Joerg

I emphasized that it was another secret, not the secret which submitted the God World to God Learner manipulation. (And which is commonly regarded as "the" God Learner secret.) Given that most of this seems to have been limited to Umathela, I suspect it has to do with the creation of the False Gods worship and how even the imaginary Jogrampur returned meaningful magic. (That experiment does bear a certain similarity to the Avanapdur episode in Eastern mythology.) I think it is the secret about quantifying worship in order to manufacture a mythic reality. Fronela had been purged of God Learners, so there would have been only few survivors with that forbidden knowledge. Slontos and Seshnela had been drowned and/or conquered by barbarians, so a much heavier blood toll had already been extracted. Esrolia Land of 10k Goddesses mentions the fate of God Learner families in Nochet, and how one of them was exterminated. (But that, too, occurred after a massive destruction of the city, ruining even the greater part of its ancient cyclopic walls). Jrustelan humanity was exterminated, whether of Seshnegi or Olodo origin. A timinit population remained, but massive losses of timinit lives among the Malkioni are likely, too. This leaves Umathela as mostly untouched God Learner center. The Doom Guardians must have been a suicide order, too - once all the God Learners who knew or knew about the secret, they had to eliminate themselves.

What baffled me is p.133 That predates Seshnegi colonies on Jrustela by 23 years. The 478 date suffers from the usual vagueness of "from Elamle". The only yellow elf forest able to interact with Banamba is Gaskallia. The Mirelos forest elves may have spread into Moino and established their ties to Delerenkos. The trade expeditions into Moino have special taboos which sound like stuff similar to the Woodland Judgements of Enkloso or the Oath of Elamle. The entry for 600 tells us that this elf domination is broken by the Glorious Ones, who seem to be the Gargandites. Some liberation... Judging from the wealth of names tied to Arimadalla and his successors, I suspect that there exists at least a Fronelan King List to parallel the Seshnelan King List which is included in The Middle-Sea Empire. I would love to read the Life of Halwal. Jonat gets ashore in Seshnela in 1050 (despite the Closing, similar to a certain Belintar), but soon enough to bring strictly cloistered wizards from Seshnela to Syanor the year after the Sinking. (Or maybe during it, offering them a chance to escape through the Underworld. They might have been of Halwal's order.) Jonatssaga is another of Greg's early novels, a prequel to Snodal's saga (which reputedly was his first completed work set in Glorantha).

Is he anti-canonical? I'll be the first to wish to have a more thorough world history written in the style of Uz Lore, covering all major developments, nicely mapped. I estimate such a project to at least 200 pages (including maps, timelines, regional dynasties). Maybe we should start producing such a thing.

The Blank Lands never were supposed to be banned - quite to the contrary, they were reserved for your campaign's world building. But maybe the reactions to Genertela Box showed that people treated the rest of the world just like Blank Lands were supposed to be treated, with intense sub-creation, and so some more useful information was given for those places. I'm especially pleased about the information revealed about Sulayz in Umathela. I agree. Sheng's realm covered several geographic regions, and none of these regions does his empire justice. Kralori bureaucrats in Peloria, Pelorian workers and a former Red Emperor in northern Kralorela... That's (apart from Dormal) a strictly regional history. Tanisor finally being cut from Ralios and claimed as heartland Seshnela is another big event in the early Third Age. Carmania gets hardly any press either in this or the previous age. There appears to be a pattern in Malkionism - at the start of a historical age, Henotheist/Stygian movements are strong, then about 150-200 years into the age a counter-movement of monotheistic purism, while at the end of the historical age the henotheistic movements grow more dominant. The Third Age starts with a failed attempt to reinstate the Autarchy (Jorstland lasted for a generation or so after the Halwal-supported fragmented Arkati revivalists had diminished the Kingdom of Seshnela into a memory), the Carmanian Malkioni element lost out to the Bull Shahs (who still were happy to have sorcerers at their beck, though), and the Manirian road continues the impure Malkionism. Jonat's kingdom is another case of sorcerers and priests in a single realm. Loskalm and coastal southern Seshnela, especially Pithdaros, are the main centers of uncompromising Hrestolism.

Carried over from the Dawn Age: The demigod brothers Hestus and Lendarsh and their Kargzanti followers each conquered and united parts of what would become Carmania in the Gray Age, presumably about the same time Jenarong re-established a Dara Happan empire. The map in TFS 13 shows Jenarong's Reign, with the Lendarshi sandwiched between the Oroninae occupying the Poralistor region and the Bisosi south of the Brass Mountains. To the west they are separated from the Sweet Sea by the Ker(e)usi. The Dawn map in the Guide p.126 has Lenshis in the eastern part of this territory and an unnamed horse warlord realm around Lake Oronin. Lendarshi are shown roaming in the Poralistor valley, both north and south, whereas Veshtargos are shown roaming in Doblian. (I wonder whether the term Lendarshi has the sme meaning in both maps, or whether Lenshi and the unnamed Oronin horse warlord realm are the Lendarshi of TFS.) TFS p.16 shows the reign of Khordavu (i.e. around 230, after Argentium Thri'ile. The message for the Lendarshi region is "rapid expansion of forests covers this area" which reaches into Karasal and stops just before Naveria. The Guide p.127 shows a border between Dara Happa and the Greenwood for 265, the foundation of the Second Council. Erraibdavu 's conquest and Mahzanelm's actions against the temple of Parandol come significantly later than that. Before it comes to this, a Daxdarian general named Zeridexos overcame a Dara Happan army at the obscure places of Perduces and Undentos. Entekosiad gives a nod toward the aldryami expansion (p.74): "as if the sun itself would stop overhead" - is this just foreshadowing of the Sunstop, or does this confuse the Bright Empire with the Dara Happan invasions? All that talk about the Dara Happan War Gods makes it sound as if deities like Daysenerus were roaming about. Nothing of this tells us about the Lendarshi horse warlord tribes, though, or how Lenshi came to be part of Dara Happa by the reign of Anirmesha (according to the Guide p.127). The noble houses created by the companions of Lendarsh might have been assimilated and become Idovanic rulers. Did the Lendarshi send their riders to Argentium Thri'ile? If so, why would they? If not, what became of them?

There was also the Elf Empire of Errinoru that unified the Pamaltelan jungles (though not the Umathelan forests) and harrassed the rest of the world. Dara Happa had interesting times, The naval empire of Golden Mokato ended Waertagi domination of the seas along with the Battle of Tanian's Fire. Other empires came and went. The Stygian Autarchy prospered until faced with the Return to Rightness crusade. The Spolites had their version of dark illumination contaminating much of Peloria until they were thwarted by the Carmanians. The unimportant city of Pavis was founded by heroes, and later attacked by heroes. More heroes fought in the siege of the Clanking City. Earlier heroes were instrumental in creating the Orlanthi empire that later turned into the EWF under the influence of other heroes. The only thing lacking for the Imperial Age are superheroes.

The influence of the Red Goddess is limited to Peloria and its direct neighbors, except for a certain immortal gardener in Kralorela and a weird missionary somewhere in the East Isles. The Red Moon apparently has links to eastern Afadjann with the Yranian Leapers, but that event is hardly described, and starts only 66 years later. The Closing is a good device to sum up the most recent developments around the world. Most other events are dealt with in the regional and local history sections. These are the easter eggs of the Hero Wars. Which other bans do you mean? The weird concept of the Blank Lands in the Genertela Box (and the much weirder concept of including Balazar, one of the best developed regions of Glorantha, under this heading) has been abandoned. There is the magically enclosed land of Tork where Jannisor managed to trap the Mad Sultan (even though the Sultan and a portion of his followers excaped into Dorastor). Other than that and the remaining closed-off territories in Fronela, I am not aware of further such lands.

I am somewhat sceptical of the canonicity of that book, too - Shannon had the Red Elves as maintaining the balance between Growing and Taking, a later development, whereas the Guide has the Red Elves as the first of the plant-men. There are other theories in that book about the Brown Elves which haven't been corroborated in any other documents. A lot of Shannon's ideas in the book are logical conclusions that are within the scope of canon. But then, I think the whole concept of "takers" is from Shannon's work on the Aldryami. The ancient twins are Grower and Maker.

The Hellwood aldryami probably hate the Lunars more than they hate dwarves, and the elves of Erigia hate Lunars and Char-un with a passion that far exceeds their chance ever to meet a mostali. The problem is that each of the three main Elder Races has hard-wired responses to encountering the others. Uz: Yummy elves, and yummy and euphorizing mostali. Mostali: grown things are raw material, and growth has exceeded all demand of the Maker, so it needs to be cut back to size. And the trolls are ravenous vermin that requires extinction. Aldryami: Uz and Mostali are vile takers, never mind any reason or absence thereof.

Historical maps of Genertela: a bit of a pity that we don't get a few for the other continent/islands. A few minor observations for starters: p.126 The precursor civilization of Dorastor, the Feldichi. I wonder whether this was actually the Gold Wheel Dancer civilization. Dorastor is a small land, but the lack of recorded interaction of this civilization with the Vingkotlings or the Daxdarian empire is enigmatic. The rest sank into savagery. Isn’t it significantl funny that the Heortling culture is held up as the epitome of civilization in central Genertela, while the Horse Nomad rulership of Dara Happa and Pelanda is included in the savagery? The Ralian culture based on Hrelar Amali gets surprisingly short thrift here, too. p.127 I wonder how the defeat of the Dara Happan horse warlords led to the downfall of the Lendarshi ones. The Battle of Eleven Beasts doesn’t mention any Pelandan urban folk at all. riding east to their ancestral lands in Pent I had the impression that the Redlands were about as far east as the Starlight Wanderers had migrated, and from the map of their migration I didn’t get the impression that they had claimed those rough lands as those of their ancestors. That would have been further southwest on the Arcos River. p.128 A few unnamed and unexplained major players participate in enabling the Sunstop. The powerful barbarian god of Fronela: Given the suppression of Orlanth under way by Lokamayadon, I don’t think it was Orlanth. The Battle of Eleven Beasts was a century past, and Theyalan influence had spread along all the hills. The ever present White Bear menace kept returning. A generation later Talor has a history with the Gate of Banir, which is associated with the Tarjinian Bull, so there are some indications that it could have been a bull god. But then, we also find Vorthan (the Fronelan form of Tolat/Shargash/Jagrekriand) worshiped in Jonatela. Vorios the Lightning Ram I tend to misread this as “Voriof”.

Unless you accept the greeting, you are not subject to the laws of hospitality - otherwise all it would take to stop a band of Orlanthi raiders would be to offer them hospitality. Sure. To proceed in this way, there has to be a bitter feud, at least on a personal level. True. This single killing probably is but a small part of the feud, and the character in question might have taken voluntary exile before performing this slight. This is a protest against one's own clan taking wergeld for the murder of someone important to the person performing this deed. Dropping the wergeld along with the perpretator of the previous killing is a demonstration against the slayer's own clan as well. The slayer had better an offer to join some powerful person's retinue, since his own clan will most likely decide to distance themselves.

Sure, but I was thinking of getting stats out of a description. HQ can easily have a set of flaws/passions like Loves singing 1W Can't carry a tune in a bucket 7W Hates Critics 17 And don't tell me you wouldn't get good NPC use out of these innocent numbers even in a game of HQ2/G.

Speaking as a GM who would use approximate stats for RQ opposition with the occasional quirk, that's something I can do easily in RQ, but have a hard time to put into HQ without obscuring the strengths of the character. Any NPC, whether in RQ or in HQ, is a potential ally or sidekick, and sometimes it can further the story to see the NPCs that the PCs are supposed to protect suffer results from enemy action. HQ can become a mixed bag, too. In a doomed contest, a player could decide that his contest goal is to "leave a good impression with your leaders while fighting" rather than winning the fight (or achieving the strategic goal of the fight), and succeed while suffering the story consequences of defeat. RQ is a much harder mistress for the same kind of goal. In RQ, I had no problems dividing e.g. a climbing challenge into short sequence of rolls, with the outcome influencing the difficulty of the next roll, sometimes narrating the drama, sometimes letting the player sweat it through situational modifiers. I'm still uncomfortable how to port this technique into HQ. "Loves Sewing" doesn't say anywhere that he is competent at sewing, though. I know enough part-time musicians who love to play their instruments but who definitely aren't anywhere skillfull enough to do so before an audience. That said, player characters should be able to add such whimsical abilities to their character sheets without having to spend valuable training time or similar. Munchkin-like abuse can be countered by situational modifiers if it interferes with the story, or can be made the source for unintended consequences.

Offering peace and admitting a fault of the Nochet/Esrolian customs? The horror! Hmm. The quest is said to have taken place at the end of the Silver Age. Urvana was the female quester, and Serumtha was the female questee. (The gender of the other two questers isn't quite clear - my first assumption was that they were female, then I looked at the names and thought they fitted the male Heortling name pattern. But then Gelstarn ends like Isbarn. Still undecided.) So the two questers were Grandmothers? Or they became Grandmothers? Or Urvana and Serumtha were the (future) Grandmothers? Both may have greeted the Dawn before turning into the founding grandmothers of their respective houses. No problem there. To me this sounds like a fairly ubiquitious rite. I wouldn't doubt that each house has their own secrets about stations and alternative path once the questers have entered the Great Stone. The Grandmothers and Imarja claim that the Dawn resulted from their efforts. Yeah. Sure. It's not like Ernalda participates in the Ritual of the Net. Never mind her lover/husband. But with "We slept/hid, they won" (including their protector Kimantor) there is little that they could have contributed, so they need to glorify what little they achieved beyond all proportions. Yes, every great event in Glorantha is a confluence of activities by many actors and players, but not all activities have the same weight. Overall, I see the activities of Imarja as counter-productive for the whole of Glorantha, focussed on the benefit of Nochet in the first place and Esrolia in the second over all other interests. This Esrolian initiation has quite a few interesting implications. 1. These rites can only be undergone by people who have received their adulthood initiation, but not yet their religious initiation. 2. The questers need to be couples, even if married only for this purpose. That too implies a previous adulthood. (Same sex couples are an option, I think.) 3. The questers get separated during their descent, and each is subjected to individual trials to find their complimentary questee. The questers return with the secret how to awaken the sleepers/hidden houses, an activity that probably is required in the Sacred Time rites. Another way of telling the story, yes. Note that accomplished mystics don't have to experience age, but they might as well undergo a cycle of re-incarnation. I like the possibility that the Grandmothers of Nochet are prey to a Durulz plot for manipulating the humans of Kethaela. They might mistake the name for a variation of Keetela.

For a crackpot theory, Imarja might have been a keet sage approaching the families of Nochet after following the Flow of the Sshorg river (or awash with the Solkathi current) and taking the detour into the Lykos. (I still see the second s around the k in that name as somewhat optional...) The Stork (or Heron) mother of Suvaria is similar in appearing as a creator goddess, laying the first clutches etc. I think that the Heron Hegemony shown in the God Learner map really is a reference to Suvaria rather than to the southeastern lands of the Lozenge with their Vaybetian islanders. Early Golden Age Glorantha was full of bird peoples and bird-descended humans. It is almost as if there was a lost Birdman form rune. Esrolia has a tradition of parakeets at Ezel, too. The keets started the invasion of the land by waters when they angered Togaro, in the distant southeast. The Northeast had the Ratite Empire of bird riders and lots of bird cults, remnants of which are upheld in Rinliddi (the rest of their realm was depopulated by Valind, and conquered by the Horse Nomads along with Rinliddi and Dara Happa, and the remoter parts after Argentium Thri'ile). The Nogatending boat bird people of the Black Eel River may have been a similar such remnant, too. The Seabird Army appears as the foe of the Sofali Diroti of western Genertela. As one of their many adaptations to local cults. They also worship river gods like Engizi and Zola Fel, and they worship the deities of the land where they can hold on to possession of some of the land, as around Duck Point. They might have been lake dwellers farming on artificial or floating islands like in Lake Tenochtitlan before Delecti ruined their habitat. The Lady of the Wild aka Tara appears in the Orlanthi myths, too. Varanorlanth chases her, then Ironhoof. Tara appears to be both a daughter of Kero Fin and an aspect of Arachne Solara. (She also shares many traits with Orogeria.) The megalithic circle of Wild Temple predates Vingkotling settlement (the Sedenorvuli) in the neighborhood. We have no clues to their architects - as usual, the Gold Wheel Dancers are a convenient suspect (also for the Feldichi remains in Dorastor), or a similar group of unrelated entities of likewise archaic form and proportion. (The Grotaron are another such improbable species.) In the reborn world, the goddess contacted there is Arachne Solara. We have no idea which deity or pantheon was revered or contacted there before the establishment of the Sedenorvuli, and by whom. SurEnslib doesn't get worse press than e.g. Naveria. Unlike Biselenslib, she remains unconquered by the Green City until the Greater Darkness. Or(g)iastic rites aren't limited to Suvaria, other peasant rites of Peloria are as bad, they just lack the distinction of being picked up by an oversized beak and being swallowed. The Imarja myths (apart from the Kalevala-like Creation myth) all involve destruction, starting with the hatching of the egg that spells out the Charter of Nochet. The wyter of Nochet (and surrounding lands) is born (or reborn), and its shell provides the instructions in the prophetic script that provides layers upon layers of implicable meanings. Imarja undergoes various cycles of utuma through the agency of males, always reappearing with new insights that she teaches to her folk. (That's how she is similar to Sedenya, whose latest such experience as Rufelza has given us that nice phasing orb in the northwestern sky). Hmm. I fail to see how to mix geese and horses in Glorantha. The closest I get is the connection between Galanin and the Loon among the First Four Companions. Western horses are a different concept, and those of the north and northeast are either former hippogriffs or otherwise solar chariot steeds (from a period of mythic reality that had the sun stationary in the sky... yeah. Such a sun god needs a chariot...). Magasta's chariot horses with their sea connection might be a way. They might even fit my crackpot keet idea above. Another watery horse is the River Horse among the Water Spirits of Nomad Gods. Then there is the enigmatic shell horse, which has the function as a messenger - close enough to a speaking or oracular horse. Again, a goose connection is hard to rationalize. I usually place Krarsht with the Predark demons overcome by Umath - Chaos intruders that defy the chronology of the great Chaos intrusion. But then I am convinced that Yelm's Golden Age was only the last such cycle before Death entered the world and interrupted those cycles of Elemental rulers of the world. There is that snippet about Yelm Brighteye having to face Basko, Molandro and Jokbazi before ascending to emperorhood in the Jonstown Compendium excerpts in RuneQuest (2) Companion. And Entekosiad suggests that Brighteye wrestled guardianship of the Universe from a precursor of Sedenya. But let's play along with this for a bit. Lodril's descent into the earth and his "wrestling" there (resulting in the brass alloy) sort of predates the Gods War by more than the destruction of Umath. The reprise of this myth is when an unnamed god picks up Lodril's/Veskarthan's spear in the aftermath of the Footprint/Foulblood incident, and releases the volcano god upon impact. (IMO the creation of the Obsidian Volcano which later (or possibly then) was beheaded by Argan Argar, who then enslaved the volcano god to raise the Obsidian Palace.) Argan Argar as the spear god might be a good candidate for this myth (in case anyone is unfamiliar with this myth, Guide p.234). What is the source of the Foulblood fertility? My guess is the blood of Larnste as the ultimate agent of change, way more potent than quicksilver. The poison of the stamped creature just corrupts the change. Orlanth counters this change using the volcanic ejecta and stasis (where in the world did Orlanth get this from?), creating the Stone Forest. (To be honest, this is a feat way outside of Orlanth's core capacity. Blowing the ejecta there, no problem. Plastering them in place with thunderous rainfalls, check. Altering the forest so that it becomes immune to the rampant foul change, anything but his field of competence. Mostali aid might explain this, but remains unmentioned. Amazingly enough, there are few if any stories about Orlanth confronting the mostali. Vingkot and his successors fending off mostali constructs, plenty, but not big O himself. Neither Ernalda nor any other earth goddess gets mentioned in this myth of cooperation (if coincidental or grudging). And that when this petrification magic sounds halfway up the competence of Earth. Ho hum. So, with Earth absent from the main actors, taking the role of the downtrodden intruder is possible. I wonder where in Ezel this goddess can be found. There ought to be some dark and twisted cave...

There appears to be a group of hard-nosed practical houses (or otherwise hereditary political movements) that accept foreign male intruders as a means to harm rival houses, allowing them to rule for a while - even a few generations, like the House of Kodig, or the Hendriki Readjustment lords. Sooner or later they will rise up, slaughter the invaders (and purge their houses of sympathizers), even at the price of devastating conflict inside their own domains. Only the over-kingships of Ezkankekko and Belintar which don't challenge the Grandmothers' dictatorships are tolerated as long as the interference remains tolerable. The Grandmothers appear to be quite hostile to Arkat, despite rather short exposure to his activities in the Gbaji Wars - much less than the influence of Palangio and Lokamayadon. But then they probably had no problem with Lokamayadon suppressing the shepherds' religion and leaving their own initiatory rites of Urvarna and Demarath intact. Of course, we don't know anything about these quests and rites - the paragraphs on p.25 under "Imarja and the Eighteen Return" mainly tell us that such a quest happened, not what stations it entailed. But then we know as little about the Ivarne side of the Heortling initatory rites. Chaos Earth Queens Unrecovered lands, pieces that weren't salvaged by the Web of Arachne Solara. The map in Heortling Mythology p.108 shows the extent of annihilation much better than the God Learner Map in the Guide on p.694. I have some suspicion about Artmali-occupied lands, and possibly parts of Endernef as possible candidates, too. There is a reason why Moon wasn't much present before 1247. Unholy Trio females as Earth and Feminine Principle: Thed is the ravaged body of Earth, while Malia is the midwife. But the analogy is weak, and they sacrificed most of their former roles in order to enable the birth of Wakboth. Possible. Or the only son able to take the three Kitori forms from birth on (rather than through adoption, as the later Kitori did before breeding themselves). The Kitori shapeshifters are only a weak imitation of the demigod abilities of the Only Old One. (Demigod mainly in that he remained active under the proscriptions of the Compromise, rather than bound to the Godtime like e.g. his parents.) I wonder how much of the great squares really is open surface, and how much of it are permanent market stalls (though not permanently operated). Do the Nochet market traders migrate between squares for big market days, or are they mostly enfranchised in one of the markets? Open Air theatre without rising audience ranks will have extremely limited visibility and audibility. I remember special volume training in my school choir for a gig on an open air stage with slightly raised audience area, in order to remain somewhat audible. There aren't any speaker towers or 20 foot video screens like in Wacken. Unless Donandar provides some equivalent of this as magic, those open field spectacles work better as processions with motif wagons or palanquins. How much will such play gigs be social representation, and how much are they part of worship? A similar question goes to dance performances - Roitina ceremonies all are dance performances, right? Street entertainment will be a rather mundane affair, designed to feed the entertainers and to lighten the mood of passers-by. Sure, but the question is whether there are designated days in the holy calendars for certain types of plays. Days which ask for ribaldry and disrespect.

The Assyrians are only one of several Mesopotamian influences that enter Pelorian art direction. The great diversity of the Persian troops both in the Greek invasion (Thermopylae, Marathon...) and in Alexander's conquest is applicable to Dara Happa. These forces are the Lunar regulars - the Antelope Riders, the Marble Phalanx and the Silver Shields. Neither of which are specialized archers, though, but they could have attracted enough individuals with enough archery skill to field such a volley. Sor-eel doesn't have a complement of Field School magicians at his disposal, except possibly for a few individuals as liaison, otherwise I would have suggested that these archers, and especally the archer hero, might have come from their bodyguard. IIRC the signatory Roman legionary equipment was copied from Etruscan helmets, and also popular among the Gauls when they did not rush into battle sky-clad. The Phalanxes are credited to Daxdarius, a Pelandan king/emperor of the Gods War active around Mt Jernotius, with access to metal from the Brass Mountains. They probably predate Dara Happan (urban) cultural influence in western Peloria. The Dara Happans inherited that style of armor and weaponry when they shook off the Horse Warlords, as their ancestral Godtime armor was less advanced and probably relied more on magial concepts than actual physics. The Heartlands have a majority of non-Lunar cultists, with mainly lay membership in imperial cults, and initiation to a single cult much less guaranteed than in Heortling society. The Provinces and the two newer Satrapies (Sylila and Oraya) probably have more single cult initiates, and significantly more Lunars. Glamour and First Blessed may have higher rates of initiation, and especially to Lunar cults. The upper echelon of society and the military probably have a higher initiation rate than the rest of the populace. I get the impression that Pelorian worship consists of a lot of ecstatic worship in communal rites, especially for the Lodrili peasantry, rather than focussed worship of just one role model. Those Enverinus priesthood folk probably have to deal with rites that no proper Yelmite would wish to offiiciate, let alone participate in. The Marble Phalanx probably is rather sparsely Lunarized, stoutly old-Pelorian in its composition. I doubt that they even have the degree of Lunar monitors that you will find in less traditional Lunar regiments. The Antelope Lancers are Twin Stars followers with a good degree of Lunar worshippers among them, and the Silver Shields probably are strong in the Conquering Daughter as Lunar deity. The officer corps will of course have their share of Yanafali along with worshippers of the regimental and traditional Pelorian deities. These archers appear to be rather up to modern Lunar doctrine for magic use in battle, with that organized Firearrow volley. This might be a case of monitors coordinating the magic for the archers.

Taken out of the Guide to Glorantha discussion thread (Week 6, Mythos) as this is veering far off the original topic of the Lightbringers' Quest: The Adjustment Wars created a circumstance for some houses to profiteer from other houses' struggle against the Adjustment invaders, without subscribing to the Adjustment goals in the long run. I would dare say that pretty much the same houses now involved with the Red Earth Alliance were the ones cooperating with the Adjustment kings. My impression is that we take the combination of Ernalda and Orlanth to be fairly universal, at least for Genertela. It doesn't matter much in the west. Pamaltela may have different rules due to Pamalt still being around, except for the coasts which have Theyalan influence (if only through God Learner introduction outside of Umathela). No idea whether the Errinoru aldryami have a connection to Ernalda with Orlanth as her primary husband, or as the earth without need for a husband. I don't see a way for Ernalda or any of her existing land goddesses (including Dorasa) to be married to Chaos. Dorasa's infestation with Chaos (and that of the land goddess of Tork) came from human magics rather than from pre-Compromise divine activities, though. It might be argued that Thed is Chaotic Earth, and Malia is the female principle of Chaos. The Lunar absorption of Earth mysteries sort of blurs the borders. That's not quite the message I get, with all that durulz/goose stick going about. There are possible parallels between Sedenya and Imarja. I am trying to "date" the arrival of Imarja. The context in Esrolia - Land of the Thousand Goddesses suggests that Nochet was located at a river (possibly river mouth) when the Charter of Nochet was incubated and revealed. Contact with Imarja was limited to the six tribes. Males were present, but not involved in the decision-making, only as helpers (such as citing Lhankor Mhy as the scribe of the Charter, which is slightly conflicting with the notion that the text was already inscribed on the inside of the egg hatched by the Grandmothers). Actually, a group of widows forming a house would work quite well. All it takes is an ambitious woman of a side lineage determined to step out of the shadow of House Norinel. The twins appear to have been only the start of a string of children, once Norinel overcame her somewhat inexplicable reluctance to accept Kimantor's secrecy. Under which rules are these plays organized? Greek theatre had its holy days, but the troupes were sponsored by hoplite class nobility. I have no idea about repeat performances - probably not in the same city, and probably not by the same actors touring other cities, although it is conceivable that a hegemonial city like Athens would send a troupe of the annual performance out to its dependant cities as a demonstration of cultural superiority and a gesture of goodwill combined. The Temple of Donandar is the only big theatre in Nochet, with a capacity of maybe 10,000 spectators if crammed to the last seat or stand, from the look of the Nochet map. It wouldn't be the only place where plays are staged, though - I would guess that each Enfranchised House and all wannabe houses will have private stages for more intimate shows, and some of the guilds might have some, too. Low entertainers will have adapted those plays, or at least key scenes of these, for street performance, maybe using a tent or performing in a tavern, and use puppets, shadow-plays or similar rather than a full cast of actors.

I'm fairly certain that Arkat did not enter the Obsidian Palace - if he had seen the option of becoming a Kitori, he might have gone that way to embrace Darkness, while retaining a human shape part of the time, and that of a Dehori Shadow at others. On the other hand, his mysterious return to a human shape might have been based on this. There is another, shorter one which tells us that the Lightbringers were betrayed by the Only Old One. I could see Norinel's hand in that version. The Nochet grandmothers are obsessed with Kodig as the Bad Man, and they transfer this obsession to the Orlanth cult and to all of Kodig's male descendants. (That means their own sons, btw...) I think that the war that Rastagar's wife objected to was the Vingkotling summons to the shores of Luathela, in the last stage of the Westfaring. So basically the formation of the Esrolvuli was a rebellion against the Lightbringers' Quest. And I think that that acerbated the Nontraya problem in Nochet quite a lot. That makes Kimantor the likely victim of Eurmal. Even if this was no permanent death, the insult would be sufficient to send the Lightbringers to the dungeons. The Great Fortress is mentioned as the place where Kimantor's father lived (footnote 74). Another questionmark concerning his identiy with the ruling OOO. The missing god might as well have been Vestkarthen, the architect of the palace, who used to be chained inside. Sure - one of the rules of Heroquesting is that a deep quest rarely follows the rote ways of the story. Eurmal might be about to avenge the killing of Rastagar on the Grandmothers. oossibly Acting Grandmother, aka Ruling Queen of House Norinel. My original impression that the Grandmothers would be Crones of Asrelia or Ty Kora Tek has sort of been replaced by a deep discomfort about the Imarja cult. Basically that's the Earth cult that provide an Earth Queen to the Chaos faction in Gods War. Not sure I would overplay that Asrelia function. After all, the OOO is the son of either Asrelia or Esrola (or both). If Delargara already has taken the mantle of queenship, then her brother might very well be Eurmal's victim. The Seduction of Norinel could of course be one of the more ribald plays in Nochet. Eurmal should be able to cast a likeness of Kimantor onto himself or Orlanth (or possibly all the males Norinel encounters). Take A Midsummer Night's Dream, and turn it up to 11. Garnish with some elements of the cancan scene in Hoffmann's Erzählungen by Jacques Offenbach, no political correctness applied. Siegfried's cloak of invisibility in the interaction with Brunhilde. Merlin's alteration of Uther Pendragon at Tintagel. Zeus in various animal shapes... Niskis as surrogate husband for Orlanth during Orlanth's exile. Carry up on Cleopatra. You know the drill.

Just saw this on G+: https://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch3en/conc3en/earlyairnetworks.html

Hidden under the Tarpit since 1318, but there might be other entries from the innards of the Plateau. Blackwell might be one. And even the Blackmaw in Nochet might have a connection. There is a possibilty that the God Learners thought of this method of intruding into the Lightbringers' Quest, and anybody taking that path would have to deal with security mechanisms directed against God Learner intrusions. Which might be both a boon and a curse, since the targetting would be somewhat off, but might be erraticly on spot for personal affiliations rather than the mythical role taken by the intruders. I would assume so - see below. He took responsibility for Eurmal having killed the Son of the Dark King. Heortling Mythology gets more specific (p.117): I am not exactly sure whether Kimantor was Ezkankekko, and this son would have been the son of Kimantor and Norinel, or whether Kimantor was the son of Ezkankekko who was slain here. Anyway, this might explain why the Kitori returned as a race of adoptees rather than as a dynasty of children of the Only Old One. (And I suppose that his title OOO stems from his son and descendants being slain.) What follows is "Alone in Hell", which is where a goose feather conveys Ernalda's love to Orlanth, and sets him onto his path again. I think that Norinel would have been definitely different from Ernalda at this point - a grieving mother or widow (depending on whether Kimantor was the son, or the OOO himself) rather than the loving wife asleep deep in Asrelia's caves, manifest only through Ginna Jar. Norinel appears to be both Queen of Nochet and Grandmother by this time of her marriage to Kimantor. She would embody the misandristic aspect of Imarja, well suited to her temporary domicil in the Underworld. Hard to say, really. Orlanth and Eurmal had not taken the Obsidian stairwell, so that route wouldn't have been guarded like that. Instead, the outer approaches to the Palace from Hell (outside of the Court of Silence) would have been guarded, and Jeset might have been instructed not to accept living passengers any more. Not that Jeset being on strike means that there are no alternatives to the bridge of Janak. There might be Waertagi down there, separated from the rest of their fleet. Trickster might fell the Ellder Tree instead.

With most of the text familiar since Cults of Terror, there is another source of recurring discovery in this section - the commentary (p.123) on the depiction of the Lightbringers' Quest, on p.122. We have fairly detailed textual descriptions of the quest in King of Sartar and Heortling Mythology, after shorter ones from Cults of Prax. The stations here often have little to do with those texts, though, and the style of the depictions is different from anything else seen in the Theyalan context. This appears to be the recollection of Harmast's journey(s). Harmast is the only known individual to undergo the Full Lightbringers Quest twice, and I would wager that the second one differed significantly from his first. So, with each of this stations, the question remains whether Harmast encountered it on his first or his second quest. (And whether Harmast could tell the difference after re-emerging from the Underworld). Station 3: The Obsidian Mirror Is this another version of the Gates of Dusk? Note that there comes another mirror at station 8. Neither is mentioned in the textual versions. Station 8 is quite explicit in the Eleven Lights quest, however. Stations 6, 7: The Judge of the Dead, prior to the Bridge over the River of Swords. King of Sartar (p.59) has Janak and the bridge before you enter the Court of Silence. KoS p.72 suggests that Issaries negotiated the boat fare with Jeset the Ferryman instead, no bridge involved, but special knowledge of Lhankor Mhy involving the Elder Tree allowing the original questers to bypass the Court of Silence, it seems. Station 9: Twin newborn gods - Arkat and Talor? Time and what? Station 10: The Feast of the Dark King, at the bottom of the staircase of the Obsidian Palace. In KoS, this is followed by "Alone in Hell", one of the mystical stages of the quest. (One that is found in the Red Goddess Quest as well, with Yanafal taking the part of the Swan Feather.) I always wonder why no questers skipped the Westfaring and used the Obsidian Palace as an entryway to the Underworld. Stations 11 and 12 bear no similarity at all with the LBQ in King of Sartar - no King Griffin, and only an allusion of the Fires of Ehilm (the earliest proof of multiple suns in published Glorantha). The Hall of Dead Gods in station 13 is a lot bleaker, no Ritual of the Net, but only the casting of the web in station 14.

By earlier documents I meant e.g. Middle Sea Empire and Revealed Mythologies. The Teshnos history section on p.428 has Eest, too, and there are two more mentions in the places of interest. That index was generated more or less automatically from the machine-readable text (omitting all the (printed) text on the runic diagrams, for instance, which would deserve quite a few errata) and faithfully preserves alternative spellings.

Earlier documents have the Melib/Teshnos based duchy as "Eest".

@Darius West You appear to assume that any game system is a correct simulation of Gloranthan reality. That's not the case. There are no Magic Points or Hero Points in Glorantha. There are no Gods War victory points or action points either, nor are there Dragon Pass diplomacy points. Nor do Praxians store cattle away in corrals to become Khan of Khans.