Joerg

Campaigning in Fire Season means that the only recent harvest will be hay. Grain reserves in the villages will be low, but there will be fresh vegetables and not quite ripe grain on the stalks, providing decent fodder if harvested prematurely, but miserable food. If the foragers have access to agricultural spells like Sunripen that might help them a lot. That would mean campaigning in Earth Season, meaning you need a standing army uninvolved in agricultural activities (other than foraging). This is the downside to "every man a warrior" in chiefdom societies, but much less of a problem for societies that have standing armies like the Lunars or the West. True. They will also hide their able-bodied young folk to avoid them being press-ganged into auxiliaries or as servants or stress relief company to the warriors. To little avail, really, because the best foragers are those who come from agricultural places like this and who have seen foraging from the other side. Smaller scale foraging is done by the servants of the warriors on a daily level. That's part of camp life.

The Egyptian campaigns in northern Canaan were grounded in well-prepared logistics, too, up to and including preparing ships for overland transport so that the Euphrates could be crossed at will. Likewise the great Persian advance on Greece under Xerxes was a masterpiece of logistics. Nevertheless, the presence of a huge army is always going to cost much of the present harvest and of the herds remaining within easy reach, regardless how good the logistics are. The devastations left by the Cimbri and Teutones were nothing permanent, but may have threatened or destroyed the existence of local farmers. But that's a risk that comes with the occupation, really.

They use coins, so of course they are way more advanced than any earth bronze age arrangement. But I don't think we should underestimate the bronze age and "barbarian" iron age ability to organize huge troop movements. The Migration Age is full of entire tribes taking to a migratory form, and maintaining that _in force_ for years. Cimbri and Teutons were on the march for years, giving Marius time to reform the legions and train them up to a standard to be able to stand through their onslaught and cause damage. The migration of the Goths (which included taking Rome by force) was likewise a mobile force maintained for years. Caesar's report on the attempted Helvetii migration lingers at their thorough preparations, giving up their sedentary achievements and producing a train that easily had to be as efficient as Caesar's own. Rather than admiring the Romans, I think we should look at Alexander the Great or Hannibal's achievements (and failures). I don't really see the Gloranthan armies as following the Marian reforms to the military, but closer to the older form of hoplites being accompanied by servants or slaves, doubling the head-count of such a unit with non- or semi-combatants (those servants often doubled as skirmishers in the early phases of a battle if free men). The existence of Angus Farquilis as Master of Wagons indicates that the Lunars do indeed recognize logistics as a key to operating in a country without leaving it devastated (as most of my barbarian examples apparently did, and as did military forces as late as the 30 years war armies). Another unexpected place to find masters of logistics are the Plains of Prax which require herds to support significant military forces. If you look more closely, that goes for the Independents (who get to "cheat" in the Nomad Gods boardgame), too.

I was looking for an orthodox Malkioni practice (not that I don't quite consider the Rokari orthodox) that mirrors some form of ancestor contact and learning from ancestors. The only such hint in the Guide is The Families Book, one of the Writings of Zzabur. The Brithini and Rokari doctrine of dissolution of the self after Death is of course some strong contra-indication for there being spirits/souls/mind expressions available to contact through an Axis Mundi-like ritual. In 2013, Jeff mentioned in an exchange with Jon Quaife that the Malkioni do believe in the journey to the Underworld and meeting the Judge of the Dead. http://www.glorantha.com/docs/malkioni-culture/ But I notice that most Malkioni sorcery schools are extremely ignorant of the underworlds, as their magic doesn't work there as expected. There used to be one school or order specialized in exploring the underworld and using its magic, but I cannot find it right now. Stygians strong in Darkness may have a different relation to sorcery in the Underworld. That may be part of what scares the Rokari and what scared the Makanists. But mostly I mention this weakness in dealing with the Underworld as a reason why the sorcerers aren't well-versed with ancestor worship. (Their Resurrection ritual is going to be interesting in this regard...) One aspect that triggers my academic curiosity is the passage of time in the Underworld. The Brithini and Rokari agree that the soul dissipates once it leaves the Middle World, and surely it will deteriorate. But if time doesn't quite apply to the Underworld, does that mean that basically all souls of those who died are still "in contact range" once they have encountered the Judge of the Dead? And is the Judge of the Dead for the Malkioni their Fifth Action Founder?

Hippocrates appears to be sufficiently grounded as a real person in a time when the gods were seen as more remote, but he was given a divine descendance from Asclepios/Aesculap, the divine healer, with about ten generations distance. Hrestol and Fenela don't appear to have had a shrine or similar to their mother, and there is no burial site mentioned. In a way, a burial site acts as a shrine to the ancestors buried in that place, a place for veneration (or sacrifice of flowers or similar). A necropolis like the Antones Estates of Nochet is powerful.

If you have a powerful female-descent lineage, the descendants can spread over well over a dozen clans in multiple tribes within the third generation in a patrilocal society like the majority of the Quivini. There is some back and forth, so a great-granddaughter has some likelihood to appear in the same clan as the ancestress (that's the Triaty sequence), but generally the direct female lineage will be extended over many clans. The more magically powerful a lineage is, the greater the probability that these women will be married to unusual clans to cement a peace. As to Onelisin's marriage, she was named Cat-Witch. That indicates the morals of a Yinkini, and frankly makes it surprising if her three daughters (likely born over the course of five years or so) all have the same father. That man would have to offer quite some status and yet considerable tolerance. The Ostling Four-Wolf incident reads as if Onelisin and her daughters chanced upon the Telmori king in an isolated location, away from most other human habitation. This could be a place where Onelisin retreated to practice herbal lore and similar, or it could indicate that her relationship with her husband's clan had soured, and that she did live away from its center although still somewhere on the tula. (Her having her three daughters with her indicates that she hasn't been divorced out of the clan.) The alternative would be that Onelisin was powerful and prestigious enough to be able to demand matrilocal marriage, leaving the offspring with her rather than with the father's clan. The problem I see here is that apart from the royal dynasty, she has no clan. On the other hand, if she still resided in Boldhome, there would have been opportunity to interact with the wolf-men, and the scene with the wounded wolf-king could move from a back in the woods encounter to an obscure wing of the royal palace. But that's not the vibe I get from the story.

What a nice idea for a digression. Jar-eel relates the murder of the Emperor in a syncretic myth featuring Orlanth, Sedenya, Tolat (aka Shargash), and Artia. However, the question is a bit difficult, because you are dealing with the Jenarong dynasty here, or maybe three dynasties (Hyaloring and two different horse warlord lineages, over time merging into one people (at latest after their defeat at Argentium Thri'ile). Urban Dara Happan lore surely was fed into the Jenarong emperor cult, and so the Murharzarm and Ovosto lore may have been present. The Dara Happans call the slayer Rebellus Terminus, and there isn't really a need for this person to have been identified with the specific son of Umath at the time. The last rebel, or the rebel ending the golden reign of Yelm, is just one of many rebels, the one who brings the power of Death. So, how is Death identified in Peloria? The wasp-headed version of Humakt found in Pelanda? The Bat of Rinliddi? Or was it the one, Unbreakable Sword to the Dara Happans? At least two of the rebels shown by Jar-eel are "planetary sons" of Yelm, Sedenya and Tolat. The entire affair may have been a fratricide. Both of the Planetary Offspring had gone to Hell and back. Artia the Bat surely had done so, too, but I cannot really identify her with one of the original eight planets. And then there is the fourth rebel. Was there a fourth rebel in the first place? And could it have been Lodril? One could think that Peloria was a bowl of irregular storms after Umath was disintegrated in the Crater at the White Camp at the hands of Shargash emerging from Hell. Maybe these fragmented storms were slowly integrated by the sons of Umath. There was the Vadrudi host, lots of small and often nameless storms who followed Storm Tribe's best fighter and raider. A Wild Hunt ravaging land and sea. Entekos, the Gentle Air, was the only planet holding to its original position when Umath invaded. Esrolia - Land of 10k Goddesses has a different Sky God emperor instead, Harono, and remains with a local Vestkarthen whose sons nevertheless are all around, like Empty Mountain in the Mislari. There is a weird co-dependence between the Storm and the Mountain-Maker tribe. Some giants or mountains get killed, but most get co-opted. If you subscribe to the Dara Happan take of the event - Murharzarm killed, Yelm disintegrating - then the co-conspirators from among the Planetary "Sons" would be fratricides. There appears to have been a prophecy that one of the descendants of Sartar would absolve the Telmori from the Werewolf Curse. Exterminating the tribe surely did end the curse, but... I wonder what brought Salinarg so close to the Wolfmen. Harsaltar was eight at the Fall of Boldhome, so Salinarg has to have been dallying with the werewolves already in the middle of Terasarin's reign. Quite likely the contact was limited to the Boldhome Telmori, but still it is an unusual thing for an openly acclaimed member of the Sartar dynasty to mingle with this uncomfortable bunch of bodyguards, and to take a wife from among them. I guess Kostajor's lineage through Onelisin wasn't exactly well advertised among the Sartarites. In a way, Kostajor's branch of the family was the closest part of the inofficial dynasty to Argrath. Onelisin and her offspring disappear from the public view as if she was dis-inherited. There was some speculation that Onelisin stepped up as successor of Saronil after Sarotar's untimely death, and that Jarolar may have had to remove her from the dynastic court in order to attain his father's throne. It cannot have helped that Saronil died rescuing one of Onelisin's daughters, even if the feud with the mostali was started when he used dwarf technology to build a temple to Orlanth. Somehow, paternal descent became the norm of all Princes of Sartar up to and including Kallyr. Argrath is the first to claim maternal descent, and that through three generations. Kostajor's descendants had only one generation of female descent.

Are you talking about the Argrath who uses Lunar magic and illumination as one component of his new-fangled warlock units? The Telmori wildday rampages are the result of a gift from Nysalor (who may well be seen as an avatar of Sedenya) which granted them the impervious skin alongside with their ability to take that in-between shape at will, and then a curse of Talor which compellled them to take that shape on wilddays, and to let go of all rationality. For a certain period. The Eleven Lights and the Eaglebrown Warlocks were Argrath's ace in the hole at the Battle of Sword Hill. The Eaglebrowns continue to appear in the muster of the Magical Union. The Eleven Lights aren't there in the boardgame (which precedes first mention of the Eleven Lights by at least 12 years, though). The Telmori bodyguard was one reason the uneasy peace between the Telmori and their neighbors held while there were Princes of Sartar. Telmori are cursed with a gift that may register as chaotic. This puts them into a similar position as e.g. cave trolls with their ability to regenerate damage. Outside of Wilddays, they are powerful, exotic beast-warrior teams, almost fighting as a single entity in two bodies. On Wilddays, they retreat in order to keep the peace. We know that Ostling Four-Wolf both was a Telmori, and somehow wasn't. It would be interesting to know whether the Helkos Brothers were subject to the curse, and whether Salinarg's queen was a normal cursed Telmori woman, or also a descendant of Kostajor possibly free of the curse. I don't think so. Argrath aims higher than Broyan. For all the talk about Broyan instituting a Vingkotling kingship (which in the end he failed to do, not leaving a dynasty behind him), Broyan never had the chance to step forward and seek the greater Kingship of Dragon Pass that individuals like Arim, Sartar, Tarkalor and Moirades had. Argrath goes for that within two years after becoming Prince of the Quivini. For comparison: It took Sartar two years of contest to win over the Feathered Horse Queen in addition to significant preparatory efforts to win the contest for her hand. Tarkalor became King of Dragon Pass in his sixth year as (Vingkotling dynasty) Prince of Sartar. Argrath gets his first Sacred Kingship within four years of his return to Dragon Pass, and then he goes on to get recognized by the Kethaelans and enters a second such contest (more arduous, it appears) for Sacred Kingship of Saird. What does this Sacred King ship mean? There was no office of King of Dragon Pass at the Dawn, but there was the equivalent of it: the Bearer of Kero Fin's Necklace. The individual who held this office at the Dawn was Aram ya Udram, not a Heortling, but an Earth- and Darkness-worshipping human whose offspring went to become the Tusk Riders. The Heortling tribes at the Dawn had three higher authorities that they would accept - the High King of the Heortlings, the Only Old One who ruled the Kingdom of Night, to which the Heortlings confessed, and the sacred spouse of Kero Fin. Given the overall harmony of the first 150 years of history, summons to war by any of these three authorities would have been rare, and eagerly sought out by those hungry for glory in battle. Argrath Saga never has Argrath claiming the title of the High King of the Heortlings. I think the last individual who may have done so could have been Finelvanth the Flyer. But he does don the mantle of the succession of the Only Old One and Belintar after he fights Harrek to a stand-still in the Rightarm Islands (the second time he survives a direct confrontation with that superhero). Two out of three ain't bad. Does Argrath become an Emperor? His dealings with the Lodrili (as far as I am concerned, two l are enough for these people) might be seen to push him in such a role for Peloria outside of Saird, but the insistence of calling their overlord emperor comes from the Dara Happans, not the Pelorian peasants, who had accepted rulership of the Shahs of Carmania with little military persuasion (most of that went to their Dara Happan overseers and whatever resistance they could cough up). So, does Argrath have to face the Alexander conundrum? I don't think so. When he "liberates" Peloria from Lunar Liberation through bringing Sheng Seleris back, he has no authority in Peloria outside of Saird (and just maybe Talastar). When he overcomes Sheng and sends him back to from where he rescued him, he genuinely liberates Peloria, and even though he had brought the monster back, I suppose that the Pelorians are genuinely grateful for removing Sheng again. I notice the absence of speculation about how Sheng affects the lands east of Pent. I don't see him extend his influence all the way beyond the Snow Line into Beast Rider territory, or to Teshnos, but northern and central Kralorela and Ignorance would be as logical targets for Sheng, at least after re-taking the Lunar Empire. From the Kralorelan section, Godunya most likely already has left this world by then, with no clear successor. (How many Kralorelan emperors named their successor?) Interesting speculation. Although one might phrase it differently: does Argrath lead Orlanth and Ernalda through utuma to a transcendent existence, alongside Sedenya and possibly the other major stakeholders in the highest levels of Gloranthan magical authority?

Basically the description of the Wolf Runners in the Dragon Pass boardgame tells us that they are Telmori subject to Gbaji's curse to become uncontrolled monsters on wilddays. King of Sartar tells us how White Bull and allies exterminated and skinned the Telmori, wearing their furs afterwards, and gaining the name. p.19 in the hardcover edition says: All the later scenarios in the boardgame give access to the Wolf Runners. That might be a historical inaccuracy, or it might be read as a way the magic was conserved. According to CHDP Kallyr has the support of the Telmori, even though she probably had been among those from the Kheldon who fought against them in 1607. Minaryth Blue mentions Argrath's quarrel with the Telmori in the same year that Argrath married the FHQ and Minaryth Blue (and possibly Argrath) fought and killed Dinacoli.

moved to the Telmori thread

The Daka Fal cult of Cults of Prax is a Praxian tradition, so I don't doubt that the Praxians contact spirits. I am a lot less convinced that Duke Raus, a documented ancestor worshipper, contacts spirits, too, and the ancestors as per King of Dragon Pass are visiting from the Godworld (or an underworld, not sure about that, and that's why I asked). Indeed, full agreement there. Interesting opinion. On the other hand, ancestral spirits crave the embrace of mortal flesh, and will go into deals with descendants to be able to experience living bodies once again. Froalar and his followers did. No idea what sent Duke Neleos and various other Greater Darkness colonists packing. But I am talking about later exodus movements. Arkat's Crusade was the first within Time that I know of - it appears that the participants all remained in Genertela, to wit Arolanit, and did not return to Brithos. There are two documented further waves of Brithini immigration in the Seshnegi Kings List, and it was those I was talking about. So no, you did not yet send any denial of this. Unless you need a very united Brithos to stand behind you for the project to return the island to Danmalastan, with such measly side effects like drowning Fronela, which made Prince Snodal perform the theomachy of the God of the Silver Feet. And this couldn't apply to other groups who have differences with Zzabur while remaining true to Malkion's Laws? So the recorded memories of or about a deceased person are as much as the dead ancestor has to impart as knowledge (and knowledge means magic). I wonder about the Rokari creed. It appears harsh and hopeless to me, lots of fire and brimstone but hardly any promise of a better place in either this world or whatever comes after. It is known that Zzabur is incapable of doing and knowing what the Creator did, so there is proof that even Erasanchula Reason and Logic cannot write down or otherwise communicate what lies beyond. Wisdom, and direction in their decisions. Like Hrestol did when he conceived the concept of the Men of All or the theomachy of Ifftala. So the question is whether this might be the form of ancestor worship hinted at in the Praxian Daka Fal write-up from Cults of Prax. The restriction not to be initiated to any rune cult is almost impossible to maintain for Heortlings. Pelorians are surprisingly a lot less likely to initiate, so there might be a stronger direct ancestor worship. But we know that Heortlings worship their ancestors, and possibly including individual ones, too. To them the Daka Fal _cult_ as written in Cults of Prax is worthless. Note that Hrestol spread such ideas on Brithos, too, when he visited. In order to summon them up you have to grant them some form of perpetuity after Death, something hotly denied by Zzaburism and Rokarism. You can summon up Erasanchula, Burtae or Srvuali (or spirits) who never were mortal and who accept worship, and in all likelihood the summoning will be almost indistinguishible from worship when perceived from the other side of the veil, but you cannot summon what was destroyed and subjected to entropy. You might contact the inhabitants of the Godtime (or whatever the sorcerers called it prior to God Learner monomyth) by visiting and interacting with them on the hero planes, but that's decidedly different from reaching through the veil. Now no sorcerer would deny that errant and disgusting fragments of identity of worshippers can be forced back from whichever wrong limbo they get stuck in. It is a filthy and hostile place, tearing at the substance of their magic and consuming it, but it can be done.

I think that the single gender species, including beastfolk, can have offspring with a number of related entities. Minotaurs would regard both human and cattle females as suitable partners for sex, with cattle the more usual option. Swan maidens have famously mated with Heortlings, the Hiording clan of the Colymar is descended from one. (Pretty much the entirety of this snippet of Wayland's saga applies, I would guess.) Elurae should be able to get children from successful seductions of human males. The children will always be fox-women, though, but they might inherit a few traits from the father. Or, perhaps as likely, the fathers might find themselves missing a few traits, only to observe them in their elura offspring should they ever meet.

Does this acknowledge language families and subfamilies? Personally, I can read a few languages without having to use a dictionary for every third word, and a couple more with such aid, but most of these are Germanic or Romance Indo-European languages, with Finnish my only halfway literacy level non-Indoeuropean language. To contrast, a tenant of mine from Kenia speaks English (a Germanic Indo-European language) (and learns German), Swahili (a creole based on Semitic languages) and a tribal (Bantu) language. That's much more of a linguistic spread stance than mine.

I wonder why everyone is so sure that ancestor worship deals with spirits. Where do these ancestors that can be called in before they get re-incarnated reside? If it is an Underworld (not necessarily the charred Wonderhome that now is Yelm's underground realm, but possibly a spirit home like Aldrya's Depths, Ty Kora Tek's cavern, or other such places), it is a place where there is no clear division between spirits, divine entities, or even sorcerous essences (although the latter tend to regard the Underworld as antithetical to their state of energy patterns). The Axis Mundi pierces the veil to wherever these ancestors reside. If there are plenty Orlanthi among the Praxians, as David pulled the numbers, these would have another Afterlife in addition to the Great Herd, which is Karulinoran in the Gods World (beyond the Hero Planes, although the usual starting point into the planes for Orlanthi questers). As an aside, what happens when an ancestor re-incarnates as a new child? Do the descendants lose contact to the remains of individuality that reside in the respective afterlives? The re-incarnated ancestor will be a different individual, sharing some, but almost always not all traits of their former existence. (The reborn incarnations of Mani of the Rubble are a significant exception to this. If they still are canonical.) In most Afterlives, Death causes a (degree of) loss of individuality, or at least a severe change thereof. Brithini expect complete dissolution of their individuality patterns of thought and energy in Solace. It is unclear whether they expect to be able to contact their grandparents who lived before Death entered the world in one of the Hero Planes. Being the Logician tribe and big on fixing Thought and Logic in documents, the Brithini might consult diaries (or something similar, possibly obituaries collected when they died) of their ancestors as a way of both honoring their ancestors and of learning from them. There are Hrestoli (and hence there were Makanists) believing in re-incarnation. Orthodox Zzaburists don't/mustn't, and Rokari mustn't. We know that Zzabur cleansed his doctrine by sending out the dissidents, much in the same way the Protestants of Europe used the USA as a dump for their weirder cousins in confession. I am not convinced that Zzabur would regard the Arolanit Brithini as equals to those he decided to keep under his let's say benevolence. Of the rest of these emigrants, most joined their (then Hrestoli) cousins on the mainland, with only tentative emigrants to Sog City/Akem or Arolanit and maybe God Forgot able to continue a Brithini existence resisting old age by going through the ancient motions, aging ever so slowly. It isn't clear whether any of the Second Age emigrants from Brithos died of old age before the cataclysms ended the Middle Sea Empire and the lives of millions of its inhabitants. Quite a lot of these emigrants ended up in the parts of Seshnela and Jrustela which were claimed by the cataclysms that sank much of the God Learner empire (starting 1049 with the arrival of the Luatha), but there were survivors from those cataclysms in Genertela at least, flooding into safer places like Tanisor, and exile Brithini may very well have been among those. The Guide statement on Hrestoli belief in re-incarnation is bloody obscure, and it seems to contradict the Malkioni doctrine we are served in the chapter on Western culture. However, that chapter is written mostly from a Rokari perspective, with some mentions how the New Idealist Hrestoli differ from that. While this does cover the official religious doctrine of the vast majority of Malkioni in Glorantha, neither Rokarism nor New Hrestoli Idealism are direct successors of the previous practices, but there may be significant numbers of only outwardly converted Malkioni. Southern Seshnela definitely has these, as per Guide, e.g. among the Pithdarans. But the Galvosti are a branch of Hrestolism that departed from Seshnelan orthodoxy possibly in the Gbaji Wars or the interregnum that preceded it, which means that this belief in re-incarnation may have been a Dawn Age development, or even older. I wonder about Hrestol and his mother, Xemela. Xemela is counted among the Ascended Masters of Malkionism, which does seem to imply some continued existence, if not of her individuality, then maybe of her thoughts and teachings, the essence of her mind. To the Logicians, this might be a form of philosophical afterlife. Xemela's self-sacrifice falls into the Grey Age, IMO, possibly starting it for the Seshnegi colonies. Maybe the "ancestors worshipped by the people of Seshneg as if they were gods" were these ascended masters. And just possibly many of the Danmalastan ancestors might somehow have qualified in their closeness to Malkion, so that this ancestor worship is somehow limited to those whose manifestations of their minds still are in any way approachable. Similar to the idea of Brithini obituaries for those who they lost. Sorcerers will be quick to point out that the energy patterns that they see making up the minds of individuals are far from identical to such conserved expressions of these minds. They might also claim that a re-incarnation of the energies that made up a mind won't be in a pattern that they could identify with the former person's mind. But do they have the ultimate authority and knowledge about the world? Exposure to chthonic practices (which include a belief in re-incarnation) comes already with the marriages of Malkion to the mothers of the Caste ancestors, especially Dronar's (or Dromal's) mother, Kala. These names come tied to (but left out of) the Brithos text in Revealed Mythology p.25f, the canonicity of which I doubted but which @Jeff pronounced True and Canonical for the Malkioni, alongside that much longer Zzaburist diatribe that precedes it, so the canonicity of Phlia, Kala and other wives of Malkion are a bit in doubt, but Jelela (mentioned as mother of Waertag) survives in the name of the city of Jelelawal in Arolanit. When the Guide says that Hrestoli sects believe in re-incarnation, it might simply mean that this is a thing the Rokari suppressed, and anything non-Rokari is easily subsumed in terms like Hrestoli or, if applicable, Stygian. In this case, it looks like a pre-Stygian notion which may be present in various Stygian creeds, too, although there the notion may as well have come from the non-Malkioni influences. Another potential source for this belief comes from Hykimi Ancestor Worship that may have been adapted to the beast warrior societies which even the Rokari did not dissolve, despite their blatantly Hsunchen origin. It might be a case of "Wolf Runners" changing from Telmori to the warband which claims to have exterminated the Telmori (one of the weirder things in the Argrath Saga, and one I don't quite think of as true), but more likely is a post- (and counter-) factual declaration of such. So, we have both the Warrior Caste (if maybe only post-Brithini) and the Farmer/Workman Caste (already Brithini or pre-Brithini) with a good access to ancestor worship and re-incarnation proof. That covers 98% of the Malkioni.

Cattle for instance are mammals and so fall into the category of storm beasts as much as earth beasts. If you take the Praxian/God Learner genealogy, there are Hykim, Mikyh, Umath and an Earth deity (hard to say which top tier mother goddess) lining up as grandparents of the herds. But for the humans, there is no racial element to choose either. Why for an elura? The choice of element could be personal, and defining the character's personality besides being a fox woman. Illusion is the rune given to Eurmal in ownership, so that fits just as well. Even Mobility/Change works for a Trickster (ask the Dara Happans or the Imtherians). The Elura description (except for the part about shape-shifting) sounds very much like the female complement to the satyrs. The only mention of fox-women in the Guide appears to be for the Jaubon (Kralorela) city of Xianwei. Everything said there fits with the description in Sartar Companion, so there is no reason to assume that the two populations of fox women on both side of Genert's Garden (or the ruins thereof) are different species. We don't have any information when and how these two populations came to be, and came to be separated. It is quite likely that there were Elurae in Genert's Garden, perishing along with a multitude of other peoples when Chaos invaded. So why do you rank goats as storm and cattle as earth, and not vice versa? Thed was a herd goddess much like Eiritha but for choice of her Umathson. There are numerous other goat mother deities away from Dragon Pass, most of them either Earth goddesses or beast spirits. Satyrs are known for their wiles to get nymphs and other females to share wherever they rest. Minotaurs and manticores are usually considered not that quick of wit, but that won't stop minotaurs from doing "pranks" like drunk adolescent soccer fans. Young male centaurs are as much a plague as Grazer or Praxian braves wishing to prove themselves as eligible partner for females, and might engage in abduction of females or similar clicheed pastimes.

Why do you think that Beastmen (even ones shared with Kralorela) necessarily need an element? It is easy to assign Sun/Fire to the centaurs and Storm to the minotaurs, swan maidens to Sea/Water and the manticores could take Darkness, but what would you do about satyrs, Earth? None of the fire-stealers are particularly fiery, if you look at Eurmal or Raven. I don't quite see Disorder for the fox ladies, either - mischief is part of all beast folk.

True, her getting envious puts her into Umath's camp (and possibly into Umath's Camp, too, and into stories like about the Imperial Gazellet). But her feeding off Death and becoming a corruption of the clean separation of Humakt clearly puts that part of her career into the Storm Age, when Yelm was in Hell. Even though the Golden Age supposedly was an utopia, there was a goddess of Healing already, but Kargan Tor also was there guarding a Power that wasn't fully realized. And I keep remaining surprised how early in the Dara Happan timeline of the Golden Age Umath was born. Unfortunately they don't give a date for his invasion of the Sky (as far as I remember).

A suggested correction by @M Helsdon made me look up Mallia mythology, and it isn't all that clear-cut when she stopped being an entity of dark fertility and immunity to disease and when she became the source of diseases. Cults of Terror (and Cults Compendium) presents Mallia as the corrupted member of the Unholy Trio and sort of suggests that this had always been the case. Cult Compendium p.255: This is clearly Mallia after Death had entered the world. Everything stated here is correct for her career during the Lesser and Greater Darkness. But when did she surface, or what did she do in the Golden Age? The best source I found so far is Heortling Mythology, which support's Martin's suggested changes to the text (p.103): So her path to mistress of Disease preceded her joining the Unholy Trio. Here's a snippet from the Yelm cult which is a bit problematic to place in the Gods Age: (source Cult Compendium p.243) This suggests that Mallia walked the surface world before Yelm was slain, or that this deed of Antirius went over to the parent cult.

This Mallia mythology deserves a deeper look. Overall, I am with @M Helsdon's suggestions, but I'll start a separate thread on the subject.

No, definitely not. There is some crossover in the Pol-Joni tribe, and there are followers of both Orlanth and Waha especially in the Bison tribe, but that's about it. But New Pavis initially included Praxians in its citizenry, until some unpleasantness led to them being complimented outside of Dorasar's walled city, to Badside. Farmer's Quarter took over the ground their tents had covered before, IIRC.

I think that the "three strictly separate worlds" doctrine caused much harm to the way the Heortlings were portrayed. "It's dreadful spirit magic, we cannot defend against that" is a common theme in King of Dragon Pass when a shaman goes against the clan. There may be such clans, but I don't think that they are the norm. Unlike Hero Wars or HeroQuest, in RuneQuest it was considered normal for an Orlanthi to go to a shaman rather than traveling to a more distant temple for learning a spirit spell. These friendly or at least approachable shamans must be around somewhere, and not all of them will be without family ties to this world. There will be clans who have shaman members, and if they keep to the wilder parts of the tula, that still makes them no different from hunters or herdsmen. What does it take to cast an Axis Mundi, and how does the caster renew those points from their rune pool? Is it a zero sum game, with the added opportunity for a POW gain roll? Does the caster have to be a full shaman? If you have the Axis Mundi, it serves as the conduit that the shaman-fetch connection provides otherwise. An unguarded conduit will allow random access for all kinds of hostile spirits, but the Axis Mundi should filter the eligible spirits down to ancestors of the participants of the rite. If those include hostile spirits, having a shaman or similar spirit defenses at the ready is a good idea, but otherwise a retired hearth mistress should be able to perform such services, and have libation offerings or similar for notoriously ill-mannered ancestors. Do the Brithini ascribe to animism? I think that their doctrine says that there is (tappable) energy in everything, and that animists and theists make the mistake to endow these energies with personalities that don't have any business in that place, leading to strange feedback loops enslaving themselves to the idols they made. A sorcerer with his mystic vision active will be able to observe a spirit or soul leaving a body, as a pattern or potential of (tappable) energy shifting its state of embodiment. In the case of multiple souls, the sorcerer may observe this pattern unravel into subpatterns moving on to certain runes, possibly only after a seven day grace period when the pattern can be restored. Brithini sorcerers know how to re-implant such a pattern into a body once it has been repaired of the damage that caused the pattern to leave in the first place. They might know ways to stabilize a pattern to keep it from deteriorating while preparing the actual resurrection. Still, the Brithini procedure is subject to losses and risks, and doesn't always succeed completely, or at all. I would be interested in Brithini observations of how such a pattern enters Solace and disperses there - there should be such observations. Hrestoli sects believe in reincarnation. They should have similar access to observation of deaths and what happens afterwards, although I am not sure they possess the resurrection spells of the Brithini any more. Froalar's sorcerers probably still had that knowledge, but repeated foreign overlordship may have led to losses in the body of knowledge of the Malkioni sorcerers.

When was the road established? The Guide gives Castelain's (successful) offer of instituting the road for 1170. That's just after the final throes of the Adjustment wars (Finelvanth dies in 1168). We don't have any dates for the establishment of Porthomeka. It might well have fallen into the power vacuum left by the expelled Adjustment overlords (or their stepping down from power, but remaining, letting their mostly local wives take the reign). While all traders want to avoid requisition of their wares by one or the other side when entering contested lands, they often would gain acceptance by including the people nearby in their trading, so I don't think that they would avoid regions like Thonble, although maybe relegate them to a branch business from some other city on the main route. Caladraland has its own native lowlanders, mainly in Vinavale and around the Low Temple in Highvale, who were the target of the God Learner experimentators who instituted the twin cult of Caladra and Aurelion. Whether they have orchards, staggered horticulture like the people on the slopes of Mt. Kilimanjaro (no, not the other one), or do hack and slash cultivation with their digging sticks, they don't plow (or employ draft beasts for plows). It isn't clear whether they have any domesticated or semi-domesticated beasts besides fowl. Possibly some variant of guinea pigs or the Polynesian rat for gatherers' meat. While the Guide offers some ideas about diet and agricultural produce in other regions, there are no such details for Caladraland. The region appears to be strongly under-described, as is most of its history. Even if much of the Slontan influences are actively forgotten, there should be some notes in the libraries to illuminate that region's history.

@davecake makes a lot of sense with regard to what makes up elf forests. Yet still we have the Dawn Age ecological wars between green elf and brown elf dominated forests in Umathela, Jolar and Pent. (All regions untouched by the Lightbringers message of unity, but then there aren't any reports of elf wars in Teshnos or on the East Isles either.) Having lived near the northern tree border north of the Arctic Circle, it still makes me wonder what Winterwood looks like near the front of the Glacier. I cannot really imagine endless spruce woods there, but keep seeing rather short birches and pines battling the cold and famished beasts with little alternative for sustenance outside of berry season. If that holds true, then the arctic birches are part of the Winterwood ecology (or at least associated), even though they are deciduous. (As is the dwarf birch, betula nana, whose red leaves contribute in a major way to the Finnish Ruskea, a kind of Indian Summer of arctic tundra and open forest - no idea how that plays out in Alaska or Canada.) So, what is mythically more important, membership in an ecosystem, or going to the deep sleep in winter? It is not like the arctic pines get to do much photosynthesis during the frozen months, they just don't drop their needles all at once. (Both pine and spruce do litter their forest ground with needles.) Glorantha has a rather short history of winters, after the great mythical one when the glacier covered almost all of Genertela except for islands of resistance, whether on mountaintops, in enclaves encircled by ice, or under the Ice (like Manarlarvus' Dome). But that is only true if we accept the Golden Age as only one cycle. "Godtime is cyclical", we are told, but all the stories we have are just from the last cycle segment. Instead, we find cycles of build-up and cataclysm in Linear Time. Gloranthan stratigraphy e.g. in Snake Pipe Hollow suggests repeated periods of complete flooding and massive dry spells when the waters evaporated, and the fossils show that there was at least sea life when this happened. There may have been a Carbon-like domination by forest, too. (It appears that in our world that was a result of a long inability of organisms to digest lignin, making it an unrepeatable one-off event unless plants happen to develop a new such fixer for their cellulose fibres. In Glorantha, the earth cube's upper surface bobbing in and out of Sramak's River several times, or alternatively huge standing waves claiming that surface, would be enough of an extincion event to preserve some fossil wood, although I think that most greenery that gets flooded ends up as food for the sea entities. The Treetop isles connecting Kerofinela with one of the neighboring dry lands during the Flood probably only were the plants exhibiting the most resistance.) The demarkation line beween green and brown elves appears to be rather clearcut - hibernate in the winter, or find sleep in a day and night cycle. The Yellow elves stay awake for all of their life. That, and being an all male society ruled by the sedentary dryads, might contribute to their belligerence.

I already mentioned this once, but ancestor worship in Glorantha may be weirdly limited in exogamous (or in the Esrolian case, exoandrous) communities to those who died as a community member. Except when useful (Argrath claiming Sartar bloodline through Onelisin), maternal lineage appears to be mostly ignored in Heortling clans. Or do the Heortling women (and the Esrolian men) have different ancestor rites, enabling them to interact with blood ancestors from outside of the clan (Esrolian house) who normally don't have any ties to their clan (house) of marriage? How much does this extend to their hearth, and does it jump to the children of that hearth (regardless of their physical parentage) through the private rites of the hearth (or whatever Esrolian men and men in matrilocal clans have as a shadow society)? Malkioni customs are comparatively unknown. They are sticklers for male descendance, which suggests some strict control over the sex lives of their females, but there doesn't seem to be any prescription for marriage in the Abiding Book. Guilmarn the Fat has four wives and countless concubines, all of them of the (Rokari) Talar caste (or in case of exotic foreigner females without Rokari caste assignation, elevated to such status). At the same time, @Jeff mentioned in a discussion that marital fidelity is much less of an issue for Rokari women than selecting sex partners from the correct caste (her father's caste, at least her official father's caste). With concubinate, there will be children born outside of wedlock, or born into a marriage that doesn't include the father of the child. (There are or used to be practices where a concubine was placed in a marriage with some follower of the powerful man, often a marriage that may have consisted in a single cohabitation on occasion of the marriage of the often pregnant concubine, making sure that church or similar societal demands for wedlock were obeyed.) I wonder whether the concubinat is practiced by rich burgher Dronars in Seshnela, too, and possibly by high ranking Horal people. If there are places with rich farmers anywhere in Guilmarn's kingdom, those famers might have effective concubinat with serving girls, too. Arkat, the problem child and child prodigy: In one version of the story I heard, Arkat was placed in the Horal caste by virtue of his maternal grandfather being one. In another one, there was speculation that he wasn't the first (or indeed, second) birth of his mother, and should have been assigned to the Zzabur caste instead (which in that case would come as third child caste). Both stories agreed that Arkat spent his childhood years with the Children of the Forest of Aldrya. (Two Elf forests are named for Brithos in the published fragment in Revealed Mythologies, the same as in Hrestol's Saga.) The question is: how does such extramarital procreation affect ancestral ties? A formal adoption allows the adopted individual access to the community ancestors, but does it allow the community access to the blood ancestors of the individual in whichever magnitude? We don't even know for the Praxians, their ancestor units are tribal, combining all clans' ancestry (only leaving ancestors of slave women from other tribes or even non-Praxians like e.g. Teshnos whose children of their owners became full clan members). The baboon gift to Biturian illustrates that the Axis Mundi is mighty enough to allow access to ancestors of participants of the ritual even if they don't belong to the community that produced the Axis, but that might be reserved for extraordinarily powerful shamans (as the Baboons are famous for, even getting a shaman unit in the expanded unit line-up of the French Dieux Nomads edition). If contact can be made by any participant to all his blood ancestors, this form of ancestor worship is far superior in reach compared to the worship enabled at clan shrines.

Ok, so what brand of Hrestolism or what features of Hrestolism do you think were targeted by the Rightness crusaders?