Joerg

How intertwined were Daysenerus and Nysalor? Their leadership being illuminated doesn't differ much from the later Tharkantus cult leadership being draconized. Compare Black Arkat - after Daramhy's vendetta against fellow Kitori (who happened to worship Black Arkat), the Hendriki king who hated the Arkatings (never making clear whether he meant Kitori darkmen/not-quite-humans or sorcerous Arkati) laid the seeds and the Tax Slaughter cemented their being pushed into hiding, but never extinction. So why would non-illuminated Daysenerus cult elements be completely eradicated? They could very well have hidden in the glow of Harono. From the Ezel episode, it does appear that Palangio did pay his respect to local cults that weren't Heortling. The Esrolians managed to retain their local names for Yelm (Harono) and Lodril (Vestkarthan), and kept their myths apart from the monomyth despite being (under)mined extensively by God Learner investigators/students.. Palangio would have built temple garrisons, and those structures would have been targeted and probably re-dedicated, depriving the cultists of their homes and their holy places.

Not in rural areas, where farmers alost always find ways to hang on to enough food and seeds to last into the next agricultural cycle regardless of taxation and requisitions, but the urban mobs upheld by maize bread distributed by Teelo Norri and similar Lunar charities will be hit badly, and then cause all manners of serious trouble. At least that's what I still think about Heartland urban populations led (or led astray) by Lunar populists, as often as not directly inspired by her Redness (or madness) rather than acting through an imperially sanctioned cult. We All Are Us is a fairly heavy tax burden if those prole mobs suddenly are considered holy people of some kind. While Victor Hugo's Paris in Les Miserables or the Hunchback of Notre Dame may be way to modern for the Bronze Age society of Dara Happa, the underworld shown in the Rome TV series mixed with religious fanaticism might work in a place and time closer to Babylon, too. I think that wIthout the Marian reforms, the Cimbri and Teutones would have been as bad news for the Romans as the Celtic migration under Brennus two centuries earlier, and Rome's reaction against the subsequent invaders in the next two centuries all benefitted from that. Sort of makes me wonder whether Hwarin Dalthippa is the Lunar equivalent to the Marian reforms for dealing with the Barbarians, or whether her taking over Sylila had more in common with Caesar's acquisition of transalpine Gallia putting such troops on the offensive rather than the defensive. There is a distinct possibility that dealing with the hill barbarians follows Carmanian doctrine. The problems basically started when the Romans stopped hiring them as legionaries or foederati for their internal and external security. Using up their regular forces in civil war and turning the limitati to a role not that different from chiefdom warriors certainly contributed. The eastern counter-attacks occurred only after the tribal nobility had adopted Roman ways. The Ostrogoths with their apartheit due to their Arian confession may have been the least romanized opponents of the Byzantine reconquista. The Vandals were thoroughly Romanized when Belisarius conquered them, out of their own desire, and bore little similarity to the effective barbarians under Geiserich who had received such bad press that the term vandalism persists into our days. If I interprete Jeff's recurring statements correctly, the northern Orlanthi are as willing to adopt the civilized trappings of their northern neighbors. The Yelmalio conversion probably profited greatly from this tendency. Only where Esrolia or fancy western stuff provides a closer role model. Pelorian trappings may be less prominent. However, the Sarotar murder did a lot to make it less fashionable to ape Nochet, maybe not up to the de-Frenching that occurred during and after the 100 Years War in Britain, but certainly measurable. And for all the traditionalist disgust of Meldeks, Malkioni trappings and concepts did seep into Kethaela. Maybe not as "Heortland knights" since knghts have been re-written out of Glorantha, but in similar ways. (And I don't mean just Belintar's adoption of Jrusteli administration.) And leaving no spectacular ruins behind them, might be forgotten more easily. The cause for the Anglo-Saxon migration for instance is largely unknown, although a century of local warfare precedes a century of unknown whereabouts of the Angles and Saxons from around Anglia. Then there is a distinct lack of tribal identity when migratory groups merge. I keep remaining uncomfortable to use the term "clan" for the continental hundreds or Sippen, and I am far from certain that these social units survived participation in a migration. Bloodlines would persist, of course, but the social unit may have shifted when no longer defined by the land claim that defined these units. And from certain story-lines in King of Dragon Pass, clans were re-formed and merged a lot during the Resettlement of Dragon Pass, too. While a few groups might rightfully claim a continuation of clan identity from before those migrations, in most cases it is a polite and political fiction. The Colymar clan was formed in Kethaela for the purpose of the migration, for instance, and had no real separate identity before that. The Helvetii are the poster boy case for a failed migration, but not due to bad logistics - rather due to a surprise new player. The later empire possibly faced too many immigrants at once to properly assimilate them as the Huns, climate change and/or (resulting) local warfare drove northern tribes beyond the limes. Not for lack of willingness, as the Vandal example shows, but simply for lack of time. In this regard, the Lunar empire with its inclusive doctrine is vastly different from its Dara Happan predecessor. The Carmanians as conquerers did not mind very much whether a subject population was indigenous or rather recently invaded the place, as long as they remained subject and provided their dues.

I'm a bit disappointed that you didn't undo the topographical changes made by the death of the serpent which destroyed Akez Loradak and created the Lead Hills. From the travelogue of the God Learner expedition to Hendrikiland, I get the impression that Zatan Lake (now in Kitori lands) was part of the core Hendriki lands, and not really troll-dominated. The Sylangi and Bacofi appear to have been tributary tribes of the Kitori (almost like Vendref) before Tarkalor ousted the Kitori from the Amber Fields around Vaantar. The Kitori may have had an unfair advantage in the Crossline, providing a border they could cross (at least in troll shape), but their enemies couldn't. It isn't quite clear what there was before the Lead Hills collapsed across the Creek-Stream River. It may have been agricultural land used by Hendriki or Kitori. The Kitori certainly lost big way when Akez Loradak collapsed, and probably were more than just decimated. It took less than a century before Belintar supported them over the rebellious Volsaxi. We do know that there was a sufficiently large troll and/or Kitori population in the woods inside the Crossline that they formed a major faction in the troll conflicts that followed the Dragonkill. They appear to have acted independent from the Kingdom of Night, and without direct support from the Shadow Plateau. We learn from the God Learner expedition that even Hendriki lands were much heavier forested than what is shown on Third Age maps. Speaking of the Crossline - Centaur Cross was just one of many such crosses, and only received individual importance by the rite of neighborhood performed there by Belintar and the centaur king. I wonder why you chose to use Derensev as part of the urban territory. I suspect that Derensev was the Lhankor Mhy library of least use to the God Learners since they couldn't just copy the oral tradition kept there, and that may have been a deliberate decision by those priests. The Hendriki survived the Slontan activities further south once again by decentralizing and refusing to offer cities which could easily be taken over. Their neutrality to the dragons may have been bought with the Kitori tribute to the Kingdom of Night. The Kitori are sufficiently non-human not to have been excluded by the Crossline. They may have had to don troll or dehori shape to cross it, but once north of it they may have reverted to human shape. That means they only would have had to arrange their bit of the depopulated lands with the dragonewts of the Quivin mountains in the north, the beastfolk in the west and their troll allies in the east, and that translates to Sun Dome County. Darker secrets and dragon secrets aren't mutually exclusive. The monster slain by Belintar whose body and bones form the lead hills may very well have been such a draconic cum darkness secret. The role of the Kitori in the defense of Akez Loradak against Belintar is unknown, as are their losses when the obsidian palace collapsed.

If Fazzur had succeeded to keep Hendira in power in Nochet, supply lines from the heartlands would have been rather meaningless. The Heartlands already relied on the Provinces for civilian supply, like maize. With the Tarsh river barges failing to procure grain for the Heartlands, the empire will have to struggle to keep its population fed. Imperial supply lines rely heavily on river transport. Crossing the Dragonspine means that they are cut off from that resource, and have to rely on King Sartar's network of overland routes instead, even with Duck Point as transshipping point down the Creekstream and Lyksos river. Pavis, Corflu and the Zola Fel were little more than a tactical ploy to get some sea access, and instrumental in Fazzur's capture of Karse. Karse controls the eastern transshipment of goods coming across the Pass, but has hardly any hinterland, and requires support. Nochet needs the support of rural Esrolia, but if it has that, its capacities are a multiple of those of Tarsh. Little use beyond the Dragonspine, but able to support a big fighting force down south. Tribal cultures may find charismatic leaders getting them into migration mode, basically putting them in a temporarily nomad mode. When that happens, empires fall since the border arrangements are only made for repelling raids, not invasions where every able-bodied tribesman becomes a warrior in the field. And without regard for harvests for a few years, the barbarians have the advantage over the empire which doesn't usally have the herds to catch up some of the missing harvest. For the migrating tribes, it is a win or die situation, though. But Argrath does not head a migration. If anything, he copies Arkat's model of recruiting new local forces and hanging on to those original forces of his that he manages to keep around. The Kingdom of War does resemble a Migration era force in some respects, turned up to eleven. Their logistics are quite trollish or ghoulish, provisioning themselves from the battlefields and the civilian population. And we have no idea what might arise far behind its circle of devastation. The Orlanthi are the only tribal culture in contact with empires (Lunars, Loskalm, Tanisor). Jonatela is on the verge of becoming an empire. Kralorela relies on isolation through mountains and dragon powers, and only has nomads and the ignorants as neighbors on the land. The Sea of Fog forms a pretty good border to naval invaders, although it would have been interesting if Harrek had turned north rather than south from Teshnos. Vormain has no real rivals once it gives up its isolation, until they encounter the Andins. Pamaltela is rather de-centralized, without any major empires. Maybe more populous units that Ralios in Fonrit, but split into factions much like Safelster.

Young adults get almost the beginning skills, but (regularly) no magic. Children may have a different set of abilities based on being small that they grow out of eventually. The lazy narrator might simply assign a hefty disadvantage "underage" and a linked ability "small", where the underage disadvantage recedes as initiation approaches. Any advantages from being small (nimble, whatever) disappear along with the disadvantage.

I wonder how feasible that is where the remnants of volcanic activity pierce through the sediment. The Rightarm isles cannot be just a spit of drifted sand, not the least because the dominant current runs in the false direction (east to west), and has done so in mythical times, too (at least when the currents were alive). Those sunken lands must have sunk (again) when the Seas reformed and closed the chaos rift. It is noteworthy that Kethaela was exempt from the coastal sinkings to the end of the Imperial Age that affected Old Seshnela, Slontos, and Kralorela. Vestkarthan's Shudder did affect the land, but didn't cause any sinkings. But then, if any parts of the coast between Pithdaros and Ramalia sunk, there were hardly any humans there to notice, and neither mermen. Teshnos didn't sink (significantly), either, even though no longer upheld by Tolat's Sword (since Avalor's departure in 950). Maybe the cleansing after the Machine War was good enough not to drown those coastal parts.

There are no reports of vessels sunk between Iceland and the other islands or the continent. Ships did go missing, but on a sometimes hostile coast that could as often be blamed on hostile encounters than on navigational mishap. Erik the Red's Saga reports 11 out of 25 ships (presumably knarrs similar to the Gokstad ship) lost at sea for the journey from Iceland to Greenland. This rate of loss would have been extraordinary. On the other hand, a 30 years old fisher was considered an elder in his profession along much of the Atlantic coast. The sea fed, but it also consumed. The main cause of sinkage would be extreme weather. Treacherous coasts add reefs and sandbars to the perils (getting stuck on a sandbar in a storm will likely destroy a ship due to wave action, which explains why the west coast of Juteland which doesn't have any rocky skerries or reefs is such a veritable ships' graveyard). River ports were pretty much the norm outside of the Fjords of Scandinavia. There are different degrees of river and river estuaries, however. Many "ports" did not sport a quaye and required beaching. In those places a rather flat bottom was a bonus, preventing too much of a lopside while beached.

This might be a Dara Happan influence, and the identification with Deshkorgos. Zorak Zoran is a known enemy god in many cultures - the slayer of Flamal and destroyer of Godtime Hrelar Amali, the monster god of the Hill of Gold, and bad news for mostali, too. There is no recorded hostile interaction with the Vingkotlings, though. But then both ZZ and the Vingkotlings fought just about everybody else, so why not each other? Arkat is shown bearing a third eye already as avatar of Humakt in 13G, and consistently so in Orlanthi depictions of the hero. The 13G picture makes me wonder whether he had black skin, or whether he rather had black tattoos all over his ruddy Horali or whitish mixed Westerner skin resulting in his depictions being all black. While it is likely true that the early Arkat heroquests were ignorant and ruthless, he changed his ways after giving himself the Unhealable Wound. Zolan Zubar appears only in the History of the Heortling Peoples. Troll Pak simply states that Zorak Zoran took over from his peaceful sister Xiola Umbar (at least as far as the troll representative on the council is concerned). And ZZ trolls are the best raiders against sun people, whether horse or chariot riding or not. Black Arkat worship was fairly common among the Kitori, enough so that the Heortlings who had lived through two generations without Kitori visits would make little distinction between the disciples of Ezkankekko and the worshippers and sorcerers of Arkat. (Reminds me of seven year old me, after the 1972 Olympic games, when I didn't know the differences between the phrases "Palestinian" and "terrorist".) Zubar - Subere - Zor-Bear ? Death was a power that escaped imprisonment by Subere, or that was released by Subere when the illicit visit of Eurmal and Humakt offered the opportunity. Undeath followed soon as Vivamort (aka Nontraya in Esrolian/Ernaldan myths), a former guardian of Subere's treasures, fled his post. I am not quite convinced that the deal with the Devil was necessary to make the Undead. Nontraya is a lot more flexible in his forms of Undeath than Vivamort, covering a whole sleuth of advanced D&D undead in the powers of his minions and himself. Lich, Revenant, Vampire, whatever...

No - Tusk Riders are rumored to have troll ancestry. It is undoubted that they are darkness worshippers, and as such have a higher eligibility for the Uz Ritual of Rebirth (which quite a few scholars of Glorantha regard as a huge troll scam that hasn't worked once since the Rebirth of the Seven Arkats but provides a delicious pickle from failed candidates). There is an alternative story involving Varankol the Mangler, a Living Hero of the Empire of the Wyrm's Friends (meaning a hero receiving worship, boosting himself easily past Demigod levels - Renvald Meldekbane was another such munchkin's wet dream). At one point his personal boar was slain, and he implanted the beast's tusks into his own jaw, and then passed this appearance on to his Aramite worshippers through a heroquest. At least the description in History of the Heortling Peoples p.54 would be consistent with that origin: It isn't clear whether Karastand Half-Troll (to my knowledge the only Tusk Rider ever to have claimed some troll ancestry, i.e. ancestry from Kyger Litor) really had troll ancestors. My bet would be against it, and apparently so was Kajak-ab Brain-eater's. But, to be fair, there is also a different account of the origin of the Tusk Riders, in Borderlands (and Borderlands and Beyond, p.46): There is a problem with this, however. The Aramites are humans at the dawn, no strange man-troll half-breeds. (This goes back to Wyrm's Footnotes 3, which also has the Ivory Plinth poem which was reproduced in Wyrm's Footprints.) And the same source paddles back a bit later on in the bestiary entry for the Tusk Riders (p.55): You may of course stick to the page 46 description as your canon, but the Guide indicates otherwise, confirming the version of Wyrm's Footnotes 3 (while re-assigning Aram's "EWF" affiliation to the World Council of Friends).

Et tu, Brute? If the trolls had any aspiration to enter Dorastor, they could have done so at any time since before the Dawn. The impenetrable range of the Rockwood Mountains was (and remains) quite penetrable for the Halikiv trolls, and unlike the Arstola forest south of the Mislari mountains, there is no densely settled enemy territory north of the Rockwoods. Neither are there big hindrances between the Yolp troll stronglands and Dorastor. This makes me doubt any trollish presence near the Cleft of Dorasta prior to Arkat's invasion. The original settlers were Heortlings, some of whom underwent a strange Unity interbreeding program, but documented only with the foes of uzkind (at least prior to Gwalinkus' Gold Wheel Dancer marriage). And could we please reserve ZZ for Zorak Zoran, the burnt three-eyed brother of Xiola Umbar and imprisoner of Lodril? Apart from his third eye (which might be an indication of his unwilling and hurtful illumination upon his contact with yet unborn Aether), Zorak Zoran is the prototype of the Dark Troll - marred by too close contact with fire. After Bijiif Yelm invaded Wonderhome, many of his victims were diminished to Zorak Zoran's kind rather than remaining the proud Uzuz of Kyger Litor. The Hellmother extended her motherhood to her burnt mutant offspring, and sort of adopted Zorak Zoran like a stepson. More robust bones, stronger muscular attachments? The Neanderthals have been much maligned since their discovery and the insight that they were cavemen, leading to the ape-like images of them that may still be found in some dustier museums of Natural History. Recent studies showed that the earliest cave paintings in Europe were made before the arrival of the African cousins (a novel method that can date extremely thin chalk deposits which covered the cave paint). Argan Argar never was a troll, and while his son by Esrola could prove to be like a troll, it was just one of three documented shapes Ezkankekko (and his disciples) could take. The Three Curious Spirits myth in Uz Lore, while highly anachronistic with the presence of Argan Argar prior to the birth of his grandfather (the Sky), does create the Hurt Troll (uzko) prototype. Unless it is a projection of the fact of the burnt trolls back into the blissful Darkness of their origins. XU is said to have taken "Friendship from afar" from her encounter in the Three Curious Spirits myth. A form of enlightenment which made her lessen the pain of Bijiif in Hell. Aram ya Udram aka Yu-Adariam (in older sources, but with a delightful dose of the Sun God's first name portion in it, compare Yu-Kargzant or YuEhilm with the silent u and the silent hi) was in all likelihood a Manirian pig Orlanthi and kin of the Harandings who followed Gouger after that pig had been released by a vengeful earth mother. (The sources never explicitely blame Ernalda, so it may have been one of her sisters, too.) The westernmost troll population in Glorantha are the Uzhim and Boztakang's queendom under the Glacier. Prior to the settlement of Guhan under the Dark Empire, the westernmost uz populations south of the Glacier were Halikiv and Yolp. (And possibly a Fronelan population from which Xem came, but that could have been a group of migrants from Boztakang's trolls). The rest of the west were nasty blue-skinne Helerings, nasty Greatwood in league with aldryami and even nastier sorcerers in league with mostali. Orlanth does encounter a troll army in Ralios which he aids against the lesser Kajabori. (One of only three reported fights between Orlanth and Chaos, including the defeat at Stormbreak and the victory over Sky Terror. Ironically, Orlanth failed to save the Surface World, but did save the celestial sphere from Chaos - a deed which remains unacknowledged among the Sky worshippers.) There are three groups of trolls in Pamaltela, two clinging to the cold mountains separating the Veldt from the north, and Moorgarkis right in the jungle. I would assume that the two mountain populations parted way from Moorgarki before her encounter with Pamalt, and that she led her cold-less followers back north into the jungle. The Jrustela population was founded in the Modern Age, but may have found some debris from the mythical Spike troll civilization of the Storm Age - after all Jrustela is where much of the debris from the collapsing Spike came to rest. There appears to be no contact between Kyger Litor's Hellspawn and the Hellspawn of Sortum, except in Ignorance. The Shadzoring Hellspawn and Kyger Litor's Hellspawn did have contact in Genertela, and from the description of Hellgate and the Characteristics of the Great Darkness in the Mythic Maps section of the Guide (p.695) it looks like the Shadzorings managed to lord over the uz when they encountered one another. It is never quite clear whether Hellspawn is chaotic or not. Many of the Adpara peoples in the East are chaotic, or use Chaos as allies. The Shadzorings don't appear hell-bent to destroy Chaos, although Shargash has a special hatred for the Lunar chaos ties. (Or maybe just her dalliance with the Underworld presence of Umath.) Tolat on the other hand was allied to the Blue Moon before the Artmali allied with Chaos. The Demon Horses of Ethilrist and his Hound also tread a thin line between Hellspawn and Chaotic Hellspawn, apparently on the non-Chaotic side. (At least there are no reports of Storm Bull bands finding their doom storming against Muse Roost.) The Black Cloak goblins are another type of Hellspawn, with only a temporary presence on the surface. And I wonder whether the Deshkorgos demon race from the last scenario in the Hero Wars Narrator's Book still are remotely canonical.

Ah. The Kickstarter I missed, and a way too costly failure of my central heating last month which prevented me from acquiring those pdfs yet. As much as I live and breathe Glorantha, I still prioritize eating regularly over getting those pdfs. I suppose that this "became a woman" woud have followed his giving up the post of warlord and the ability to incarnate Zolan Zubar. I still suspect that the Varzor Kitor mentioned in the text above is a Gray Age or even Chaos Age character who may have been reborn into the Shadzoring wars. Possibly a follower of Queen Norinel.

There isn't much more to tell about him than is in King of Sartar. Now, being Vamargic is a different issue - a looming 2 m person with grey face paint wearing a necklace of ping pong balls with pupils and a deep growl do a lot to intimidate people. Never mind that I remained quite the talkative person furthering the aims of the Kingdom of Night (alas somewhat better than my own ones - the impromptu Hill of Gold quest was turned into a lottery rather than a series of six exchanges, so I didn't get the fire rune I meant to get out of that, a bit of a shame). I seriously doubt that the Arkati would meddle that way - they set themselves up as guardians against indiscriminate meddling. I just don't see the happily married one half human one quarter dwarf one quarter elf Gwalynkus take a troll mistress besides his trophy wife from the nearly extinct Gold Wheel Dancers. And I admire his grandmother managing to get a dwarf to reproduce... Varzor Kitor could also be a title (warlord of the Kitori) rather than a single person. It is pretty clear that the individual who became the warlord was born in the first century, otherwise his extraordinary age would have been mentioned like it was for Aram ya Udram. I see great evidence that the lead-masked, cloak-wearing spearmen of Ezkankekko were on and about possibly even prior to I Fought We Won, braving the terrors of the Chaos Age keeping the precious few shards of life as it was known earlier in contact and healthier than they could have been on their own. The conflict with the Shadzorings could be part of that. Hellspawn versus Hellspawn, but one backed by Unity while the other still on a rampage of hatred. It is interesting that the inhabitants of Alkoth are consistently described as the same Shadzorings that had terrorized central Genertela since before the Chaos Age. Or a Sairdite connection. Prior to the Dawn, the Kitori messengers were active all over that Dawn Sites map, and so were the Shadzorings in the northern half. Does he? Palangio is from Rinliddi, and he manifests Daysenerus, a fragment or son of Antirius. Antirius and Alkoth don't exactly look back on a flawless partnership. In fact I suspect that Shadzor was the Cruel God at Manarlarvus' fateful Hill of Gold expedition. No - if he was indeed a disciple of the Only Old One, he could choose to appear as troll or dehori rather than as man. And if he wore the lead mask and the cloak of his office, it would be hard to tell which shape he wore, surrounded by the darkness of his incarnated deity. Where do you get the "transforming himself into a woman" from? Just another thing to hate and destroy, really. It might be similar to the uz and their tolerance of the chaos-polluted cave trolls. I am wondering if the Shadzorings are sort of an anti-parallel to the Kitori. Hellspawn demons who supposedly have a demonic appearance, but who may appear human for all purposes. Eusibus aka Emperor Upon Hilltops would have to be a Shadzoring, yet not a single mention about deviant looks or behavior is made in the Dara Happan chronicles. As a son of Shargash he probably was nobility among the Shadzorings. We never get any description of the Shadzoring appearance. I would guess that they have divine Dara Happan ancestry from Alkor when he merged with an Underworld entity that afterwards dismembered Umath, but that's pet theory territory and likely to summon the wrath of other scholars. After Eusibus submits to Khordavu, there are apparently no more sightings of Shadzorings outside the green walls of Hellgate. Plentonius maddeningly fails to mention the Battle of Argentium Thri'ile, except as part of Khordavu ordering the world. Khordavu (in Raibanth) summoned the armies of the horse nomads and the storm rebels and their monster allies to fight each other near Alkoth, the way Plentonius describes these things. It is clear that urban Dara Happa remained uninvolved in that conflict. It is not clear whether the horse warlord army was led by an emperor, as the last Jenarong emperor Kills for Life is described as killed when he confronted the Ten Princes and their conducting the imperial rites, and not in battle against the southern army. Plentonius describes the campaign of the ten princes as if they had big armies and were able to fight prolonged battles. From reading the History of the Heortling Peoples, I get the impression that the fifty years Siege of Alkoth meant that there was a constant watch on the lands surrounding the city. It isn't clear whether the Council army devastated the rice paddies. They were unable to stop the river access to the city. The struggle between Khordavu and Eusibus for the right to wear the Ten Accoutrements of the Emperor and the noteworthy tilting of the Green Wall could not have happened without being observed by the Council forces. The fact that Eusibus could claim the title of the Emperor using the Ovosto rites when there still were horse warlords about reinforcing the Jenarong rites indicates that the struggle against the council had weakened the horse warlords, and that that also allowed the Ten Princes to gather some fighting force and campaign for their Accoutrements. Eusibus is the only emperor who came from Alkoth, and thus the only Shadzoring emperor within history (until the Hero Wars). Plentonius doesn't exactly name the factions or tribes among the horse warlords, but he does trace different lineages, including a Rinliddi one started with Kerunebbe (by his name a horse warlord), but succeeded by a son and a grandson bearing names starting with Kestin, in the ancient Rinliddi/Kestinliddi tradition which dates back to the Anaxial dynasty or even further. A similar "going native" effect can be seen with the Bull Shahs who took the Ten Tests just before the Rinliddi rebellion which brought out the Crimson Bat and a living goddess. Peter Metcalfe gives an interesting description for Dawn Age Alkoth in the Wikia: http://glorantha.wikia.com/wiki/Shadzoring So what about Eusibus? The Wikia lists him under the category "Shadzoring Emperors". How do the Shadzorings disappear from outside of the Green City Wall? Judging from the Wikia entries, Peter appears to agree that there are still a lot of uncertainties in the events that led up to the Battle of Argentium Thri'ile and the battle itself. And IMO the Shadzorings and their fate are a big part of that uncertainty. One might indeed theorize that Shargash was an undead when he fought and dismembered Umath. I am not quite convinced that the demon which rose from the dust next to Umath really was the original planetary son of the south. In many ways, Zolan Zubar embodies the virtues of Humakt. (Still wondering about that "curses sent by women" thing in the Kolating description of the spirit friend from Below...)

An interesting take on the dark men. All of that from the Bear Paw? The Sky Bear is the moving constellation also known as Orlanth's Ring. The Entekosiad has a somewhat cryptic mention of Sedenya following the Spiral Path, too. An alternative theory about the Sky Bear follows below. According to Jar-eel's teachings of Liberation to Aelwrin, the Red Goddess (as Verithurusa) herself was an active part of the killing or rather dismembering of Yelm. (The Dara Happans maintain that it was Murharzarm, the Divine Emperor, who was slain by Rebellus Terminus, not Yelm himself. And the Orlanthi agree that their god slew the Evil Emperor.) Rufelza's victory over the Sky Bear is a big thing, but then there is a story how Verithurusa descended into the Underworld upon her tumbling encounter with Umath, and mated with a god newly arrived there (Umath?). From The Life of Sedenya: It is quite possibly a "I am your mother, Luke" moment. http://darthsanddroids.net/episodes/1152.html This is where I sort of stomp a foot and say no. And - as a rule - the northern tribes are the Winter Tribes, with the Jorganostelli sort of breaking the pattern. The northernmost Winter Vingkotlings were the Berennethtelli - notorious cat people. If you look at the Dawn Settlement map in the Guide, you will see that the bear-worshipping Odaylings are centered around Cafol, quite a distance from the former Vingkotling, then Heortling tribes. You can make a very small point about the arrow people of Berthestead, an offshoot of the Jorganostelli whose dedication to archery leads them to worship of Odayla. Or rather: the Kitori became the adopted children of the Only Old One (his son having been slain by Eurmal during the Lightbringers' Quest), turning them into something more than just humans (or trolls, or dehori) and able to take the body shape of any of these three. For the early Second Age, the History of the Heortling Peoples confuses this Kitori ability with Arkat's rebirth as a troll, e.g. for Daramhy. While the Kitori (the Only Old One-enabled shapeshifters) remained true to their allegiance to Arkat and his teachings of sorcery, and could reasonable be included under the term of the Arkatings, the troll shape-shifting power that Daramhy used in his personal feud against other Kitori shadowlords did not originate from Arkat. To my knowledge, Arkat never was taught by the Only Old One. Ezkankekko aka Kimantor was a great defender against Chaos, but only a defender, never the attacker Arkat needed to be. Arkat's Command - to re-introduce the ancient Kitori tribute - basically only undid its suspension under Palangio's occupation of Maniria (and no doubt claiming at least as much as taxation for the Bright Empire). Arkat did not institute a new tribute, he only re-instituted the mutual exchange agreements that created the Silver Age and the Unity Council. But with two generations under the fists of Palangio and Lokamayadon, many Heortlings had forgotten that exchange, and the benefits that that had brought. They had shaken off Palangio's yoke, and claimed that result for their own effort, disregarding the crucial aid the Only Old One and Dagori Inkarth had given them, or the fact that they had gone on to harrass Dara Happa while Arkat and his troll allies bore the brunt of the Chaos Fighting marching on Dorastor. There is nothing to support a further breeding of Gwalynkus producing offspring with other Elder Races than the Gold Wheel Dancer he married. That's an unexpected leap into the direction of the Tusk Riders (who IMO really are an admixture of boars to the humans, rather than trolls - check a boar skull next to your two examples). The Kitori followed the superhero trope of never revealing their true identities while on duty, wearing a lead face mask (like the Kimantoring guards of Nochet), a gray goose-feather cloak, and a spear as insignia of their office, regardless whether they chose to take human, troll or dehori shape. (The dehori shape can of course de-materialize, dropping those insignia for that time.) To my knowledge, they never displayed any hybrid body-shape (unless you count the troll shape as a hybrid of human and dehori). The shape you describe is paralleled only in the hybrid shape the Telmori werewolves were gifted by Nysalor and cursed to take on wilddays by Talor. That is a modification of wolf-walking, and so your shape might be a modification of bear-walking. The Kitori originated in the neighborhood of Shadow Plateau in the Gray Age, with neighborhood possibly extending far enough to include Harandings and Aramites. Near Dorastor stretches things a bit. They were the messengers who brought news from other groups of the Unity forces, brought some sustenance from others, and collected some to distribute elsewhere. This was the Shadow Tribute, and it has all the trappings of a scheme to avoid malnutrition by exchanging products with other groups that couldn't be grown locally. These messengers appeared in Kimantoring uniform, as described above. On their travels, they braved the chasms in reality and the unspeakable things that might have emanated from those while the Ritual of the Net was under way in the Underworld. Those chasms slowly closed up, but the Kitori messengers were heroquesters in a broken world when the shadow tribute started, gifted with the powers of Ezkankekko to be able to make it through those dangers. And, while mostly successful, we must assume that there were parties of Kitori who did not make it through to the groups under their care, and it is entirely possible that groups cut off by the failure of a Kitori tribute party succumbed to the depredations of the remainders of the Chaos Age and perished. I wonder whether this time is available for heroquesting. This post-apocalyptic Dark, then Gray, should be worth a rpg of its own, or at least a setting book for one or more of the three Gloranthan games. Tribal deity probably is a better description than just a wyter, but the origin might go back to that. Varzor Kitor's group evidently found or inherited a way to feed Zolan Zubar, and might even have loved him, but they were in all likelihood not of Vingkotling descent. My guess is that they stemmed from the same non-Vingkotling population as the Aramites and the Harandings, worshippers of Darkness, Earth and Storm. The Vingkotlings included many of the older, indigenous groups in their tribes and clans, which is alluded to in the clan questionnaire where names that don't have much meaning or story behind them (yet, or rather any more) are offered for inclusion in the clan, and where the decision is made how to include them (as carls, cottars, or thralls). The Kodigvari tried to swallow the biggest lump, but were overturned and dissolved instead. Both Aramites and Harandings survived apart. The Kitori joined Akez Loradak, the Obsidian Palace and might be subsumed under the "approximately 6,000 trolls", where it is said a sentence earlier "The inhabitants were mainly trolls" clearly suggesting that there were others, too. The Kitori tribe grew through adoption and recruitment. There were Heortlings among the Kitori, like Daramhy, who turned upon the Kitori leadership when they didn't support him in his feud against another of the Kitori. And in a larger sense, all the humans who received the shelter, provision and protection of the Kingdom of Night would be Kitori, but that doesn't address the warlord and shape-shifter discussion we are having right now. There is some confusion about that. For a while, there was a thesis that some darkness-worshipping humans stepped in to keep the presence of all elements in balance. The Kitori in the sense of the messengers were active much earlier. It is quite possible that the majority of the earliest converts to the Kitori state were trolls from Akez Loradak, but I am quite convinced that there were humans among Ezkankekko's recruits from the beginning. He might have started his adoption of others as soon as he overcame his grief about his blood lineage being cut down by Eurmal. That son might have been the (or a) child of Norinel, destined to sire a dynasty and lineage of great Shadowland leaders. According to the Nochet history, Akez Loradak was home to about 3,000 humans during the Greater Darkness, but they returned to Nochet in the Silver Age. They may have left a part of their population behind. The Nochet refugees would have been mostly Earth worshippers, but some Vingkotling descendants and some fisherfolk may have joined in in that protection, and possibly other indigenous Nochet traditions, too. While some families of Nochet found refuge in the Blackmaw, other Darkness-friendly ones may have joined Kimantor and Norinel on their move to Akez Loradak. Or it might be due to a much smaller number of trollkin among the Kitori - it is even possible that the trollkin they have were purchased from the Shadow Plateau population. Kitori breed true in their shapes when mating with a member of the species of that shape, but the offspring might lose the connection to Kyger Litor (shifting to Ezkankekko instead), which might be worse to the trolls than having trollkin offspring who at least maintain that Kyger Litor connection (as do cave trolls). Something like that, or an adoption into the ranks of the Kitori, might have been the secret behind Vamargic Eye-Necklace's great competence for a Great Troll. But then deviant doesn't begin to describe Vamargic... (I played him in a freeform, so he has grown on me.) From the presence of the Ergeshi in Sun Dome County we know that the full Kitori keep mates and offspring who are only part-way into their secrets. The Ergeshi are the human-shape kin, while the trolls of Troll Wood are the troll-shape kin. It is quite likely that there are Dehori-shape kin in the troll woods, too, and some of them might have taken residence in the trees (or rather, the shadows of these trees), making them immune to their troll kin (two words intended). That is possible. There might have been such a trend already since the second century, though, when the Unity Council became more warlike upon contact with the Horse Warlords. Their war took almost 100 years until the Battle of Argentium Thri'ile, only to exchange one fire tribe nuisance with another one. Um, no? You don't bring Hell Darkness to fight the sun unless you intend to lose. The Second Council learned that the hard way, and it took Galanini and Praxian riders to counter the Horse Warlords successfully at Argentium Thri'ile. The Battle of Night and Day continued that trend. Sending the Storm Worshippers to deal with the Sun Worshippers was how to bring that interference down. The foes waiting for Arkat's host were Chaos and the non-Fire brightness of Illumination. Zolan Zubar's six foes don't include Chaos directly, but address many of the secondary horrors presented in Cults of Terror. (Curses sent by women is an interesting sixth foe here...) The Dara Happan Hill of Gold monikers of the Cruel God and the Selfish God may extend to other participants, including Shargash instead of ZZ. And instead of Inora, Sedenya might crop up with her power of Reflection. That quest is loaded with tons of weird possible associations. Basically, this is the relationship King Heort had with Zolan Zubar. I had a closer look at bear skull anatomy when discussing Kalin's choices for the Harrek depiction in Prince of Sartar, and again for Eric Vanel's Harrek and Jar-eel statue project. A major difference between the troll skull and the bear skull is the attachment of the vertebra. The bear neck comes in from behind, whereas the troll neck comes in from below (allowing the much enlarged brain case). The dentition should have similarities - both are opportunist omnivores, in case of the trolls extending even to lignin plant matter and minerals. The tusks may be mainly for digging, as with the Aardwolf dentition (which I found under the insectivore entry in wikipedia, insects being the staple diet for the majority of the uz).

In a reply to this EnWorld article a user with a history of mental health issues in the family addressed how making the corruption from exposure to the horrors of the Great Old Ones and their minions is quite different from what the modern view of mental health issues brings, and sort of asks for a better way to phrase the consequences of these experiences. Playing in the 1920ies, the terminology used in the game is time-appropriate, but for a modern game of Cthulhu some different vocabulary might be appreciated:

Plenty. Prior to engine-powered sailing, this shape appears in a number of evolution of marine vessels, like when the landlubber carpenters of the Hanseatic Cities looked at the concept of the nordic knorr merchant ship and started with a clinker built and keeled ship using techniques they knew from tiling roofs. Later designs also had flat bottomed ships of greater tonnage. Flat-bottomed ships turn up where tides and falling dry are a common occurrance, or when you have to pass sand bars. They tend to be harder to keep on course, but there are numerous cases of side swords added to such constructions to regain the advantage a keel line offers. This kind of hull design can also evolve from river barges that need to deal with sand bars. There is flat bottomed as in "has a keel but extends horizontally from it for much of its belly", and there is flat bottomed as in "you start with a flat raft and add walls to it." I tend to expect the Esrolian merchantman to be of the keeled variety (and Jeff's example picture just proved that). Even though living in Esrolia, most of the shipbuilders there are of fisherfolk (i.e. Pelaskite) ethnicity, and heirs of the boat building technology that also resulted in the galleys which were copied by the Quinpolic League. I am a bit curious how this quite divergent design was made to be acceptable using the Dormal rites - I think the Dormal exploratory ship was a slightly tubby keeled ship mainly for sailing, with oars only as auxiliary means of propulsion (much like the nordic knarr) and not the main mode. But then the Holy Country has access to some of the most accomplished magical traditions able to deal with the seas, so that development may not have taken them more than a few years.

IMO or IMG there are several types of Esrolian commercial ships. It starts with Dormal's all-purpose exploration ships that are used in naval battle against the Alatan pirates using the same type of ship, with a loss for the Kethaelans away from their merman support. Sailed, with auxiliar ores. Soon afterwards, dedicated grain barges with greater cargo capacity and less suitability for naval conflict re-appear. These tubby sailing vessels soon are found along the southern coast of Genertela, trafficking between Melib and Noloswal. Either type will take the eastern route that bypasses Corflu. I am not quite sure how well the Corflu port is suited for the bigger grain barges. A third type will be a cross-purposed oared galley for express deliveries, basically a warship used for transport of messages, low volume wares and important people.

Yeah. Isn't it typical that you aren't told about this upon entry into the city?

While Orlanth had plenty foes, most of those he vanquished beyond maintaining a culture that produces artistic representations. The Kralori and other easterners don't differentiate much between Orlanth and other foes from the west. The Dara Happans recognize him as a foe, and reference him by a number of names and representations - especially Plentonius, whose research mostly was done prior to extended contact between Dara Happa and the Theyalans other than battles with the horse warlords. Harald Smith aka @jajagappa had a nice downsized version of Orlanth in his Imther mythology published in New Lolon Gospel - non-canonical, but highly enlightening nonetheless. Quite often, the enemy storm god is known by a different name, and ends up with a different subsequent myth. How much Orlanth is in Aerlit, and vice versa? What about Kahar, the storm god ancestor of the Zabdamar, or Desero in Pamaltela? The various herding tribes that descended on Fronela, Peloria and Pelanda? How much did the Lightbringers "re-unite" such deities, how much did Harmast, how much did the God Learners? The storm god leadership role doesn't automatically mean that Orlanth was in charge. For many activities, Vadrus was the warleader of Storm, and Umath himself liked a good shake-up of others, too. "Violence is always an option" reaches a long way back. And I wouldn't be surprised if some of the enemies of the EWF continue to picture Orlanth as a dragon.

Pavis and Big Rubble p. 110, the Lunar Guard at the Northern Gate (or if you use the boxed set, in the players' guide to the city, Welcome to the City. HQ Pavis p. 283 expands the original text by some more narrative and drops the list of prohibited items for a stricter "weapons only for registered weapon-masters" rule. The bold text (my emphasis) was inserted in the dialogue bit from the Pavis Box. No fiddling around with peace bands and similar stuff as per the RQ2 supplement and its table, just a plain "no weapons" policy. (You can almost hear the NRA protests...) So basically adventurers on the way to the Rubble will have to use a carry-bag or similar to bring their armament to the city limits where they may don them under the eyes of the Lunar guards. And Pavis is a place that welcomes adventurers (or at least their money, having made an industry out of the Rubble expeditions), unlike most other places. All of this is the consequence of Lunar occupation, of course, and it is quite possible that the Sartarite city laws (which used to apply to New Pavis as well) were a lot more redneck and laissez-faire in their stance towards weapons. (Lawspeakers may have been among the loudest dissatisfied voices, with their chance to participate in a weregeld settlement so sadly diminished.) I sort of wonder how normal the presence of a bored spear-and-shield wielding guard at ornamental positions will be both under Lunar and under Sartarite regimes. Both chiefs and officers impress by the number and equipment of their bodyguards, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there are living statues under arms distributed all over the place. Gate guards yes, at some state of readiness, but guards flanking the entrances to official buildings?

Campaigning in Fire Season means that the only recent harvest will be hay. Grain reserves in the villages will be low, but there will be fresh vegetables and not quite ripe grain on the stalks, providing decent fodder if harvested prematurely, but miserable food. If the foragers have access to agricultural spells like Sunripen that might help them a lot. That would mean campaigning in Earth Season, meaning you need a standing army uninvolved in agricultural activities (other than foraging). This is the downside to "every man a warrior" in chiefdom societies, but much less of a problem for societies that have standing armies like the Lunars or the West. True. They will also hide their able-bodied young folk to avoid them being press-ganged into auxiliaries or as servants or stress relief company to the warriors. To little avail, really, because the best foragers are those who come from agricultural places like this and who have seen foraging from the other side. Smaller scale foraging is done by the servants of the warriors on a daily level. That's part of camp life.

The Egyptian campaigns in northern Canaan were grounded in well-prepared logistics, too, up to and including preparing ships for overland transport so that the Euphrates could be crossed at will. Likewise the great Persian advance on Greece under Xerxes was a masterpiece of logistics. Nevertheless, the presence of a huge army is always going to cost much of the present harvest and of the herds remaining within easy reach, regardless how good the logistics are. The devastations left by the Cimbri and Teutones were nothing permanent, but may have threatened or destroyed the existence of local farmers. But that's a risk that comes with the occupation, really.

They use coins, so of course they are way more advanced than any earth bronze age arrangement. But I don't think we should underestimate the bronze age and "barbarian" iron age ability to organize huge troop movements. The Migration Age is full of entire tribes taking to a migratory form, and maintaining that _in force_ for years. Cimbri and Teutons were on the march for years, giving Marius time to reform the legions and train them up to a standard to be able to stand through their onslaught and cause damage. The migration of the Goths (which included taking Rome by force) was likewise a mobile force maintained for years. Caesar's report on the attempted Helvetii migration lingers at their thorough preparations, giving up their sedentary achievements and producing a train that easily had to be as efficient as Caesar's own. Rather than admiring the Romans, I think we should look at Alexander the Great or Hannibal's achievements (and failures). I don't really see the Gloranthan armies as following the Marian reforms to the military, but closer to the older form of hoplites being accompanied by servants or slaves, doubling the head-count of such a unit with non- or semi-combatants (those servants often doubled as skirmishers in the early phases of a battle if free men). The existence of Angus Farquilis as Master of Wagons indicates that the Lunars do indeed recognize logistics as a key to operating in a country without leaving it devastated (as most of my barbarian examples apparently did, and as did military forces as late as the 30 years war armies). Another unexpected place to find masters of logistics are the Plains of Prax which require herds to support significant military forces. If you look more closely, that goes for the Independents (who get to "cheat" in the Nomad Gods boardgame), too.

I was looking for an orthodox Malkioni practice (not that I don't quite consider the Rokari orthodox) that mirrors some form of ancestor contact and learning from ancestors. The only such hint in the Guide is The Families Book, one of the Writings of Zzabur. The Brithini and Rokari doctrine of dissolution of the self after Death is of course some strong contra-indication for there being spirits/souls/mind expressions available to contact through an Axis Mundi-like ritual. In 2013, Jeff mentioned in an exchange with Jon Quaife that the Malkioni do believe in the journey to the Underworld and meeting the Judge of the Dead. http://www.glorantha.com/docs/malkioni-culture/ But I notice that most Malkioni sorcery schools are extremely ignorant of the underworlds, as their magic doesn't work there as expected. There used to be one school or order specialized in exploring the underworld and using its magic, but I cannot find it right now. Stygians strong in Darkness may have a different relation to sorcery in the Underworld. That may be part of what scares the Rokari and what scared the Makanists. But mostly I mention this weakness in dealing with the Underworld as a reason why the sorcerers aren't well-versed with ancestor worship. (Their Resurrection ritual is going to be interesting in this regard...) One aspect that triggers my academic curiosity is the passage of time in the Underworld. The Brithini and Rokari agree that the soul dissipates once it leaves the Middle World, and surely it will deteriorate. But if time doesn't quite apply to the Underworld, does that mean that basically all souls of those who died are still "in contact range" once they have encountered the Judge of the Dead? And is the Judge of the Dead for the Malkioni their Fifth Action Founder?

Hippocrates appears to be sufficiently grounded as a real person in a time when the gods were seen as more remote, but he was given a divine descendance from Asclepios/Aesculap, the divine healer, with about ten generations distance. Hrestol and Fenela don't appear to have had a shrine or similar to their mother, and there is no burial site mentioned. In a way, a burial site acts as a shrine to the ancestors buried in that place, a place for veneration (or sacrifice of flowers or similar). A necropolis like the Antones Estates of Nochet is powerful.

If you have a powerful female-descent lineage, the descendants can spread over well over a dozen clans in multiple tribes within the third generation in a patrilocal society like the majority of the Quivini. There is some back and forth, so a great-granddaughter has some likelihood to appear in the same clan as the ancestress (that's the Triaty sequence), but generally the direct female lineage will be extended over many clans. The more magically powerful a lineage is, the greater the probability that these women will be married to unusual clans to cement a peace. As to Onelisin's marriage, she was named Cat-Witch. That indicates the morals of a Yinkini, and frankly makes it surprising if her three daughters (likely born over the course of five years or so) all have the same father. That man would have to offer quite some status and yet considerable tolerance. The Ostling Four-Wolf incident reads as if Onelisin and her daughters chanced upon the Telmori king in an isolated location, away from most other human habitation. This could be a place where Onelisin retreated to practice herbal lore and similar, or it could indicate that her relationship with her husband's clan had soured, and that she did live away from its center although still somewhere on the tula. (Her having her three daughters with her indicates that she hasn't been divorced out of the clan.) The alternative would be that Onelisin was powerful and prestigious enough to be able to demand matrilocal marriage, leaving the offspring with her rather than with the father's clan. The problem I see here is that apart from the royal dynasty, she has no clan. On the other hand, if she still resided in Boldhome, there would have been opportunity to interact with the wolf-men, and the scene with the wounded wolf-king could move from a back in the woods encounter to an obscure wing of the royal palace. But that's not the vibe I get from the story.