Vingkot and Yinkin

[jeffjerwin]

I wonder if Vingkot alias Winkot might be considered the human-brother of Yinkin and that some sort of 'folding-in' of an alynx cult accounts for the curious association of Orlanth and Yinkin. (I also think the same root is in Vinga, 'she-Orlanth'). In other words, the alynx god is the brother/companion of Vingkot (or his before-Time antecedent) and of his daughter or sister Vinga. Certainly Vingkot and Orlanth seem like the mortal and immortal halves of a single legend closely connected to the geography and Storm Age peoples of Dragon Pass. This explains in part why alynxes are a Heortling phenomenon rather than a northern or western Orlanthi cult.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Seems interesting, but I'm not entirely sure what made you reach this conclusion, or why it's needed at all?

The alynx thing is interesting, but could just as easily be explained by the Lightbringer missionaries not bringing with them alynxes as they converted Manirian, Ralian and Fronelan Hsunchen&others into becoming Orlanthi. There's also the point that Yinkin is associated with the physical landscape of Dragon Pass/Heortland, and so his cult importance doesn't translate that far outside the local landscape - a fate possibly also experienced by Kero Fin.

Certainly I would agree that Orlanth and Vingkot are mixed up a lot together. The phenomenon of "gradients" of the same lineage being conflated or divided seems pretty common for the God Time, what with ViSaruDaran-Turos, or Yelm-Murharzam, the various emperors/dragons of Kralorela, the stages of Malkion, the Earth Goddesses, etc.

[scott-martin]

1 hour ago, jeffjerwin said:

Vingkot and Orlanth seem like the mortal and immortal halves of a single legend

One time the lynx people (cousins of the puma people) woke up from a dream. Half of us had turned into people, half were lynxes and none of us remembered any more how to change back. I think it had something to do with the bad dogs.

[jeffjerwin]

12 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Seems interesting, but I'm not entirely sure what made you reach this conclusion, or why it's needed at all?

My home campaign is set among the Gavrenings who are a Yinkin clan. I'm trying to puzzle out their pre-Time history.

YINK-

WINK-

VING-

are pretty much all the same thing.

 

Moreover... Worcha Rage is defeated by Vingkot. Or sometimes by Orlanth. At Whitewall, five miles from the clan sacred stone. 

Though I can throw out that Orlanth as Varanorlanth also is pretty much in the same place when he catches the Devil-Fish while chasing his half-sister Velhara. Who is the mother of Gavren by Yinkin as well. Varanorlanth, wild/hunter Orlanth, is the pre-civilized Orlanth, who is not yet the consort of the Earth or king of Storm.

Worcha is I think = Wachaza, War-Ocean.

But it may also be a Waertagi dragon-ship attacking Whitewall...? It vomits out blue men, dog-heads, and others...

Edited September 24, 2018 by jeffjerwin

[g33k]

Classic "ygmv" territory.  It certainly holds up as well as other mostly-linguistic arguments I've seen embraced by the Grognardia.

Decide the truth-vs-coincidence factor as seems most-fun to you;   or ...

hint at it, let the players investigate or not, and let player action/interest determine what is "true."

😎

[jeffjerwin]

9 minutes ago, g33k said:

Classic "ygmv" territory.  It certainly holds up as well as other mostly-linguistic arguments I've seen embraced by the Grognardia.

Decide the truth-vs-coincidence factor as seems most-fun to you;   or ...

hint at it, let the players investigate or not, and let player action/interest determine what is "true."

😎

Yes, most likely. I am at play, not working, if you catch my drift. Yinkin is a cat and his descendants are more about the moment than the past anyway.

[Joerg]

While Vingkot came to place his royal stead just below Kero Fin, I don't think that he was the source of the shadow-cat peculiarity of the Heortlings.

In a way, Vingkot is like Heracles - the perfect candidate, but not beloved by the queen of gods, whose own sons receive the lesser roles. Vingkot may very well have seen a series of tests put to him by Ernalda - even big events like the Plundering of Aron or some of the non-chaos invasions mentioned in Anaxial's Roster may have been problems posed to him by the Earth, even after he succeeded in obtaining the daughters of Tada for his twin wives.

Illaro's kingship ib Tarsh with the seven-year-cycle of crisis might have been modeled after such an experience. The King had to renew his pledge to the land the hard way, or give way to a son of the land. It is slightly ironic that Hon-eel broke those cycles when she placed her son Phoronestes on that throne.

Vingkot himself has a Sairdite background through his mother's folk, the On Jorri, which gives him one foot in dog territory. He may have had to prove extra effort to his grandmother by granting his uncle special protection. It may have been a pledge he had to make for himself and his descendants in the Bad Dogs incident (which may or may not have been crafted by Ernalda).