on the hostile response. These sorts of things harm the target / defender at least geometrically and often exponentially due to the spread and frequency and intensity of events. Of note it will be the edges of the marsh that are most attractive as well as the most vulnerable / claimable.

Suggested conditions are highly likely to drive the denizins of the Spinosaurus Flats in to that edge of the marsh for good or ill?

[Joerg]

45 minutes ago, Furry Fella said:

Related and interesting conundrum - does Windstop help reduce or expand the upland marsh?

I don't think so. Despite being a master of undeath, Delecti relies on the fertility magic of Horalin the dryad to maintain his Blackthorn trees which mark the boundary of his realm. With Ernalda asleep, it doesn't seem like those trees would be able to grow.

[soltakss]

On 6/28/2018 at 9:12 AM, Furry Fella said:

On the contract the weather Will impact away into the marsh reducing its threat and greatly improving access and "safety". The wetland is as said above a treasure trove all year round for hunter gathers. The whole threat gain equation changes so dramatically - more food, more fuel,  less cold,  easier to travel / less treacherous, easier to access. The extent and intensity of the pressure goes way way up  - this has to impact on the hostile response. These sorts of things harm the target / defender at least geometrically and often exponentially due to the spread and frequency and intensity of events. Of note it will be the edges of the marsh that are most attractive as well as the most vulnerable / claimable.

For normal marshes, yes. However, the Upland Marsh is filled with undead, who are not affected by the cold, and ducks, who are. Neither would be particularly happy with hunter-gatherers coming in and pinching stuff. They would simply add to the ranks of undead guarding the marsh.

The Pale Daughters could probably expand the Marsh, by using their magical staves, but would they want to? Sure, they could take advantage of the problems caused by the Windstop, but they are normally opposed when expanding the marsh.

[Furry Fella]

5 hours ago, soltakss said:

For normal marshes, yes. However, the Upland Marsh is filled with undead, who are not affected by the cold, and ducks, who are. Neither would be particularly happy with hunter-gatherers coming in and pinching stuff. They would simply add to the ranks of undead guarding the marsh.

The Pale Daughters could probably expand the Marsh, by using their magical staves, but would they want to? Sure, they could take advantage of the problems caused by the Windstop, but they are normally opposed when expanding the marsh.

Not so sure of this presentation. Both the Ducks and some elves live successfully in side the marsh and have done so for centuries. Except i periods of marsh expansion the Sartar population does live quite close to the edge (just looking at the special Tales of the Reaching Moon issue on the Marsh). This increases familiarity but does mean some harvesting of the fringe is an ongoing activity.

Penetrating deep into the marsh and sparking a reaction yes. Shallow to moderate nibbling another story. Moving population into the edges f the Marsh - almost certainly going to generate a reaction. But food gathering - well quite a number of the elements of the marsh are plant or plant like so what effect does the extended magical winter have on them? There is a good special on the Marsh that covers the flora but I can't find it at present.

Many of the encounter descriptions talk about "ambush" rising from within the soup of the mire - very much harder with significant ice or even the the general solidifying of the much that hard cold brings. All the material stresses how ponderous the response of the undead is and that it is important that the targets get constricted by lack of mobility due to conditions. The extended hard winter will address a lot of that negatively for the undead.

The material to greatly increase the undead gaurdians will be being generated any way and more of it is likely if the marsh is not chanced. Delecti and servants have gathered their material from out side the marsh before and with Sartar clans weakend and the Lunars distracted and occupied? This is what I meant about the whole risk reward equation being reconfigured. Death by cold and deprivation becomes increasingly likely but death by marsh denizin remains relatively constant? Or does it?

The resources of the marsh are barely harnessed normally so there is much to gain. Fish, plants, waterfowl indeed quite a range of other mammals. Beyond the very periphery who or what hunts them? Undead don't eat. So - high possibly peak numbers, little fear of predation.

[Pentallion]

This is a huge move by the Lunars and would be planned and coordinated.  I think moonboats would be fully employed and could even see the construction of new moonboats specifically for this task.  No wind makes flying outside the glowline far less dangerous.  The cargo cap would be significantly greater than 1 ton mentioned above.  The strategic military and religious objectives would demand it.  The moonboat clan would make a fortune as well.

Foregone conclusion moonboats would be heavily tasked with  resupply duties.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Pentallion

[soltakss]

Personally, I think the Lunars would also resupply by taking food from the locals, thus increasing their starvation chance.

Why send an expensive Moonboat when you can take all the grain from a farmstead's cellar or take all their chickens?

Obviously, they wouldn't drain a single farmstead dry, but would take a lot from each farnstead.

Moonboats would be for the General's personal supply of Pelorian Brandy and other such essentials.

[Joerg]

7 hours ago, soltakss said:

Personally, I think the Lunars would also resupply by taking food from the locals, thus increasing their starvation chance.

Why send an expensive Moonboat when you can take all the grain from a farmstead's cellar or take all their chickens?

Obviously, they wouldn't drain a single farmstead dry, but would take a lot from each farnstead.

Why? Orlanthi clans have shared ownership of the harvest. Taking from any clan stead is taking from the clan as a whole. Why do the internal logistics for the people you just requisitioned from?

7 hours ago, soltakss said:

Moonboats would be for the General's personal supply of Pelorian Brandy and other such essentials.

I do wonder whether the Windstop starts a Hazia crisis. The military stockpiles will be drained by 1622, leaving the Imperial College quite dry.

[Furry Fella]

10 hours ago, Pentallion said:

This is a huge move by the Lunars and would be planned and coordinated.  I think moonboats would be fully employed and could even see the construction of new moonboats specifically for this task.  No wind makes flying outside the glowline far less dangerous.  The cargo cap would be significantly greater than 1 ton mentioned above.  The strategic military and religious objectives would demand it.  The moonboat clan would make a fortune as well.

Foregone conclusion moonboats would be heavily tasked with  resupply duties.

Yet the published sources make it quite clear that there were unintended consquences. As ca planned even putting your base of forward supply into famine is crazed - but it is clear that Windstop badly affects all of Tarsh outside the Glow Line (that's the very great bulk of Tarsh and over 300K people badly affected.

Everything we have seen makes it clear that Moon Boats are rare and costly to run - with demand dramatically outstripping actual numbers. What illustrations I've seen really don't show them as capable bulk haulage material at all.

Basically the whole bit 1621 onwards is full of Lunar snafu, fubar and especially hubris. The accounts in the new sourcebook clearly show over commitment of too few resources so almost everything gets done badly. Worth noting that there are really major core internal disruptions at the same time in the deepest Lunar heartlands