Joerg

Nice idea, although Sartar himself has been described as a Larnsti - a cultist of a very obscure mystical subcult of Orlanth present only among the Hendriki, worshiping Orlanth Larnste as the reincarnated or Changed version of the Celestial Court entity. Other than being an excellent host for the cult of the merchants, providing all that security and infrastructure, including market towns and cities, I haven't seen him use any magics that you would normally associate with Issaries. The negotiator and peace-making aspect may be the closest Sartar comes to performing an Issaries quest (and as per King of Dragon Pass, there is nothing to stop a suitably Orlanth worshiper from attempting the Issaries quest there, if at a slight penalty). I think it is perfectly possible to describe Sartar only in terms of the Orlanth cult (with its obscure niche subcults Larnste and Rex) and personal heroquesting experience. He had obviously maxed out his Change rune while being able to muster at least average Stability (Stasis) for the changes he had brought. But then, I already said that the Larnsti are a mystic brotherhood, probably plagued by their own form of Enlightenment when it comes to their use of the Mobility rune (which may also be expressed by a number of geasa) while bringing Stability. None of Sartar's heirs to the kingdom (up to 1625) have displayed any hint of personal Issaries magics. They do have a strong inheritance of building knowledge, possibly in the shape of a grimoire (but then, the Orlanth cult doesn't allow sorcery...) that is part of the wyter abilities. Saronil may have added (to) this with his apprenticehood with the mostali near Shaker's Temple (which probably translates to servants of Isidilian rather than wanderers from Greatway, with Isidilian another hero of Change to Stasis as a Quicksilver Mostali and master of transmutations). The terms "Queen and Warlord", "Queen of the Kheldon Tribe council" @Jane mentioned from Composite History of Dragon Pass both appear to be terms by which the Vendref Densesros struggles with the concept of a female ruler in the Orlanth Rex fashion that he has little experience with as his culture doesn't have this subcult, and Grazer chiefs holding all these male rulership aspects. That change actually was made before the dragonfriends came to power in Orlanthland. Hardros Hardslaughter, the hero of the Tax Slaughter of 575 who finished Arkat's Command on the Heortlings, was made a Great Living Hero rather than the high king of the Heortlings. A Great Living Hero was a mortal heroquester who received regular worship, which gave him demigod-like powers. History of the Heortling Peoples names two more Great Living Heroes in context with the Machine Wars - the (prototype Tusk Rider) Aramite Varankol the Mangler, and the Hendriki Renvald Meldekbane. Agelessness may have been a side effect of this status. Lesser capital H heroes may have cults, too (like Hofstaring), but these Great Living Heroes apparently have entire tribal confederations backing up their magic. The Ruling Council of Orlanthland may have been a lot closer to the Ernaldan/Esrolian ideal of rulership by committee than the Rex cult (outside of the Sacrificial King mode). The Rex cult may have quite a bit in common with Lokamayadon's cult of Tarumath the High Storm, the excesses of which may have been the motivation behind abandoning the position of High King of the Heortlings. There is a chance that the Adjustment Wars between the Hendriki and the Esrolians were fueled by the implications of the Rex cult. What the heck did Alakoring carry across the Rockwoods? But then, Harmast Barefoot had the Grandmothers of Nochet panicked when they recognized his at best slightly altered Berennethtelli tribal tattoo as that of Kodig, the nemesis of the reign of the Grandmothers until his heir Rastagar was foully betrayed. That's the point where people start to introduce weird fantasy terms or loans from completely unrelated cultures and provide a translation in brackets. Greg did this a lot, e.g. his Dara Happan definition of Justice in GRoY: "Denseb, meaning Measured Command from Above", but @Jeff appears to prefer terms from modern English over archaic or loaned names. With Kallyr, Leika and Londra of Londros we have three powerful female rune levels or heroes of Orlanth, with Ivartha the Skinner of the Cinsina providing another Orlanth Rex queen. RQG's iconic sample character Vasana continues this trend as a role model for players of RQG, with her half-sister Yanioth continuing the role model of the Ernaldan character with agency and motivator of the party. Samastina's party had two Ernaldan priestesses - Samastina herself, and her visionary snake priestess Keva. (See Prince of Sartar comic chapter 4, and the examples in HQG). The Feathered Horse Queen as avatar of Kero Fin and the Earth Queen is another strong Ernaldan player, as is Ernalsulva of Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes. They were cousins, few generations apart. Only one father of a Feathered Horse Queen has been named: Sartar, father of Yoristina, the second FHQ and ancestress of all her successors. There is a chance that Saraskos had a full sister, too... But then, that close family relationship wouldn't have stopped the royal house of Sartar, which appears to have a habit of re-marrying the lost branches of the family (Kostajor's kids - possibly including Salinarg's wife, or Saraskos whose paternal great-grandfather Sartar also is his maternal great-grandfather. But yes, the House of Sartar, or at least the succession of Saronil, was a bit misogynystic with the way Onelisin had been omitted from the succession, but then she presumably had left the royal palace soon after her initiation, and children of the House of Sartar initiate early as a rule. She is the only child of Saronil who didn't get a royal fortress/broch named after her. On the other hand, Saronil sacrificed his life for his granddaughter by her, so not all bridges had been broken between father and daughter. Jarosar was Onelisin's younger brother, and while he proved to be a fine Orlanthi and decent king, he was the first rather non-descript Prince of Sartar. His (in the end futile) intervention on behalf of his father's childhood friend Palashee brought the Kingdom of Sartar onto the radar of the Provincial Government, and brought on the personal vendetta of Phargentes and his successors with the House of Sartar. But then, would a cat-witch have been a responsible ruler for the Kingdom?

No reason not to have this as a heroquest reward. We have a number of Hedkoranth myths that you could put together to mirror the secret that only a devotee (i.e. rune level) of Hedkoranth could access. The reusable (and returning) Thunderstone probably is an allied spirit rather than just an enchanted item in RQG terms, and might be good only for a low damage without that special rite to enchant it, with the option to activate it once for the big damage. There might be more quests to increase the power of the allied Thunderstone, while at the same time earning reputation, passions, and hatred by associates of the foes of Hedkoranth.

I think this is the easier route. This logic might affect Mend Flesh as well, but not Heal Wound. Not quite. A 2-point crystal allows a 6 point spirit spell healing with a Heal 4, and a 1-point crystal with a Heal 5. Just because the doubling is limited doesn't mean that you cannot cast a stronger spell than twice the POW of the crystal. I tend to subscribe to the logic of the first version.

With the cultural cost for "Regrow Limb" having gone down so significantly as you no longer need to bother a priest with this request for a reusable spell or having to pay eight times your ransom for a non-reusable spell, you may have a point there. It takes a "Seal Wound" (and a lack of willingness to undergo an even more extreme amputation) to create a candidate for a partnership in Gimpy's (and with the population density of ZZ cultists in the Rubble, something like that may very well be the cause of that partnership). Subjecting a player character to a temporary disability taking that character mostly out of the game may create some memorable gaming. Retiring a character whose character concept has been broken by that result may be memorable, too. Being saddled with a character like Urrgh the Ugly (INT and CHA 3 - created with RQ2 rules) may be seen as a roleplaying challenge or a welcome joint of silliness for some players, but doesn't mean that every player enjoys this. The "Heal 6" requirement is only needed when the party has spent their last rune point, as a Heal Wound boosted with 6 MP or the same Heal Wound boosted with 3 MP and the same Healing Crystal do the job just fine (RQG p.149). The sorcerous Mend Flesh can do the job when the spell fully heals the damaged location (RQG p.396) - that means, even when some other healing has been done before to stop the bleeding, the full points of the location must be healed with a single casting of Mend Flesh. Again, there is no indication that the powered crystal cannot be used with Mend Flesh to provide additional intensity. The extraordinary importance of Heal 6 is mostly a thing of the past unless you play RQ2 or RQ3 or a homebrew where initiates don't get reusable rune points. Of the cults published in the RQG rules, only Eurmal (and the spirit cults Black Fang and Oakfed) lacks access to Heal Wound, and in the basic rules only Chalana Arroy (Warding), Yinkin and the spirit cults Black Fang and Oakfed are limited in their range of Common Divine Magic. The Bestiary adds High King Elf, Shamans of Aldrya, The Cult of the Bloody Tusk, Telmor, Mal(l)ia and Thed to the cults with incomplete access to Common Divine Magic, and to Heal Wound (except the Bloody Tusk, which has it), so Heal 6 may be important if you are playing a Hsunchen game without Daka Fal ancestor worship.

Another thread-jacking alert... Misogyny or absence thereof in Sun Domer society is mildly on topic, de-frosting Ivarne is already off-topic. But yes, I come from a country where neither gender studies nor creationism are serious candidates for anything below master studies on the phenomena. But then neither do we learn all the medical terms for the bones in a human body, or the exact number thereof. Instead, there is the question whether the public schools should have ethics as an alternative or addition to religion and philosophy in the schools. More on this in Alastor's Tavern, or a thread combining modern cultural developments with Gloranthan ones, please.

Does that mean that Kangharl had no Orlanth Rex magics like Command Priests or Command Worshipers? Or is Orlanth Rex cult initiation independent from mastery over the tribal wyter? Not that Kangharl lacked a power basis when he could ask the occupying Lunar "friends" nicely to pour atrocities or at least an increased tax burden on his foes. Speaking of mastery over the tribal wyter, neither Temertain nor Kallyr managed to get more than a flicker out of the Flame of Sartar. Still, the fact that there was a flicker means that the national wyter was suppressed, not departed. Sorry about the thread-jacking. Time to start another thread, probably better in the RQ forum.

I have tried to address that in my Dueling Magic(ian)s thread. Comments, disagreements and suggestions for modification of that text or links to related threads (like this one) are welcome. The problem is that such well-defined terms quickly become jargon, a specialized language that has well-defined meanings, and might have to be marked up in different font color or emphasis to make clear that a well-defined term rather than the everyday language term is meant. And then the poor reader trying to parse that text will be forced to look up each and every definition... even if it comes as floating text in an electronic document (similar to the links in Wikipedia), this gets exhausting really fast. There is also the issue of unbreakable spells. The spirit spell Dispel Magic has a theoretical upper limit of the INT of the caster minus one if said caster is (or has) a shaman who can find any spirit he wants. Unless you are able to find and bind a spirit that knows an even more powerful version of that spell, and that can be commanded to cast it on behalf of its binder. The amount of Dismiss Magic that can be put into a single casting depends on the number of rune points the caster can pour into that, or alternatively in the number of rune points put into that Dismiss Magic enchantment item. Sorcerers can only "dispel" active spirit magic with "Neutralize Spirit Magic", but they can also use Neutralize Magic to disable a rune spell or sorcery spell termporarily. With the ability to Inscribe spells with a number of free points of Intensity, Duration and/or Range (for one POW per such point, resulting in the equivalent of magic points cast for free whenever they cast those spells), sorcerers have no theoretical upper limit for their Neutralize Magic spells. But then, a Neutralize Magic spell can be Neutralized by another Neutralize Magic spell. A sorcerer might produce a blinking light effect by Neutralizing Neutralize Magic spells with different durations....

Haven't watched one of those in almost four years. Barbarian Adventures (and subsequent publications based on that) name her the Queen of the Kheldon in Exile. (That means, unlike Leika who lost her title as Queen of the Colymar when she was sent to Exile (by whom, btw?), the Kheldon have not replaced her or her claim to the office as chief priest of the Kheldon tribal temple and wyter. Interesting aside: Did Leika yield her office as priest of the Black Spear to Blackmor? Was Blackmor able to attain that priesthood, or did Leika carry the Black Spear with her into exile? Does an Orlanth Rex cultist have to be (in control of) the Chief Priest of the tribal wyter? Are there other conditions for becoming able to cast Command Priests or Command Worshipers? Other than "King of Camelot", I suppose, if you go for a Malory interpretation of the myth rather than for anything approaching a hypothetical historical Art(ori)us. But then, the (or at least a) historical version of "Siegfried of Xanten" (and derived from that, the Sigurd of the Icelandic saga rewrite of that Nibelungenlied myth) might have been Arminius for slaying the "dragon" made up of three Roman legions.

Any spell can be boosted in its penetration. The Demoralize with four extra MP has the six points of penetration against whatever Countermagic effect the target may have. There is one other case of boosting: setting the strength of certain divine spells like Heal Wound or <Weapon> Trance. It takes these rune spells to make the additional magic points do anything. This is where we part ways. For how long? Boosting a spell adds to the penetration vs. Countermagic, Absorption, and Reflection/Castback, but that's as far as it goes. For penetration purposes. The example that you quote is not rules-lawyer-proof in its phrasing. Neither is the interaction of Shield with a pre-existing Spirit Magic Countermagic. Or stacking of rune spells. Imagine a one-on-one duel is to be fought by your champion, and the rest of the group pools a number of spells to buff their champion before he enters the duel. Three of the other party members know Shield, and might be able to offer 2 rune points each. Does this add up to six points of shield for the champion? And the second supporter who adds Shield has to boost with 1 magic point to add to the Shield, and the third supporter has to boost with 5 magic points. (And, accepting your reasoning, does this mean that in order to Dismiss this shield I need 6 + 6/2 = 9 rune points of Dismiss, or a highly improbable 18 points of Dispel Magic?) Two melee rounds into the duel, the opponent of the champion attempted to cast a Thunderbolt that was stopped by the Shield. Our champion decides to spend two of his remaining rune points to cast two more points of Shield. Does his Shield now go up to 8? Will 2 points remain for (at least) two melee rounds longer? When dispelling, the entire Shield stack is affected. What if the champion has put a Protection on top of that? Do these points add to the strength of the Shield when dispelling it (and end up being dispelled along with the Shield)? For penetration purposes, only. Apparently being a lawyer doesn't prepare you to compete with a whole horde of rules lawyers... But then, the aesthetics of a lawyer-proof phrasing are not on par with the aesthetics of the presentation of the game.

Yes. There may be an Ernaldan culture, without Orlanth, somewhere (e.g. in Caladraland?). One celebrating the concubine of the Emperor prior to her abduction by that Storm barbarian, or one celebrating the ruling Earth Queen before Sky usurped rulership. I often use "Theyalan culture" instead. (While named after the goddess of Dawn, this doesn't mean that the culture worshiped that goddess in any prominent role.) That term includes outliers like the Pelaskites of the Rightarm Isles and other Choralinthor Bay shores and the Ingareens and Esvulari of God Forgot and southern Heortland, the Aramites (even though they aren't human any more), the Kitori (whatever species you may assign them), and in a somewhat laxer interpretation even the Elder Races of Kerofinela and Kethaela (aldryami, mostali, trolls, dragonewts, wind children, newtlings, ducks, beastmen, though not the local Ludoch). The Praxian Beast Riders are not a Theyalan culture. The Zola Fel riverfolk are converts, much like the Pelaskites, Esvulari and to some extent even the God Forgotten Ingareens. There are groups counted among the Orlanthi who are actively hostile to at least some aspects of the Heortlings, like e.g. the Jajalarings of Saird who are foes of Yinkin and his kin (which includes human and Storm Tribe adoptees). The naming cultural god. In reality it is the culture shaped by Ernalda, by manipulating her husband, allowing for some of his passions. Much of the culture was defined in the Silver Age by the husband-and-wife team Heort and Ivarne, who re-defined pre-Greater Darkness behavior for the world salvaged by the Ritual of the Net and the I Fought We Won battle. And the core magical practice of the culture, involving sacrifice and widespread initiation, was spearheaded by Heort's (divine?) god-talker Hantrafal. Which is how Thunder Rebels arrives at the formula "Heort, Hant and Hara" used in blessings (with "Hara" meaning beloved, and usually implying an avatar of Ernalda). Yes. The (undoubtedly Ernaldan) Esrolian culture has no such concept as a single ruler over various kings and queens. Esrolia has a council of Grandmothers of the Enfranchised Houses who are absolute rulers over their houses but form an egalitarian council that needs to decide unanimously. While there is an occasional Reverend Grandmother who is allowed to make decisions for an assume consensus, this assumed consensus can be questioned by any other Grandmother of an Enfranchised House (at the price of attracting the ire of the incumbent Reverend Grandmother). The Prince of a confederation or (Orlanthi) Kingdom on the other hand is defined by Orlanth Rex magics or even more ancient (and patriarchalic) Vingkotling magics, including the magic to Command Priests (neutralizing the magic of priests targeted for a day). The job of "King of Dragon Pass" was actually open for gender at the time of the conquest between Sartar and the first Feathered Horse Queen. Really. "Prince" here is a shorthand for "Orlanthi king (or queen) ruling a tribal confederation", and Queen Kallyr describes the queen of the Kheldon tribe, whereas Prince Kallyr describes Kallyr as Ruling Queen of Sartar (as in Orlanth Rex ruling, rather than "married to the ruling king"). Consider the alternative "Princess Kallyr". Would you associate this with a ruler and military leader? Let's hope it didn't hurt the tiny Barbarian brain... No quibbles with the result of that process, though.

I have been unaware of any fictional (or documentary) work of that title until now. King Heort's wife Ivarne is the Frozen Woman which he finds somewhere and rescues, then marries.

Dueling Magics Magic is a match winner in many a RuneQuest conflict, and for this reason there are a couple of magics to avert this. It is necessary to define a few terms here. Penetration strength of a spell: This is relevant for magical barriers like the Countermagic effect, Neutralizing effects, or Reflection/Castback. The penetration strength is the sum of all magic points put into the intensity of the spell plus all boosting magic points and twice the sum of the rune points put into the spell effect (not area or duration). Sorcerous spells cast with the help of an inscribed spell also add all points of POW in the inscription put into the intensity of the spell (though not points of POW for duration or range). Spell intensity or spell strength is the number of points for the spell effect, and is the value that is relevant for attempts to dispel or neutralize the spell. As usual, one rune point counts for two magic points. In the case of rune spells which require a boost with magic points to have an effect, there are two measures: the bonus of the spell is dependent on the boosted magic points, which are instantly used up to create that bonus for the duration of the spell (if applicable, Heal Wound for example has an instant effect). For dispelling, only the number of rune points need to be removed. One such magic is a magical barrier, also often referred to the Countermagic effect, which comes in a variety of flavors. This basically prevents all spells below the threshold set by the Countermagic effect spell to affect their target. The caster of the incoming spell has the possibility to boost the spell with additional Magic Points during the casting, adding to the penetration of the incoming spell (only). The effect is named after the spirit spell Countermagic, a variable spell (i.e. limited by the number of points the caster has learned. Within its duration (2 minutes unless extended by a shaman or stacked with the Extension rune spell), it will absolutely block/dissipate any incoming magic 2 points less than its strength, and persist. If the incoming magic is within one point of the Countermagic strength, both the incoming magic and the Countermagic will disspipate. Spells stronger than the Countermagic will simply disspiate the Countermagic spell and take effect. There are rune spells which impart a Countermagic effect as part of their effect, most notably Shield. Unlike the Spirit spell, this Countermagic effect will dissipate any spell with a penetration strength up to the value of the Countermagic effect and remain in effect until the end of the duration or until dispelled. The tricky part is that the Countermagic spirit spell will stack its effects with these rune magic Countermagic effects. However, due to the ephemeral nature of the spirit spell, the rune magic effects need to be in place before the spirit spell can be placed on top of that effect. The other way around, the rune magic would either be blocked by and/or dissipate the Countermagic spirit spell. (This is somewhat clumsily worded in the description of the Shield spell, and not at all in the other instances of the Countermagic effect for rune spells). Another tricky topic is the interaction of the Countermagic effect with detection spells, area-affecting spells and targeting spells. More about this below. A similar effect with an added bonus is the Absorption rune spell which converts incoming spells of any type onto the target of this spell (needn‘t be the caster) into magic points for the caster of the spell as long as the penetration strength of the spell doesn‘t surpass the Absorption effect. Special cases like interaction with detection spells or area-effect spells like warding are discussed below. There are sorcery spell which provide their target with a similar barrier against specific incoming spells: Neutralize <Rune> and Neutralize Spirit Magic. In typical sorcery manner, the barrier is fuzzy and requires that the penetration strength of the incoming spell overcomes the intensity of the barrier spell. The Neutralize Spirit Magic spell first needs to dissipate all existing temporal spirit spells affecting the target by overcoming the sum of their spell strength and will then remain in effect for its duration, but will dissipate when it fails a resistance roll (if the incoming spirit spell takes effect), the Neutralize <Rune> spells will stay in effect for its duration regardless whether incoming spells penetrate it. It isn’t clear whether a Neutralize <Rune> spell will protect from a sorcerous spell using that rune. (And if so, whether the substitution for the Magic rune in undefined spells by the specified rune makes a spell susceptible to Neutralize <Rune>.) The interaction of Neutralize Spirit Magic with the Countermagic spirit spell is slightly complicated. Obviously, to take effect, it has to overcome the stacked Countermagic effect on the target with its penetration strength, which is the sum of its intensity (whether from manipulation or inscribed POW) and any magic points piled on top to boost it. The instant this has happened, Countermagic the spirit spell dissipates, and hence doesn‘t count to the sum of the points of temporal spirit magic in effect, as far as I interprete the rules. Not quite a barrier, but still interacting with the penetration strength of the incoming spell is the reflection effect of the rune spell Reflection and the sorcery spell Castback. Again obviously it has to have penetrated the stacked Countermagic effect already for this spell to come into action. Another such magic is dispelling magic that already has taken effect. The spells applicable here are the Spirit spell Dispel Magic, the common Rune Spell Dismiss Magic and the sorcerous Neutralize Spirit Magic (as the instant effect of this spell). Dispel and Dismiss have to be equal to or stronger than the points of the targeted spell. Boosts like Extension, points put into Duration or Range, or magic points that had been added to penetrate a Countermagic-like barrier don‘t count here. Sorcery matches the intensity of the Neutralize Spirit Magic spell (not the magic points put into Range or Duration, or as boost to penetrate a barrier) with the sum of all spirit spells currently affecting the target. (Not including any instant spirit spells that happen to strike the target simultaneously to this spell – since sorcery is slower than spirit magic, I would rule that instant spells take effect before this sorcery spell takes effect. Once this spell has taken effect, the barrier effect of it discussed above comes into play.) Both these spells can be cast on a Protective Circle to give them area-effect, taking care of the range condition. This is also the only way to cast Neutralize Spirit Magic on a target without affecting existing spirit magic (like that extended Bladesharp 3 that you might want to keep on your blade). A third variant temporarily suspends a temporal spell that is already in effect. This is (currently) limited to the sorcery spell Neutralize Magic. If the Neutralize Magic spell has an intensity of at least half the intensity of the spell already in effect, the intensity of the spell is matched against the intensity of the Neutralize Magic spell. The caster needs to be able to perceive the targeted spell (i.e. the target of the spell) in order to neutralize it. There are a number of debatable points here. Does the Neutralize Magic target a single spell, or does it target a stacked spell effect (say Shield plus Protection) if the caster cannot specify whether the magical protection is from spirit magic or rune magic? Finally there are special or additional such effects, like Reflection/Castback which return a spell whose caster didn‘t manage to win a POW vs. POW contest against the spell‘s target on the caster. And in this case, it is open to debate whether any magic points used for boosting the spell say past a Countermagic effect or the Absorption effect still are in effect when the spell is reflected. Probably yes, if you look at the description of the Absorption spell. The interaction between detection spells and the Countermagic effect and the Countermagic spirit spell fragility was discussed in this thread: https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/8238-countermagic-complications/ I seem to recall a ruling that a Detect Magic (or Enemies) spell would not dissipate any Countermagic spells it encounters even if its boosted strength would allow it to. I am not sure whether the Countermagic effect shields additional magic or the quality of “Enemy” from being detected. A nifty tool a bit outside of these considerations is the sorcery spell Attract Magic which redirects any ranged spell within its range of effect to the designated redirection target if applicable. Applicable means: the caster must be able to see (or otherwise target) the redirection target. The redirection target must be susceptible to the spell. Mind-affecting spells cannot be redirected to objects, but can be redirected to people, beasts, monster (e.g. undead, automata, or spirits with Visibility on), or illusions thereof (that cover the sensory range of the caster used for targeting – usually sight, Sould Sight, or darksense, possibly earthsense). Spells causing physical damage cannot be redirected to a spirit with Visibility on, but can be cast on an optical or Darksense illusion or phantom (or hallucination, if the caster is affected by one, although in this case only the person who cast the Hallucination or anyone in mental connection with the hallucinating caster would be able to target the redirection target). A standard held high with a bound spirit inside or a beast (e.g. a bird) perching on it may act as such a redirection target, and only affects those who have line of sight towards this redirection target. Shielding their vision against this redirection target will allow casters to affect their intended target with ranged magic. (Note that a Lightwall or a Darkwall can render this distraction ineffective to casters using sight for targeting, and Lightwall possibly affecting Darksense, too. Not Soul Sight, though…) Selectively targeting active spells with dispelling (or neutralizing) spells Unless you know exactly what spells have been cast on a target, you have to guess at the spell or its function, and at its intensity. Let’s take an Arkati (Humakti and/or Zorak Zorani) as your opponent whose sword has that magic “glow” signalling that there is a magic spell active on it. Unless you use Soul Sight or Pierce Veil, you have no information about how strong the spell is, or whether there are several spells active on the blade. Let’s assume a worst case here. The blade could carry Bladesharp, Truesword, Blessing of Kargan Tor, Seal Wound, Pain Tooth, Protection or Countermagic, Shield, Absorption, Neutralize Armor, Ward Against Weapons and Castback (applicable if the blade has a bound spirit), Preserve Item, Protective Circle (with any number of Neutralize Rune and Neutralize Spirit Magic spells on it), and because nasty opponents did strike this worthy with de-buffing magic, a number of Neutralize Magic spells negating several castings of Dullblade, Dampen Damage and possibly even Glue (to the sheath it was in). The dispelling target declaration might simply be “the (or a) spell on that blade, in which case a random spell from the list of the protective spells above is chosen (Protection, Shield, Absorption, Castback, Ward Against Weapons, Protective Circle and its companions). (With the usual checks for whether the incoming dispelling spell overcomes a Countermagic and/or Absorption effect, and whether it overcomes the magic points of the bound spirit in order to avoid triggering the Castback, if within range of the Castback resistance ability.) “The (a) spell on that blade that is not a protective spell.” I don’t think I’d allow an exclusion clause in the targeting. That leaves a positive but not concrete pronouncement like “The (a) spell that enhances that blade.” Getting into tricky territory. Preserve Item qualifies, so does every Neutralize Magic with the spell it blocked still in duration. An obvious effect like Fireblade is easy to target, of course. (A Fireblade combined with a medium strength Absorption might become a veritable MP generator…) But I don’t think that Boon of Kargan Tor is really discernible from Truesword, Seal Wound or Bladesharp. Detect Magic will lighten up all potential targets within range. More reliable than just looking out for that magical glow or increased definition that accompanies active magic. Soul Sight or Pierce Veil will not be blocked by the Countermagic effect, and may tell how strong the magic on that sword is. The question here is whether the spells can discern between spells, whether they have enough resolution to determine single spells, and whether stacked spell effects (like Shield with Protection or Countermagic, or Protective Circle with various Neutralize spells) are perceived as a single amount of magic. The sorcerous Identify Spell spell can identify a single spell, either targeting an obvious spell effect, or targeting the target of a spell. The spell description gives no advice how to deal with an object that is the target of multiple spells, or how this spell deals with stacked effects like Countermagic or Protection, and neither does it tell us whether Countermagic or Absorption prevents such an identification. The sorcerous Reveal Rune spell gives a good guess at what rune spells the character may possibly have cast himself, although associate magic or Spell Trading might obscure that. Spells cast by supporters require a runic analysis of said supporters... Area effect magic and dispelling and Countermagic effects This is where things get tricky. Does the Countermagic effect on individual targets stack with the Countermagic effect of area effect magic? What happens if you are inside the effect of a Create Neutral Ground or Great Market and cast offensive magic? Does a sufficiently high Countermagic effect or Neutralize Harmony Rune spell protect you from the Disruption penalty for taking offensive action inside the area? How high a Countermagic effect is required? 1 point per Disruption, or 2 points per point of Warding? What about Create Market (a 3-point spell, although some of those points may explain the 8-week special duration)? What is the effect of several Protective Circles with the same Neutralize spells on them overlapping? Does only the strongest Neutralize effect interact with the incoming spell, or does the incoming spell ‘s penetration strength have to bypass each and every Neutralize spell it crosses or enters? Absorption and the Disrupt effects of Create Market or Warding: Does Absorption 2 prevent a 3 point Warding’s Disrupt effect to hit the target of the Absorption when triggering the Disrupt? Does the caster receive 3 magic points every time the Absorption target inside a 3 priests’ worth Great Market fires their bow, or crosses a hostile Warding border? That’s it for now. This post might be edited when I conceive or receive additions or necessary alterations to this version.

Point 3 needs to visit the Dispel Magic rules, which you have avoided in your argumentation so far. The points of the spell. Your ruling is that the boost adds to the points of the spell because of that unfortunate wording in the example. My ruling is that a Protection 4 that is boosted by any amount of magic points (to get past that Shield spell already in place) still is the four point spell. There are other spells which play into this problem - I think I'll start a new thread on this.

What rules text do you base this on? You don't dispel enemy magic the moment it is cast - the spell must be in effect to be canceled. That other thing is awesome SFX in sorcerers' duels, but we don't have rules for that (other than a quick Disrupt to break concentration). Once the spell is in effect, all the extra boosting MP are gone for good. They don't linger. (If they would linger, then for how long? A spirit spell lasts 2 minutes, a sorcery spell 5, a rune spell 15.) A 21 point shield practically cannot be taken off with Spirit Magic Dispel as there is nobody with INT 43 or higher who has just that one spirit magic spell. A 21 point Dismiss Magic with one extra magic point to undo the Countermagic effect of the Shield can take that spell away. A sorcerous 42 point Neutralize Magic (with about 22 points of inscription, possible for humans only if you can layer on inscriptions successively) would have a 50% chance to cancel the Shield for its duration. (Extra duration would have to be inscribed, too.)

There is a counter-argument that is spelled E U R M A L...

Shot down by Lukarius I accept as passive. But her impregnation by Umath was hardly passive - Umath was in tatters at the time - and neither will be any other impregnations out of consensus. Rufelza's concourse with the Devil (named Blaskarth in the HQ1 era) is not that passive, either, although not as active as Arachne Solara's union with Kajabor. That's still a work in progress. It was the Blue Moon goddess who fell to earth, among other reasons because of Lukarius. Shooting the bow may or may not have been involved. But then the bow of Lukarius is a female mystery in itself, stringed with the umbilical that connected him to his mother. Enabling the arrow with the umbilical link to the son, who may have been little else but a puppet in this. (Although Herustana is a supporter of Sedenya - e.g. taking in Gerra from the drowned tower - and not an advertised earlier form of the turning goddess. A surrogate mother of the moon, anyway.) I haven't written anything on female initiation, but I guess I really ought to finish the English language version of my funerary pilgrimage scenario, the first half of which was published in the German HeroQuest scenario collection (as one of two Gloranthan scenarios, with strong editorial input and finishing touch by Robin Mitra). It is designed for an all-female cast of characters from various tribes, with husbands or sons or brothers as possible sidekicks for use in action scenes.

Conducting a sacrifice before a major undertaking is common in theist culture. The person officiating it will often be a chief, war-leader, or other person of authority, without any higher cult rank. If the sacrifices are to a cult that this person doesn't belong to, the person will appoint a stand-in (like Temertain did for the Storm Bull rites of Boldhome in 1614). Temertain might be a good example here. As Prince of Sartar, his role is to officiate or oversee plenty a sacrifice. As an initiated of Lhankor Mhy and Orlanth Rex, there are a number of sacrifices which he can officiate or delegate, and there are others which he only can delegate. Also: "usually ignores" doesn't mean "always ignores". Contact a deity or similar entity with sufficient sacrifice and pomp, and it may grant magic or blessings. The God Learners even proved that such an entity may be created out of whole cloth (but then, the reign of Avanadpur served as a mythical precedent). IMO there is a meta-rule that in order to conduct the worship, the officiating person needs to have developed the spiritual organ that connects them with the deity on the Other Side to transmit the energies of the sacrifice (which is the experience which warrants the POW gain roll in RQ). Theyalan theism has a huge proportion of DIY approach, whereas Pelorian theism has the overseer and the sacrificer in two different roles.

Not quite the fair comparison - Sheng was a mere millennium separated from the Jenarong dynasty. Genghis may not even have had Scythians in his ancesty or cultural ancestry, and he came more than two millennia after the two millennia of Scythian culture had petered out. The agricultural method of horse riding and roaming the steppes on wagons was transmitted to unrelated populations just like cattle herding and plowing had been transmitted. As did the Char-un before him. Establishing his nomads on the land suitable for them and re-purposing the previous population elsewhere or simply performing a vermicide was not all he did, or otherwise there was a bunch of grey eminences working alongside Sheng that instituted a very efficient bureaucracy administrating both the eastern and the western walkers under his rule. Sheng did bring in half-people bureaucrats from Kralorela, trained in organizing half-people tribute for his nomads. Sheng's grab for Vormain shows that his thirst for domination extended even across the Kahar Sea. There is no way he could have even begun to hope to turn Vormain into horse pasture. Ruling over these half-people and their cities obviously had value. Yes, open grasslands are his goal, and he agrees with the aldryami that the irrigation dry farming in Peloria is a crime against the land. Sheng and the aldryami don't agree on the replacement biome, but they will have the opportunity to fight that out in the Hero Wars. Jenarong was a second generation horse warlord who discovered the Ten Tests for himself. Bisoshan was a second generation Carmanian conqueror who did so, too. It takes a while for newcomers to grasp the importance these tests have for keeping the population docile. Sheng's lackeys among the Dara Happans on Horse saw this differently, as does the nobility of Velthil. They weren't given enough time to establish Sheng or a minion of his as emperor, and Takenegi and/or Magnificus would have actively prevented any such move. They probably did, and we just didn't learn about that. Some triumphs over near-catastrophes remain unpublicized to avoid imitators. Half the Dara Happan nobility is willing to adopt horse warlords as their overlords and to get back at the lackeys of Glamour who deprived them of their rightful places closer to the top.

The Lunar occupation e.g. of the Aranwyth did not affect millions (Sartar had a population of maybe 200,000 prior to the conquest), but then neither did Sheng's agricultural "reform" affect millions. Wet farmers had to fear for the dryer fields where they grew the seedlings for their rice paddies, but a muddy field not covered by water still doesn't make useful horse pasture. A field cultivated for wheat or barley on the other hand is a horse pasture waiting to happen. Yes, Sheng's policy is a "Lebensraum" policy - the old "farmers vs. ranchers" trope on the genocided lands of the highly efficient grounds that were used for bison harvesting by the native people, originally supporting a population about as large as that of modern day central USA (with the exception of a few big cities). Yes, the established population is in the way for Sheng's minions. And no, the Lunar conquest of Sartar did not bring a migration of Lunar immigrants of comparable size, although the Maboder tribe was kept annihilated after the Telmori revenge, and plenty a clan lost their prime farmland to Lunar plantations and faced starvation as their herds were culled by heavy taxation, too. The equivalent of what caused the Frisian uprising against the ox-hide tax described by Tacitus is what happened in Sartar all over the place. The Lunars usurped all the lesser trade concessions the house of Sartar had given to the tribes while demanding the same amount of tax (that used to be forwarded to the princes from that income), nominally keeping the tax burden constant while cutting off the main source of the income that had gone into those taxes. They interfered with the tribal pastoralism - in case of the Aranwyth, destroying the main source of wealth, with the same effec that Pol Pot's forcible introduction of agrarian socialism brought. Argrath lost his family and his family home and family wealth for no reason at all. That was murder, and we don't know whether there was rape, too. And Argrath will hardly be the only survivor of such atrocities, and those survivors who were led off into slavery (like the tens of thousands of Sartarite slaves who fought alongside Beat-Pot in the Orayan rebellion) were subject to sexual exploitation without having a say in that, too. Sheng's policy of taking the land away was enacted a lot faster than that of e.g. the Lunars in the Grantlands as Sheng brought his replacement population already with him. There is no difference from hunting the bison to extinction or from taking the most fertile lands away from aboriginal hunting and gathering, other than this time it was sedentary farmers who were forced to pack up. But then the Cherokee displacement was just that, too, with similar results. This kind of "Lebensraum" conquest always is a cruel genocide, with haphazard murder and rape in its wake. The displaced population is deprived of its humanity, whether as slaves or hunted for sport or trophies. (Like e.g. the skulls "collected" for phrenological studies by imperialist researchers to find scientific proof for the inherent superiority of the settlers that stole the land and starved the natives into extinction.) The Lunar policy was genocide by slavery, bureaucracy and incremental dispossession. Creating local uprisings as the excuse to enslave thousands, like the Firebull incident. The only trouble was that these rebels were even harder to handle than Pelorian Monster Man uprisings. The disbanding of the Dundealos and bringing in core clans of the Enstalos with some Dundealos clans allowed to continue in subservient roles is a case of displacement from the land. The Seven Brothers clan of the Colymar looks like another such destructive intrusion, in collusion with Blackmor. (Did the second o in Blackmoor become a victim of political correctness?) Sheng's minions regarded the entire non-riding population of the Dara Happan bowl as communal slaves, and treated them that way. Non-compliance was rebellion, punishable by death. This included sexual acts. The natives just didn't realize that they had been enslaved - a bureaucratic failure. But then, a failure of the occupation forces in Sartar, too. And your source is the uninformed lowest tier victim, unaware of what her people had done to call in Sheng's rage. Which was probably some accomplicehood in destroying treks of Pentan settlers crossing the Oslir where the Riverfolk had supported such crossings earlier. Sheng's forces and their families had suffered huge losses to the "heroic river pirates operating out of Alkoth" (think of everything that you might associate with pirates, and with Alkothi, and combine that) that Greya was oblivious to, and which she would have condoned whole-heartedly if she had learned about it. After all, to her those riders had no humanity to speak of. It is no different from Russian and Polish retaliations in East Prussia in WW2. Of course the survivors of these crossings were traumatized, and paid back the favor to those who had aided and abetted those atrocities. They were hardly different from young Argrath when he went on his rampage against the Lunars who had brutally tortured and murdered his family. In the Seleric wars the humans on either side rarely fought what they regarded as humans.

25 years ago, we (especially Alex Ferguson and myself) debated about this very problem on the RQ Daily... First off, the last time I looked, Orlanth and Ernalda are deities, and have plenty dedicated worshippers. Thunder Rebels attempted to make that "meh, another initiate of Orlanth" into something fun and individual, and lost itself in the labyrinths of subcultitis. RuneQuest never had this. Initiates of other deities than Orlanth and Ernalda make up one in seven of the adult Orlanthi initiates. Male Esrolians have significantly less worshipers of Orlanth as we know him, although Orlanth/Barntar remains the cult with probably more than half the male population of Esrolia, and Orlanth the non-plowing shepherder having another significant portion. So maybe twice the number of non-Orlanth initiated males. I still don't have any clue to the amount of Daka Fal "initiates" who may make up a significant portion of the "non-initiates". Where Praxian Beast Nomads appear to have one in three adults following Daka Fal more or less exclusively, what is the proportion in Sartar or Esrolia, or are they included in the Orlanth and Ernalda initiates? Does the soul link to a rune deity (like Orlanth, Ernalda, Issaries or Humakt) overwrite the access to Daka Fal's magic? But then Biturian was able to use the spirit gift of the Baboon shaman. My old case for "Low Initiation" following the RuneQuest examples of Yelm the Youth and Aldrya's Children of the Forest creates a semi-initiation. Membership in a city cult or a regimental cult, or one's relation to a clan wyter. In the RuneQuest terms under which the 1994 discussion was held, the POW donation was a major issue to me. The POW went into creating (and defining) the spiritual/magical "organ" through which the individual's magic interacts with the Other Side, and the first imprinting of this in the adulthood rites is a big step towards rune magic, shamanism or sorcery. With sorcery acceptable in a sleuth of cults outside of Orlanth and Ernalda, it looks like the imprinting prevents sorcery if done through the full Heortling initiation, but allows it if you don't come out of the adulthood rites as initiate of the cultural deity.

There are ways to prop up rival emperors, or at least viable alternatives. Preparing to undergo the Ten Tests might weaken the imperial authority of the incumbent, at least over the supporters of the challenger. The Yelm cult isn't limited to Dara Happa - this is what makes the horse warlords so dangerous for the Empire. They come with equivalent Solar authority, and can establish a rival authority that Yelm cultists can switch allegiance to. Their reign apparently warranted the use of the Crimson Bat and similar Chaos atrocities. Are you telling me that the Seven Mothers rebelled against a benevolent and altruistic regime? The Lunar rebellion was based on Rinliddi, which is at least untypical Dara Happa. The Fortunate Succession p.43 has this "nice" and "enlightened" bit: This example of Carmanian mercy says it all, doesn't it? Gartemirus may have been an enlightened and righteous ruler, but he is not part of the Yelmic canon, and thus by definition unjust. Sheng Seleris on the other hand is an embodiment of Yelmic justice. "Measured Command from Above." The measures may be drastic, but they certainly come from above. Whoever comes out of the Ten Tests wearing the crown, by whichever means, is the just emperor. There is a number of rites that can be taken, and while Solar propaganda states that the Jenarong rites or the Ovosto rites are less powerful, a sufficiently holy Emperor-to-be can offset this against a candidate with better pedigree and a more refined approach. That's how Ovosto became emperor. Yelmgatha enabled this development - he probably pawned his emperorship to Teelo Estara, possibly knowingly taking on the role as the sacrificial ruler (as per the Naveria myth?). As soon as he accepted Takenegi as co-emperor, his days were numbered (about 1000). The Dara Happan imperial authority extends beyond Dara Happa proper since halfway forever - look at the imperial musters of Murharzarm or Urvairinus. The Dara Happans have exported their bureaucracy even into Pelanda. Yelmic overseers - even a lowly market administrator or official in charge of sweeping the streets - are divinity embodied. Flawless pedigree used to be the selection criteria. Takenegi isn't the first dynastic founder to turn a deeply flawed pedigree into one generally accepted. Avivath's origins are not that flawless. Denesiod was the son of the lewd woman. Karvanyar was the Poor Woman's Son. Bisoshan re-established Idovanic equivalency that was first introduced under Sarenesh but repudiated by Sarenesh's grandson Karsdevan. The first emperor to ascend to the office in History was Vuranostrum, a nomad, and of unquestioned nobility and justice (though tested by the heirs of Jenarong and Gerruskoger). Vuranostum's imperial authority is glorified in Dara Happa. He and Jenarong establish the imperial claim for the solar hero from the east. Avivath undermined the Jenarong rites, and Khordavu replaced them by a more urban variant which has remained dominant since the Theyalans ousted the horse warlords. The Buserian cult is a Deep State bureaucracy that advises (and probably "translates") the demigod pronouncements of the Yelmic nobility embodying imperial authority, and it looks like they did so for Jenarong and Vuranostum as well. Sheng's regime brought bureaucracy, and thus legitimacy. Whatever horrors he and his minions inflicted on a rebellious population are on the same level as those of Cartavar or of Teelo Estara and Takenegi. Telling the story from the perspective of the weeder girl Greya or of a dry farmer in Doblian or Rinliddi whose grain fields become designated as horse pasture doesn't capture the crimes of the Yelmic nobility who had pledged those populations to Sheng, then defected (or let themselves be overthrown) by Takenegi. Dara Happa on Horse still remained after Sheng - the Jenet-aror of Rinliddi were replaced by the Wyula-or only in 6/10, more than a wane after the demise of Sheng.

I don't think that mere 16 MP are enough to go past a CM 18, even when multispelled, as each spell is below the threshold of breaking the CM.6 Shield is the more reliable source of CM and slows down enemy spellcasting as each spell needs to be boosted or otherwise intensified to get past the Shield, but then, professional magicians will go for dismissing the shield first. Even so, a (supporting) character (like a familiar) with shield 6 matrices will be able to re-buff the CM within a single casting in a single combat round. Relying on Dispel means you need a number of Dispellers on the offensive side so you can keep up the Dispel barrage able t surpass the CM effect at least once per melee round. (And of course you need a small regiment's daily output of MP for an exchange like this...) So for a rune magicians battle, you will want Dismiss Magic 6 or better matrices to strip the opposition. Ideally used by a supporting character so that your own magic action can remain an offensive one. You will want to have a strong Warding for your supporters - so possibly a warded chariot, with the ornate yoke including the draught animals in the protected area. Warding is limited to intensity 4 (providing a CM of 8 ) but extra points can extend the area. Unlike Shield, Warding cannot be dispelled, either, but requires the warding stakes to be removed or destroyed physically (not necessarily manually, though). So let's assume two rune magicians coming at one another on warded chariots (or carts, or palanquins, or boats, or howdas, or some other mobile contraption), laden with a number of small sized familiars equipped with rune magic matrices. Any spell that you cast on such a combatant needs a minimum total load of 9 MP, in other words takes up an entire melee round for the active magician. For additional individual protection, you need to use Shield which you might want to top off with Countermagic or Protection, depending on how much you fear physical force intervention between the magic exchange. Having a silk pavilion with active Protection as a barrier against incoming missile fire or physical damage magic will provide shelter. Linen will work, too, but is heavier. You probably will want two or three of these as that Protection might be a target for enemy Dispels, so you will want to have two supporters exchanging and refreshing these as they are used up. Sprites as familiars might be useful for this, or small Runners. (If your Yelmalian goes the full Aldryami support crew, you might want to use living plants rather than cloth...) Live crystals can make a big difference, so be sure to equip your familiars and other supporters with these. There doesn't seem to be a limit for how many rune magic matrices can be refueled in a single worship service - so there is the rules exploit for your prospective max RuneQuest level munchkin. Warding and similar common rune magic matrices might best be obtained from the Daka Fal cult, as you only need supporters with conveniently spaced seasonal holidays to recharge them through worship as needed. Given huge reserves of magic points, it is at best a "not yet". Casting it takes time. Casting it on top of an existing Shield 4 or bigger takes a supporter an entire melee round or more. Rune magicians batttling it out like this are starting to feel like Mech Warriors or Battleships. But why not have a magician on a howdaed Rhino face one on a palanquin carried by sacred oxen, with all of the gimmicks mentioned above? Such rune magicians probably approach Khan counters in Nomad Gods/Dragon Pass. With all the supporters, they are units rather than individuals. Operating such a chariot or howda doesn't limit the main rune magicians to one person. A Rune Lord and a Rune Priest sharing such a platform will probably outperform a Rune Lord-Priest on his own. The logistics and support structures behind them probably require an entire staff of bureaucrats. And they still can be taken out by a sufficiently high number of (magical) glass cannons risking elimination. If these glass cannons know the backdoor from Hell, they would even be re-usable... This might be how Sheng operated.

Business like the Lunar occupation in Sartar and Heortland, then - e.g. where Char-un were stationed, or where Chaos was tolerated or even released. Sheng's minions use terror tactics to quell rebellions. Tatius does the same. So did Parg Ilisi. But let's leave Sheng alone, and look at the evil tyranny of the Bull Shahs. Or the Dragon Sun. Ok, it is scaly, but it is golden, too. And what atrocities did Vastolf son of Quivin impose on the Dara Happans after the Gbaji Wars?

There he quails...

Chicken!