Joerg

Another "big picture collective we" is a bunch of socially non-adapted people getting to interact with other people meeting around a table rolling dice and toting character sheets. The community of role-players has had more than its fair share of people who suck at interacting with other people in real life, and it did wonders as group therapy for those socially excluded people. Nowadays, people from this maladapted background form a big part of the gamer and GM pool. Which is one reason why things like Gamer-Gate are getting support. RPGs have managed to integrate a lot of folk who have problems with interpersonal relationships, possibly bordering the autistic spectrum. Of course these people who often have learned much of their empathy from the hobby are under-equipped to be welcoming and sensitive. RPG still works (fine) as their rehab. One lesson of life is that not all of your friends will make friends with each other just because you like both sets of them. Some groups just don't mix well. While all may be poorer for never having met or being exposed to that other group's gaming creativity, if they had met, chances are high they wouldn't have warmed to one another. This small extra effort may actually be a trigger to fold back into anti-social behavior for those who made the achievement to become sufficiently socially adept to play with other role-players. Not every established role-player is that stable as a person. I have no idea how anyone else's player composition looks, but I have met a great share of socially handicapped role-players - organizing a convention and a university gaming group that was also the only public meeting place will bring even a mildly socially handicapped person into that kind of contact. Most of these people are functional in society, but may have to work on that continually. My point is - there are people who might know better, but who already have to work hard at doing as good as they do, and for whom doing better might be too much.

To be fair, the Theyalan cultural ideas are among the most widespread in all of Glorantha - the Theyalans did a good job spreading these ideas all the way into Malkioni lands, and then the God Learners (the ones about non-Malkioni gods, not the ones perfecting the Malkioni creed) picked them up for their monomyth and carried them into regions where no Theyalan ever sailed before. There is no such wealth of lore on any other culture in Glorantha. The official Doraddi material gets less than 40 pages so far between the Guide and Revealed Mythologies, and while GaGoG might add as many again, that's about it. Jeff Okamoto's log of Sandy's RQ campaign gives an insight in where much of the original Pamaltela material came from, but much of that game is set in the mountain passes between Laskal and Jolar, a region that receives a few lines of text in the Guide, and is not typical for either neighboring culture. Other than Sandy's game and the stories about the Six-legged Empire, there was the Artmali epic which may never have been written up in any detail, and it isn't Doraddi, either. Doing a game in the East would have gone weird places, too... I wonder whether Ralios or Fronela would have made a much different game, but to be honest, I doubt it. Less would have been said about the Lunars (who are mostly absent from RQG so far), and a little more about the Malkioni, but in that case the books might not be out yet, or would just begin to become available, as Malkionism needs lots of revision. No inheriting ancient texts, but extensive text analysis, game design decisions, and more such work-intensive problems.

The difference between deities (that manifest only through rites or their Time-bound manifestations) and demigods (who act freely in the Inner World) appears to be the rules of the compromise. Demigods (and worshiped heroes) may have their Otherworld abode much like deities, usually manifesting as a star (e.g. Arkat, Errinoru, Sheng). Entities like Sorana Tor and Rigtaina can be bargained with (that's what wooing effectively is - changing the distance beween the prospective partners).

The "Three Distinct Otherworlds" (and the Collision of the Four Worlds founding myth for Glorantha) is mainly pursued in Hero Wars and HQ1 era products (including much of the Stafford Library), as Greg was fairly adamant on that concept in those years and meant the softening of the distinctions to be a theme for the Hero Wars, for player groups to pursue - a valid but possibly too geeky theme. I have no idea whether Greg mellowed on that concept or whether Moon Design as the new owner of the Gloranthan heritage decided to bow to the pressure from the tribe (and possibly their own preference) in their lines of publication. Already RQ3 was fairly strict in this magical distinction, although spirits from theist cults were still present (though significantly less than in RQ2 products). But then, few fully written up NPCs for RQ3 were published that had not been somehow translated from RQ2 prior to the RQ Renaissance of the early nineties. When discussing HQ products, you'll have to draw a line between the Issaries published books and those by MoonDesign. It wasn't that apparent with Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes, but that book really was a break away from Thunder Rebels and Storm Tribe. I managed to discuss the separation of worlds with Greg, a couple of times in person and occasionally via the internet. The collision of the Four Worlds was an interesting cosmological concept and led to a number of interesting concepts, but the retcon that made Genert a Great Spirit rather than a deity, and giving a similar status to Surensliba, the ancestress of the Darjiinians (and Doblians, and Manimati) opened quite more cans of worms than Greg's concepts manage to repair. But then, a more fragmented mythical landscape of what we know to have survived into Time makes the catastrophe of the Greater Darkness and the patchwork nature of the shards salvaged by the Web of Arachne Solara more poignant. I have come to believe that Godtime Glorantha used to be a lot larger than the God Learner maps based on what survived in the Web of Arachne Solara show us. Ancient Danmalastan doesn't map that well on the western quarter of the Lozenge (if you divide it diagonally from the corners through Magasta's Pool), and not all of that distortion needs to be blamed on the tectonics of the collision of the Four Separate Worlds. Quite a lot can be explained by the shrinkage to the mosaic that is Arachne Solara's web.

I would make this a rune point pool to the spirit cult or spirit society, which may have several spirits able to grant a rune spell. A limited range of common rune magic might be available from that pool, too. There are lesser Otherworld entities that sit on the border line between deity and spirit. Animist entities may receive sacrifice in addition to other practices (like e.g. ecstatic worship), and some will grant limited rune magic. Others may offer a weird skill or some special spirit spell extremely hard to get otherwise even for a shaman. A spirit suddenly gaining a huge cult to support it might rise up in power and re-discover its former nature as a greater spirit, or perhaps even a great spirit. Or deity. RQG doesn't make much difference for entities contacted in a worship rite. (HQG allows some distinction by using the spirit rune for animist interaction with an Otherworld entity, but in RQG that rune only appears as a sorcerous form that needs to be mastered for summonings or as a descriptor for disembodied entities.)

That entry is mighily confused, or "demensed". (I might have corrected that alternate spelling if I had not been blocked from editing the wikia) The Black Tower of Havan Vor is the demesne of the Judge of the Dead at the Court of Silence, and/or holds it. From the description, it bears a marked similarity to the Obsidian Palace in the Surface World. The Court of Silence may describe a place, or it may describe the assembled court of the King/Judge of the Dead. (Not that "king" and "judge" are that far apart in their meanings, if you look at the history of the tribes of Israel. The difference is a rite of anointing that may make the title inheritable in the male line, really.) There are two mentions of the tower of Havan Vor in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes (sidebar p.343, p.347), both in a possessive sense rather than "the tower is named Havan Vor", alongside many mentions of Havan Vor as a destination in the Underworld that don't necessarily denote it as a place. P.346 has "Havan Vor, the Court of Silence". The text has Havan Vor cry out “Not since the Disrupter ransacked my hall have the Living dared challenge me so!” (p.349) - this doesn't appear to be typical tower behavior. It isn't clear whether Havan Vor is used interchangeably with Darhudan (which in this context might be "King of the Dead") or whether the Court of Silence is something like a collective entity, possibly a chorus of the judge as in a Greek tragedy. Havan Vor definitely does not stand for a building or landmark in any sane reading of the material.

I am not convinced that the reindeer people of northeastern Genertela (including Dara Happa) are identical to the western Fronelan reindeer folk. Reindeer are fantastically versatile beasts - I have read about polar expeditions where draft/pack beast reindeer were fed with dried cod. In the cold desert of the Darkness, such protein may also have come from frozen corpses, e.g. of more hapless former Dara Happans who had not made it under the Dome. There is a good chance that some Pentan ancestors were among those cannibalistic reindeer herders - the Starlight Wanderers started out on foot, herding goats, then pushing into colder and colder northern lands. At least two horse emperors of Dara Happa are notorious for cannibalism (Eater of Flesh and Eats Women). But then I expect cannibalism (and digging up frozen corpses) to be a common survival crime in Greater Darkness northern Genertela. Deals with monsters and demons doesn't necessarily mean deals with Chaos. The Pelorian forms of Zorak Zoran (including Shargash and Hell Lodril) are demon lords and monsters in their own right. The uz are Hellspawn, too, and hence demonic - at least to the Dara Happans. I am not too certain that the difference between a Shadzoring and a slightly deformed uz can be told by any but uz ancestor worshipers or Shargashi. Hollri are also known as Ice Demons - another typical form of monster in those non-times. Then there are dehori - another typical form of demon. Chaos is possible as another form of demons that were propitiated. The occasional human sacrifice may have helped to keep the norns or blue walkers appeased...

I am pretty certain that either names are titles. Darhudan and Darhudana are Grandfather and Grandmother Mortal, emphasizing their role as ancestors. "Dar" also means "chief", but might mean "grand" in this context. Havan Vor might well mean "First to Die". See Voria, the first deity to emerge from the Gates of Dawn.

2 seasons and 1D8 weeks, according to Borderlands and Beyond p.39. It is really the defining text for broos.

Look out for a thread on the subject of bovine looks and ancestry elsethread, soonish. Don't awaken sleeping dragons!

Not in the anus, but in the intestinal cavity. The larva first grows as a parasite to the host, until it has ripened enough to feed on meat - that's when it begins to eat its way out of the belly, Alien-style. Whether face-hugger or bestiality, the larva will have somehow penetrated the intestine into the cavity, leeched upon the blood flow of the host and presumably using it for its waste products, too. The broo larva still has to beat the diseases its progenitor likely was passing on to the host to kill off the host. It will likely inherit those diseases.

That rainmaker account was part of Greg's pre-Patreon "Friends of Glorantha"-sponsored novella "Ten Women Well Loved". Chaosium should really get this published somehow. My info on the Harmastsons is straight from HotHP.

From my short brush with mineralogy, what type of rock was shaped into that stone wall, and did the shaped stone retain the physical properties of the rock it was before? Did it retain banding, inclusions etc, like a slice of marble or granite? Or was it more or less made ductile, "rolled" into the desired shape by the magic and then made as rigid as it was before? Did it retain the tension of the rolling process, and could there have been something similar to a cooling process as per Tears of Bologna glass? Things like these matter. If you take chalk rock or sandstone, hitting that with a hammer will destroy the local cohesion, and the rock will crumble where you hit. Hitting granite or basalt will have much less visible impact effect, but the accumulated stress may cause inclusions or intrusions to separate, and to form cracks sooner or later. If "shape stone" still is active (or activated again), the hammer might be swallowed by the wall. A similar thing may occur if a spirit or elemental was bound into that wall, or if it was awakened by the process of erecting the wall - how animistic do you want your setting to be?

YGMV, but Harmast in Greg's stories was a descendant of the (by then destroyed) Berennethtelli, grew up on or around Exile Stead, and spent his early married life among the Hendriki of northern Heortland. His quests somehow started on the Hill of Orlanth Victorious but ended in Ralios. Harmast made a living as rain bringer through the subcult of Niskis the Lover, an alias of Orlanth during his self-judged exile from the Storm Tribe by which he seduced his temporarily widowed queen. It isn't quite clear whether anybody in the Storm Village was fooled by this... Anyway, one of the symptoms of Niskis making love was rainfall out of a clear (cloudless) sky, and as a result Harmast's job as holy person was to make love to quite a few Earth Queen volunteers to combat the draught that Lokamayadon's imprisonment of Orlanth had brought to Kethaela. After helping out the Hendriki one year, Harmast was recruited to aid the Esrolians who suffered likewise. At Nochet, his Berennethtelli tattoos somehow had morphed into Kodigvari tattoos, making him a persona non grata despite his magical (and physical) efforts on their behalf. As a result, dozens of Harmastsons could be found in Dragon Pass and Kethaela, and they would have a couple of heroical and tragical roles to play in the course of the Gbaji Wars. If Harmast had access to Ralian lore, then probably through some of his companions. His personal and mythical experiences were purely Heortling.

Later cities didn't build the houses for eternity, either. The La Tene oppidum of Manching had houses built from massive standardized beams that would be recycled when the rest of the house became untrustworthy. (I guess the excavators deduced this from fairly identical remains of wood with significantly different dendrochronological ages.) The permanence of the location (or at least the relative location on the narrowing tell as it grew upward) of the individual houses is interesting, too. The plots aren't that big. The houses remain individual (which leads to the assumption that a construction worker could perform his duty between the walls of two adjacent houses without much difficulty).

There are cultic and mythic precedences that classify extramarital sex as non-adulterous, or as mythically inevitable though regrettable (in other words, the Trickster did it). Quite a lot of fertility rites require the practice of fertility, whether just by the protagonist of the magic or whether by the majority of the congregation. What happens in the rites has little to no bearings to your marital vows. You become the deity or the vessel for the deity, which makes human concerns a distant second in importance. The description of the Orlanthi in Thunder Rebels and KoDP was quite puritanic. Ernalda in Thunder Rebels would have been at home in Ancient Greece, except for the Queen aspect. The mythic precedence provided by Orlanth and Ernalda tells a very different story. Orlanth is polyamory and not that straight, and Ernalda has married just about any ruling or protector deity she encountered (we don't learn much about marriages between Ernalda and other females, though). We don't learn about child-births from these interactions in Thunder Rebels even though we get dozens of names of her daughters. But then, Ernalda herself might be able to influence the amount of paternal inheritance in her children. Orlanth has a number of myths in which he succumbed to temptation, not the least his wooing of Ernalda.

The point of my post was to clarify my opinion that the point of the broo reproductive organ doesn't have the capacity to pierce skin or hide. From a reproductive point of view, an insertion that may cause the death of the host before the larva is ready to eat its way out of the host is detrimental, which makes a lateral insertion of the larva into the intestinal cavity an unsuitable reproductive strategy.

Those numbers were purely from memory. I need to install KoDP on my current tablet to check (the last ones which had it don't work any more). Anyway, KoDP is not exactly an economic simulation, and those numbers may have been yearly rather than seasonal cost (considering the amount of shrines and temples your KoDP clan could support without falling into the negative sheep production problem - negative cattle production could be caught up with cattle raiding or general raiding, but somehow those raiders failed to bring back sheep, and nobody would trade them away either). I am not entirely sure whether this is that harsh as the beasts sacrificed will still be within the food pool of the clan, and they would be mainly surplus male beasts culled from the herds for efficiency. Your typical sacrificial bull will be two years old and selected for its fur coloration, with its other non-breeding brothers with less pleasant skin coloration being gelded as draft oxen. Your sacrificial cow on the other side is likely to have given birth to six to eight calves before getting culled from the herd as her milk quota decreases or the birthing becomes more problematic. I have seen the claim that the Zoroastrian reforms had as one aim to preserve the cattle herds from the demands of the magi for sacrifice that were getting out of hand (possibly the Mithras cult with the tauromachy as a central rite?). Anyway, the temple maintenance also includes the maintenance of the temple or shrine maintainer, and might have to be reduced as doubling for the temple and the livelihood of its personnel and retainers, and possibly contributing to the public expenses.

It might even be a case of different bloodlines doing stuff in their established ways. From how I interprete Jeff's insistence on Mediterranean architecture, longhouse loghouses or square loghouses would have been the state of the art at the time of the Resettlement until the reign of Sartar. Saronil expanded the access to masonry to an extent that clans on the royal highways or with wealthy temples in the hinterland would afford stone buildings, too. (Never the Varmandi, though... Those guys still think of second stories or chimneys as chaotic sorcery.) I still think that Orlanth's drinking hall should follow the long hall model - that is the only kind of architecture that lends to a Turing-machine like banquet area which holds all Orlanthi on a High Holy Day. Jokes aside, masonry is not part of general Orlanthi culture outside of well-organized kingdoms, while carpentry has its own deity (or rather, the all-purpose crafter of Orlanthi mythology is the carpenter). That appears to be the case for sacral buildings mainly. The chief's (or king's) seat is more likely to be a longhouse, as that is the available masonry for a feasting house of such dimension short of a basilica. Ernaldan hospitality doesn't seem to extend to mass feasting like the Storm Tribe's (except when those are joint occasions). That said, the feasting at worship rites will often be an open air barbecue/fair rather than an indoors activity where the holy sites are (above-ground) natural features extended by an altar. An entire clan living in a single building (and effectively a single room) should be the exception, at least where normal clan size is 500 to 1000 heads. Housing a major bloodline of a clan (still 150-400 heads) in a single timber-framed house is already a major architectural feat worthy the efforts Hrodgar put into the mead-hall Heorot that was harrowed by Grendel. The Rohirrim architecture from the Lord of the Rings movies did to Iron Age wooden housing what Schloss Neuschwanstein did to a medieval knight's castle. On the other hand, the Trypolye/Trypillia mega-settlements that started this thread apparently had two-story buildings occupied by farmers. I have found another good source on these settlements - the pdf of the exhibition catalogue The Lost World of Old Europe, an exhibition collecting artifacts from the Copper Age cultures of south-eastern Europe to which these settlements belong. One of the contributions mentions a paper that claims that the farmer population would have to have farmed the environment of the city for 7 km outward just for grain cultivations, based on simulations using geo-information systems, and that there would have to have been satellite settlements around these mega-settlements to enable the farmers to work on these fields eficiently. One argument was that these 7 km would be too far to bring in the harvest by ox carts, but then I wonder how having satellite settlements would have changed the amount of grain that needed to be carted into the mega-settlement. There are other possible solutions, like temporary shelters among the fields for the work-intensive times of the year that usually take place in clement conditions, and sitting out the inclement winters in the shelter of the mega-settlement. The absence of any cemetery for the Trypolye mega-settlements suggests that the inhabitants used ossuaries or cremation and stored the remains of their dead in houses inside the mega-settlement. Not too different from burying your ancestors under the mud floor of your house... It takes exceptional soil for a copper age farming community to be able to concentrate in (artificial) hill settlements (aka "tells", hills that mainly consist of the debris of previous settlement materials), but the Ukraine has those meter-thick loess deposits of fertile black earth which I suspect can be found in parts of Dragon Pass and much of Esrolia, too. If those 7 km distance caused a problem for the Trypolye mega-settlements, the city of Nochet is way more extreme with its 12 km belt of cemetery separating the city from the nearest grain fields. Even with riverine and bay transport, the grain imports for Nochet have an extra measure of difficulty. Boldhome has a similar quandary with its 800 m rise (or more) above the fertile Killard Vale, mitigated only by the excellent royal road, but aggravated by the absence of water transport as a means of transport. I guess that the majority of the grain available in Boldhome was carried there on the backs of mules, hundreds of those. Somewhere in the less fertile hills around Boldhome there must be a clan or three specializing in breeding mules (i.e. horses and donkeys). I would nominate the Sambari as one possible candidate, and possibly the Kheldon clans north of Killard Vale. (Associating Kallyr's stubborn character with donkey breeding is a nice side benefit...)

Also consider the rules for taking cover, with the mount providing a similar service as a shield may. Hitting the opposite leg should automatically resulte in hitting the mount (or the saddle), and depending on the situation, other portions may be covered - a frontal attack to the abdomen may well hit the mount's head or neck instead.

There may be circumstances that require the player characters to miss their regularly scheduled holy day. For rune point renewal the player characters can always sponsor an extra worship service for the community, providing the sacrifices (and paying for the incense, fuel etc., as well as for additional bread and veggies to be eaten alongside the sacrificial meat in the feast with which they bribe the congregation to attend, and - if required, i.e. if the characters don't lead the service themselves - for the god-talker or priest holding the service (at least 3 days of work for that, with ritual cleansing etc. as preparation). They won't get as good a timing bonus as a serice on a regularly scheduled holy day, but taking the appropriate weekday and possibly week might mitigate that slightly. Extra sacrifices may take care of the rest. King of Dragon Pass had rules for the seasonal upkeep of a temple or shrine, most of which will have gone into the weekly and seasonal worship services. I'd have to look those rates up, but I seem to recall 4 cattle, 10 sheep and 10 cattle worth of goods per shrine per season, double that for a temple, quadruple that for a big temple (congregation to be feasted). There will always be people willing to sacrifice a little of their daily recoverable magic (aka MP) for a bit of a free lunch and extra piety. In case of doubt, you could have a mini-session with the chief delegating such an impromptu extra service to the player characters. Other than rune point retrieval, such displays of piety and generosity are useful for diplomacy or politicking inside the clan or tribe, and there will be other purposes that can be married to such an extracurricular service - e.g. marriage negotiations, guesting a VIP belonging to or favoring that cult, ..

There are places in Sartar which get by with one or no known local event other than the Windstop and the Dragonrise. The Lismelder are such a backwater, as are the Locaem or the Torkani. If you play in an appeaser clan like the Balmyr, the Lunar conflict is a lot less pronounced than in a place with active repression. Have you had a look at The Coming Storm and Eleven Lights? Of course, everything is described there, but in a way that allows you to experience things as a character (or party). Other than the Windstop, you can play the pre-defined events as happening elsewhere or as a conflict to be shaped by your players. For some clans or tribes there are existential crises which you can use as the main theme of your game, like e.g. the Firebull Rebellion among the Sambari, or the Kultain destruction (first of a significant part of the reinforcements and train to the siege of Whitewall, then the tribe). Once you have altered the timeline, you need to "heal" the future events around that time and place, of course, with the option to make your campaign history the dominant change. This might result in some adaptation of future scenarios, or if your party is over-achieving (in success or failure) a significant re-write of the setting. What happens if you play the Dragonrise scenario, and your player characters manage to botch the quest? (See the discussion in Alastor's Skull Inn in response to my Kraken report.) Do you opt for "Game Over", do you use Deus Ex Machina (making your players' party only the decoy in the scheme, with a separate quest undergoing in the sky world), or do play in a Sartar that is liberated by the nomads of Prax with another temple-crushing magic? Or is Tatius' new model temple an abysmal failure, resulting in a chaos void eating up the participants, thereby liberating the dragon? Player agency in the metaplot is a topic that never gets old in roleplaying discussions, as there are numerous schools of thought about it. This is about your (probably unwritten) game contract between narrator(s) and players as much as it is about the setting. Given the dearth of published HeroQuest Glorantha scenarios outside of the two major campaigns and the D101 Games supplements, most such games tend to be DIY affairs anyway, and the question is how much DIY and background creation you can load on your narrators or player assistance.

Even the stove broo's "mother" had openings their broo parent was using. (I don't recall whether the stove was supposed to be cast iron or copper, but this broo was reported by Sandy Petersen. To stay alive, the broo had to keep the fire in its belly running, leading to a rather vegetarian diet.) Holes are easily made with spears or knives. The broo reproductive organ doesn't get an attack or a damage stat assigned in RQ, unless a Chaos Feature warrants such.

Bronze Age civilizations occupied most of temperate and subtropical Eurasia and northern Africa. The urban civilizations you are thinking about are mostly Copper Age or even Neolithic high cultures or successors thereof, except for Europe where the needs for water management were negligible (the Europeans did have to re-invent agriculture to match temperate conditions, though, something the Anatolian neolithic immigrants managed in the first two centuries of their presence). That depends strongly on the type of forest you are taking down - removing trees with surface roots (like firs) are a different proposal from deep-rooting ones. One of the oldest fire technologies used by humans (other than cooking food) is to clear the undergrowth from open forests to incite regrowth of tasty successor plants that will attract herbivores into regions without much cover, and this kind of forest management will have happened in most deciduous forests of the Old World. (I have no idea about the forestation of the Outback 50k years ago, whether it was savannah or steppe.)

To repair their ships, they would need to kill Sea Dragons for their material. Or since the Ban, if they were riverine Waertagi sailing the Janube. No idea what became of those on the Sweet Sea or the Poralistor. Some may have missed the Battle of Tanian's Victory. It is possible that another portion of the Waertagi survived in Old Trade on Old Brithos, and that they were allowed to operate some sort of shuttle service between Brithos and Sog and Arolanit on lesser vessels (probably not made of Sea Dragons) The returnees from Hell are easily the equivalent of the undead crew members of the Black Pearl or Davy Jones. and joining their ranks as a volunteer needs some special motivation IMO. The re-appearance of Brithos sounds a bit like the release of the Mad Sultan from Tork - a quid pro quo in lives to be trapped beyond that Otherworld barrier. Send in a sufficiently large fleet to equate the population of Brithos (which is quite likely not that big), and there may be an exchange. (Which reminds me of the possibility of someone sending a huge mass of prisoners of war into Tork in the hope of releasing King Orios of Tarsh and/or the descendants of his army. The wave that escaped and ended up in Dorastor may have made up the better part of the Mad Sultanate, unless the Grayskins bred profusely.) Both the Whirlpool and the Gates of Dusk are one-way routes into Hell. Another one may be the Southpath exit. The upswell from the Pool appears to arrive in the western Sramak's River, judging by the re-appearance of the Firebergs exclusively on the Western Ocean and their absence from the East Isles. The port at the source of the Celestial River isn't exactly fixed in its position towards Glorantha. The Sky Dome makes a full revolution every night, so it is unlikely that the port follows that revolution, but it might follow the precession of the Sky Dome. Unless one experiences a shrinking of distances in the Outer World, the speed by which the Sky Dome revolves may exceed any speed imaginable for Gloranthan vessels, although Sramak's River might match that rotation.