davecake

Yes, but not likely if it is a spell known to a large tradition of sorcerers who actively cooperate. Which is almost all of them in Glorantha. But if it is an obscure spell in an unpopular area of sorcery, sure. Yes. Players redesigning spells trying to get a marginal advantage isn't going to make the much fun for literally anyone - at least encourage them to make something new and original.

I just assume that, in the last millenia or more, someone has usually already done that, probably multiple times, and the one in the rulesbook IS that improved spell. Now, if you want to make a better spell, you have to notably better than the preceding sorcerers who optimised it, and you probably aren't (especially as one of them may have been Zzabur). And if you are a more capable sorcerer, you are probably going to have to something more remarkable than just yet another redesign - discover a secret, get inspiration from a powerful magical being, do a heroquest for magical inspiration, complete major research project, and so on. Don't give your players a bonus just because they ask, make them work for it - and if they do do something that great, they can probably achieve something much more exciting than a mildly improved spell. That said, it is probably pretty easy to make a new version of a spell that suits them more, that has an advantage that they care about and a disadvantage they don't. Its seldom worth the bother if they want to use it outside a ritual context, though, given it starts at a very small skill.

My assumption is that Greg was quite clear about Spirit Block, it not only was present since the very early days of the game, and was more powerful then, but text describing it as the gift of Flesh Man to all living priests, calling it 'their vote on the spirit plane', is at least as old as Cults of Prax. So it emulates what I have always understand about the world from description. And looking at Cults of Prax - I am more convinced that the 'unable to interact' text from the spell description is intended to mean that a spirit that whose magic points fall low enough is free to go on its way, and that this is deliberately different to Spirit Screen etc. The example use of the spell on pg 17 of the Cults of Prax re-release talks about how if a spirits temporary POW falls below the POW blocked by the spell, "then the Rune Priest no longer can interact with his adversary, and the spirit can depart in peace." Sure, but I believe this to be a special case.

Whether it is true or not, that is cool enough an idea that there must be people who believe it. Or copies of Malkioneranist grimoires like The Unencumbered Lights of Reason/Demon Genealogies or Five New Ways? The Malkioneranists may have even learnt to (partially?) replicate something like the magic book that started it all, Impossible Landscapes, and provide access to places on the heroplane know to the god learners. The now-forbidden parts of the Abiding Book are more likely forbidden due to being full of all the messy pre-Godlearner Malkionism - Zzaburism, anti-Zzaburism, Hrestolism, Herotheism, Waertagi and proto-Vadeli myth, etc. I guess there is no reason why not. Though it sounds unlikely to be a major element for some. Sounds likely, yes.

Well, first off, the answer to that is kind of yes - Spirit Block has always been in the game and is considerably less powerful than it used to be. But it is also a lot more accessible with Rune points. But there is more to it than that. A spirit can generally retreat away from corporate attackers - usually entirely, right into the depths of the spirit plane. So a lot of the time, it does not allow you to defeat the spirit, only to drive it off for 15 minutes, after which it may choose to return. Look at the Visibility spell, a human has few options to attack a spirit that is Visible. So a human may be able to take on a spirit, but most are incapable of chasing it down. A really good question is does the sentence mean that the spirit combat ends with the defender victorious and the defender can Bind it or similar, or just that the attacking spirit can no longer threaten the defender, but can just leave if it wants. This makes quite a bit of difference to shamans - it becomes an emergency last resort, but one that is usually avoided, if the latter is true - and I suspect it is. And last, of course, spirits can learn magic too,, or have other powers. Spirit Block is great for warding off spirits that have no nifty powers. But spirits might be able to attack physically with a bite or a spirit weapon or a spirit dart, take on a physical form, attack using magic like a Spirit magic spell or even some Rune magic (even defend themselves with Spirit Block!), or attack indirectly using its powerful (such as commanding incomplete creatures to attack, or curses, etc). Never underestimate them - if you are running a shaman heavy game you will want them to often encounter powerful spirits with a range of abilities, keep them on their toes.

An interesting question is where did the Cult of Silence come from - did its mystic practices descend from something earlier? (perhaps traumatised God Learners wanting to continue mystic practices but avoid anything otherwise even vaguely reminescent of God learning?) A good question - as all human civilisation in Jrustela was wiped out, and I doubt the 'Illuminates' in Jrustela refers to the Elder races or Vadeli. So presumably they are reviving old God Learner secrets? Any contact with any underlying set of mystic lore was or deeper understanding seems absent, or at least something that happened only long after they already had established practices. I think they conceptualised it as something like a moment of unity with the mind of Malkion or something similar, and gave very little thought to any moral or deeper repercussions. Some of them must have recognised that it was something like draconic practices or Eastern enlightenment, but recognition of this, and certainly acceptance that it was the same, travelled back only slowly to the centre of Empire, and was little accepted.

For sorcery, no. Creating new spells is possible. And master sorcerers may create new spells quite often. But it might be very hard to track it down, and a spell that is obviously better without an obvious drawback probably isn't possible. For other types of magic - well, you can heroquest to create something new, but it's difficult and unreliable.

Are you sure? According to the fandom wiki, his runes are Death and Disorder. The Sourcebook mentions him as a deity of Darkness not Chaos (p. 78). I certainly have nothing against the idea, but I don't see it in the official writings. The Guide to Glorantha. Like Mallia, it may be possible to worship Ikadz in a non-Chaotic manner, but the association is certainly there No, she didn't. I just checked to be sure. I think you are thinking of Gorgorma.

Polaris. (not yet published, subject to change, treat with caution, etc) I tend to assume that lots of regimental wyters, and sub-cults and such also either have it, or something like it, or just people are often buffed by being inspired by their Loyalty passion, which isn't quite as good but reduces the huge advantage from Morale to something less extreme. Which makes Humakts ability to cast Morale still really significant - a mercenary group assembled from rag-tag warriors yesterday can fight very well together - but not overwhelming vs established units or forces fighting to defend their home etc.

Diss And Dissolv then lists a whole bunch of tactics to use against Humakti. Worth noting that many rival warrior cults are good at several of these tactics (eg Orlanth is good at missiles and mobility, Yelmalio at group action, Seven Mothers at spirit magic (everyone has befuddle)), but the Humakt cults greatest rivals, Zorak Zoran, are good at most of them. Delaying tactics and missiles by extensive use of trollkin skirmishers and slings, several good debuff spells, using rune magic including elementals to get past their parry and armour, often able to effectively use terrain against them if attacking in darkness. And in addition are nearly as good in melee, and can exploit on the Humakti weak healing by using hit and run tactics, healing themselves between encounters but using Seal Wound. There are good reasons why Humakti tend to not find Zorak Zoran too easy to beat.

Its kind of annoyingly ambiguous, but I assume that almost every Odaylan that is a professional Hunter is also a member of Foundchild if they want to be, and people don't even think of it as being a separate cult much (Foundchild is very vague on general cult organisation). Same for Yinkin. It's how I (admittedly very generously) interpret that 'can participate in the Great Hunt' wording. I also think they (as described in the Sartar Companion for HeroQuest) generally get access to spirit magic Binding Enchantment for animal spirits if they find a shaman to teach them. Odayla gets a raw deal.

GaGoG draft I have does not substantially change the spells and Runes available to Lhankor Mhy at character creation. Command, Truth, and spells from Torvalds Fragments only at character creation. Admittedly, the final version may change, but I see no reason to expect it will. Some temples might have other spells in the Library, but they don't teach them to Apprentices, so learning them happens in play. FWIW, IMG they are generally not written in the same language either, in most temples you are going to have to learn Western or Auld Wyrmish or Pelorian or something to read them.

err... quite a lot of seconds, two rounds at least. And to have six buff spells known - thats a professional sorcerer who happens to also be in Lhankor Mhy, but devotes more of their time to non-Lhankor Mhy sorcery.

I don't think that the concept of balance should be regarded as entirely irrelevant, but its certainly a much looser concept. I don't find the idea that only warrior cults (generally) have Shield, or that Shield is a really good spell, unbalancing. It means the warriors are the guys in the front line, and have an advantage in confrontations, and that is fine. I don't find the idea that Spirit Block trivialises Spirit Combat to be unbalancing - instead, it shows that the balance of world is that human worshippers can deal with spirits (at least for 15 minutes, when they really need to do something, now and then). I don't find these unbalancing the way the OP does. I don't find Sever Spirit unbalancing - Humakt should have the best Death magic, and it is sometimes super awesome, but it tends not to be unbalancing against other religions when it gives you one shot, is unreliable (and very unreliable against effective high power opponents, like all Rune Lords and Rune Priests), and many opponents will have defences. I certainly don't find the idea that, eg, river cults don't have a lot of combat magic, but are good at dealing with rivers, at all 'unbalancing'. I do find, though, that some spells have a mechanical effect of game balance that tends to go far beyond what seems right for modelling the world. So I do dislike Sword/Axe Trance as written. Humakt should be one of the most effective fighting gods (and BG too), but this spell, on its own, means they can easily totally outclass other cults that don't have it, when the balance of the world should be that they are better, but not overwhelmingly better. So that one, I rewrite to push it way down - while still being pretty awesome. I use the rewritten version, and limit it to doubling skill. So it's effectively a calm version of Berserk in game balance, which seems about right. Its still pretty good, and makes Humakt the post powerful warrior cult in hand to hand combat still (except maybe BG), but not totally dominating. Morale is so powerful I find it a big issue - but then, other cults can accomplish similar things with wyters and such, and Humakt is (in the Gods Book draft, anyway) no longer the only cult that has it. So, don't ignore game balance entirely but make it reflect what the balance of the world is supposed to be. I can understand the idea that most of the 'problem' spells the OP listed are not really a problem according to the designers, while still thinking a few spells times the spells are probably far too powerful than they were intended to be.

As for Darius contending that most Illuminates are Lunar munchkins - - of course, many inhabitants of the Empire aren't Lunar by religion, and of those that are, most aspire to Illumination but do not attain it. - the Lunars totally understand the idea of Occlusion, and take it seriously. For the majority of Lunar Illuminates, joining Lunar religions (or certain related religions, such as Yelm) and expanding magical powers is welcomed, along with the exploring the secret powers of the Red Goddess, including maybe Chaos. This may well make them munchkins by Darius' definition. It just makes them magically adept and spiritually learned by the Lunar definition. The Lunar hierarchy looks at you very funny if you start joining cults that are hostile to the Lunar way, including most Chaos cults. Of course it does happen, but for it to happen openly is generally taken as the favour of the Empire, or if not may result in a visit from the Examiners. - there are plenty of Illuminates within the Empire who became Illuminated by means other than the Sevening rituals. The Sevening rituals are Lunar only, and somewhat terrifying, with a known risk of overt insanity and mental damage (in RQ game terms, may involve Madness), albeit with some divine protection from the worst of it. There are other schools in the Empire (including the most orthodox Nysaloran schools) that take a more patient, but more self-reliant, route that may never attain Illumination, or may take many years - and are suitable for non-Lunars, such as Solar worshippers. They are also less likely to be taught the more munchkinish powers of an Illuminate immediately, and may take years of further study. Eg a new non-Lunar Nysaloran Illuminate may not have the ability to ignore cult restrictions, and may have to study further to gain it - and though no one can tell if they are Chaotic, they generally aren't a member of a Chaos cult and non-Lunar Chaos cults are secretive and mistrusted within the Empire too.

To get more precise: Makanism is mainstream God-Learnerism, and can be roughly understood as a magical Gloranthan version of modernism, yeah. Not just in magic-as-science, but in attempting (and initially succeeding, though ultimately failing) to create a singular world view that can be understood as objectively correct. Malkioneranism can be understood as post-modernism - it took Illumination, showed that there are other valid worldviews that reveal weaknesses within Makanism. It is an oposed project - and Makanism and Malkioneranism were hostile. But Illumination is much more than post-modernism. Post-modernism is a critique of modernism. Illumination reveals the flaws of the pure sorcerous worldview that is the foundation of Makanism for sure, but mysticism is also a living tradition of ancient knowledge that has its own insights and its own powers. It's intended not just to show the flaws in other systems of thought, but to show a deeper, more profound, truth. If you can't see this deeper truth, then you are just rejecting what you know (divine law, objective truth, etc) without anything to replace it with - what the Lunars call Occlusion, sometimes referred to as the Dark Side of Nysalor, or by the Arkati just Gbaji. The Eastern myths (and so Eastern orthodox mysticism) are more explicit about this, as they have a number of myths about 'Illuminated' beings falling into error and doing terrible or false things. Even the name Illumination, rather than more general mysticism, could be regarded as (at least initially) mysticism for divine followers - Nysalor was mystic teaching suddenly exploding into a theist culture, and the reaction to, and understanding of, mysticism was very much about how it changed the relationship with the gods, in cultures used to getting all their moral teachings from the gods. Pelorian Illuminates care FAR more about the ability of Illuminates to ignore the cult strictures and Spirits of Retribution than the majority of Eastern mystics do, I think. For most (mostly Eastern) orthodox mystics, why join a gods cult at all?

I disagree and I think this is objectively wrong on the God Learners. The rest of Darius' ramblings are merely the benighted confusion of the un-Illuminated, one who can see facts but lacks true understanding of mystic truth. As a non-mystic, how could he be expected to understand the difference between true Illumination and Occlusion? (😇 and how come none of these emojis have a third eye?) Thats roughly my opinion, though I'd say a sizeable minority, and exactly which ones is an interesting question. To get into more detail, dive into Middle Sea Empire, and look at the factions and movements within the God Learners. IMO the Malkioneranists absolutely were often Illuminated, and are responsible for many of the greatest excesses of the God Learners. They were still a minority movement compared to the mainstream Makanists, who I do not think were Illuminated. It's important to understand just how intellectually diverse the God Learners were, including many heresies, so most of the time any statement about 'the God Learners believed' is likely to, at best, apply only to a majority, and Illumination was pretty clearly a minority. I don't think the idea that the Malkioneranists were Illuminates/mystics is straight out stated in MSE, but I think it is heavily implied - not only did their movement originate in knowledge obtained via a First Age, Gbaji wars era, artifact (quite possibly an Arkati heroquest instruction device), but also developed many 'strange new practices' and had to adjust their doctrine somewhat. But note it's explicit that they got a lot of hostility from Makanism for all this. And note that not all of the excesses of the God Learners are the result of Malkioneranists use of Illumination and heroquesting to mess with divine cults. The Zistorites I think had very little to do with that intellectual strain of God Learning, instead they were extreme Reconstructionalists, which is a very sorcery centred movement that is wholly compatible with Makanist magical techniques (if way too radical to remain consistent with a conservative document like the Abiding Book). They were more about massive use of sorcery, enchanted devices, alchemy, ritual etc. rather than heroquesting (though I'm sure they did some of that too). The God Learners did some world breaking innovative magic that required Illumination and abuse of divine magic, for sure - but they also did some world breaking innovative magic that just took experimental sorcery techniques and the Makanist world view to an extreme (like the Zistor project). Note the Zistor project was not located in the Left Arm Islands by accident - Locsil the Clanking City was founded as a collaboration with the Ingareens of God Forgot, an ancient pure sorcery people. And then there were the Emanationalists - especially popular in Pamaltela, but some everywhere - who I also think were mostly Makanist, and mostly relied on sorcery not Illumination and misuse of divine magic, though probably did join some 'compatible' cults like Lhankor Mhy or Issaries and try to reform them from within - who would often interact with divine magic but in a more proscriptive and retributive than experimental fashion, like using sorcery to capture foreign spirits, capture other cultures magic, and so on - certainly what most would identify as God Learner excesses, but not necessarily in the experimental world breaking vein, more raw cultural imperialism that crosses the boundaries between forms of magic. I think largely Emanationalism was the God Learner movement to engage with animist powers - by crushing it, and using their spirits for their own purposes via sorcerous 'demonology', and taking all their stuff along the way. The creed of the Six Legged Empire especially, but influential elsewhere in the (huge, quite heterogenous) Empire. Umathela, especially Vralos was probably one of the places where all of these traditions came together and contended and shared knowledge (under the intellectual ambition of the Lord of the World's Knowledge) - and so predictably one of the places where the retribution against the God Learners magic was most vicious and complete. So, I don't think the God Learners were 'largely' Illuminated, or should be regarded as a mystic movement. But you absolutely can't ignore the role of mysticism/Illumination in understanding the God Learners.

The majority of mystics probably don't even see the point of munchkining it up too much. They'd just like to be left alone (including being left alone by people who hate Chaos, people who like Chaos too much, most of the other people, the gods, spirits of retribution, people who want to learn to be Illuminated in a hurry (so they can go and be munchkins), and people who are Illuminated and would like to get all munchkinish and make an Empire (large or small)). But those folks don't make for interesting history, magic, or adventures.

Predark enemies that became native sounds like the part of pre-Creation Chaos that became the world. Which is fine. I think of them as another ancient duality. Giants are the part of ancient pre-creation that mostly, eventually, became matter, dragons as the part of ancient creation that mostly, eventually, became life. But like (almost?) everyone else that wasn't around before the Green Age, I probably misunderstand terribly.

1) Gloranthan metals are not the same as terrestrial metals, as other have pointed out 2) game rules are always abstractions and oversimplifications, even in pretty simulationist games like RQ, so you can't always assume things like ENC is always directly proportional to weight (its an abstraction that combines weight and 'awkwardness'), or damage, that is stopped by APs, is a consistent and direct correlation to force. 3) even if the rules were perfect, real world materials science, design, etc is usually not as simple or linear as twice as much is always twice as good, often very far from it.

The Troll Gods book from the RQ3 Troll Good boxed set.

Argrath, being Argrath, is already a giant AND a dragon expert.

You are probably thinking of the Annilla cult writeup, though there isn't much. Of course when you take two thinks as mysterious as elder giants and dragons, what will really clear things up is the Blue Moon, right? It certainly does invite some speculation, right?

The issue with allied spirits is a real one, but I think the answer is roleplaying, rather than rules. A rune master and their allied spirits are both devoted servants of their god (allied spirits are generally initiates of the cult too), and giving POW to the allied spirit when it could be given to the god, or otherwise devoted to the gods purposes, is impious and sacrilegious unless there is a good reason, and the allied spirit will neither want it or accept it most of the time. But it might sometimes be acceptable, such as healing a spirit that has lost POW to Tapping or vampiric/Chaotic forces. And if the runemaster and their ally both are Illuminated, then all bets are off, why not make people worship your allied spirit for your magical benefit? Such cheesy tricks are par for the course for Illuminates... and Heroes.

But when you get Rune points, and don’t use them for magic that season, the god gets to use them for their own purposes. Think of it like fractional reserve banking 😄. It’s an agreement between god and man that benefits both. There are religions that have a different deal, generally in favour of the deity - Magasta, for example, who requires regular POW sacrifice of his active worshippers.