Ian Cooper

Tribes are alliances, not contiguous areas of land. It is possible for a clan to be part of a tribe and share no border with other clans from the same tribe. However, most of the time when folks mapped the Sartarite tribes, they stuck with the simple model of showing all of them adjacent. For that reason, most of the tribes have ended up adjacent, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way.

It was a change. The Lorthing are part of the Culbrea

It certainly is for HeroQuest Glorantha. RuneQuest Glorantha might vary in how it presents certain cults etc. but we don't intend to deprecate the primary sources for this game.

It likely will be optional as it involves book-keeping. Most likely I will suggest a quick advancement method similar to today and story based advancement approach.

Some of the fan material on the Culbrea was definitely an inspiration for both Dragon Pass, and The Coming storm, including YBOT #2. I exchanged emails with folks behind that material, which itself had multiple authors that had tried to tie their work together at that time. But although it was an inspiration, and you can see the origins of the Two Pine in that material, @Jeff and I changed many details. Some names didn't feel right to our ears (although some of the older names persist as bloodlines or lost clans as a 'tip of the hat' to those authors). We also re-wrote the history of the region, which moved us quite away from material presented for Heroes of Wisdom and YBOT #2. We also changed one or two details from Dragon Pass, which @Jeff had not been involved in, and again didn't make sense with the history we wanted to tell. You should consider TCS canonical. Older sources like YBOT a source of inspiration if you have them, but are not canon. I am indebted to the creativity of those authors and you may find material there you want to use in your Glorantha. (The canon element is really only important for future Chaosium material, you can do whatever you want, and you should do whatever you want. I do). Bear in mind of course that the Hero Wars will take its toll, even in your campaign. In my house presentation of the 11L the Cinsina ended up ceding clans other than the Blueberry back to the Culbrea, and I know that we will see some changes in the 1627 Dragon Pass Sourcebook to reflect those years.

The one thing to really figure out is how 'much' advancement you want, and how the GM controls that. Let's assume you run a QW game and you play a 'season' of 6-12 sessions. And then let's assume you might want to run subsequent seasons, topping out at five or so for a campaign. We are mirroring a successful TV show at that point. Now I might assume that by the end of a season I would like to see an average of three of four abilities up by +6. Or some variation of with eight at +3 etc. One way to limit this would be to work with the idea that the GM has to consider the benefit a significant story moment to allow you to cement. The advantage here is that it prevents 'improvement hunting'. Of course, it relies on trust that the GM will move the PCs forward. The second would be to change the hp economy by varying number of points, and rollover of hp between sessions. So by giving folks 1 hp per session, but allowing them to accumulate between sessions. In a 12 session episode, 8 hp would buy you four increases at +6, with another 4 used for bumps. Then you would get additional hp for the GM cementing consequences, that you could use to buy other abilities. That might not be enough though, if the GM cemented a few consequences you wanted to buy off, so you might even want 2 hp a session. I think it needs some actual play to figure out.

Yep. Oops, may have trailed that early 😄

This is 'off the top of my head' and has no play-testing, is not fully though out yet etc. But I think it's tempting enough to put it out there, so as to think about testing the ideas and refining them.

I've never really been satisfied with how advancement is handled in HeroQuest. First, the increasing resistance is book-keeping without much dramatic effect, because in opposed d20 resolution you need modifiers of +3, +6 to really feel them. In addition, the march of resistance only really serves to stop PCs appearing to improve. In the sources HQ tries to emulate its normal for heroes to get better with respect to the opposition over the course of a book or season. When we reset the resistance it tends to be a new book or season. In addition, the correlation applies, an increase of +1 to an ability doesn't really help. Inspired by some design discussions with Ron Edwards on Cosmic Zap (these are not what Ron is proposing there, but serve as inspiration for it). I am contemplating the following change in QuestWorlds. Feedback very welcome: States of Adversity and Consequences of Defeat These are the same thing, we just keep Consequences of Defeat, but see below. Advancement Resistance does not advance with the number of sessions. It remains at the baseline of 14. If your GM plan to run several seasons, much like a TV show, they can re-baseline with the new season to provide a greater challenge. Usually a season builds a story towards a climatic conclusion, and with the next season new stories emerge. Generally, your GM should re-baseline by +3, +6 or +9 depending on how the PCs advanced in the previous season Hero Points You get 3 hero points at the beginning of a session. Unspent hero points are lost at the end of the session. You can use a hero point to bump a roll. In addition, you can use a hero point to 'cement a lingering benefit' and make the change to your ability permanent. You need to spend 1 hero point to cement a +3 benefit, 2 hero points for a +6 benefit, and 3 hero points for a +9 benefit. You can't partially cement a benefit, you need to pay for the whole benefit. You can cement any benefit any time up to the point that the GM rules it is replaced by time, or by a subsequent contest result. Your GM can give you hero points to 'cement a defeat' and make the change to an ability permanent. Your GM gives you one hero point to cement a -3 penalty, 2 hero points for a -6 penalty and 3 hero points for a -9 penalty. Because hero points are lost at the end of the session, this award should encourage you to remedy the loss by engaging in contests where you can spend the hero points to reverse the penalty, or buy new abilities that reflect the changes to your character. In all cases, the cementing of the benefit or consequence must be justified by the story being told at the table. You can also use a hero point to buy a new ability at 13, or at +1 to an umbrella keyword as a new breakout. Again, the new ability must be justified by the narrative. Do not forget that the benefits and consequences may apply to abilities other than the one used in the contest; often a relationship might be improved or worsened by a success or failure of another ability for example.

For HQG, we would recommend starting with The Coming Storm and The Eleven Lights for your Dragon Pass campaign. Advice from RQ grognards on the scenarios they enjoyed 'back in the day' are not good sign posts for how to play HQG. Once you have played that material, you should be in a better position to assess how to use older material from the Hero Wars line, or even from RQG. My summary would be that the 'setting' material from RQG supplements has value, but the scenarios have less utility. Certainly something like Apple Lane, or Snakepipe Hollow can't be played well with HQG, but you could use the concepts in a game. But RQG and HQG are different games. It is akin to the difference between Dungeon World and D&D (with HQG the former) .

Agreed, magic is different in character, and I would not want to fall into the trap of HQG players deciding that they could only have rune magic that matched RQG rune spells. The ability to improvise rune magic around the god's runes is one of the strengths of the game for me, and with no 'game balance' concerns a strong area of creativity for players. It is the kind of material that any HQG genre pack focused on a 'conversion' for a supplement or region might have to cover. My very woolly thinking is that at some point we might do a 1627+ HQG genre pack for Dragon Pass that lets you use RQG material set in that area easily by giving you cult write-ups etc. It's unlikely though that we want to retcon HQG cults for differences that appear in RQG cults. I think that would be maddening for HQG players not to have their own sources, but have to get RQG sources and convert. Campaign packs and the such would probably never end up converted, and so a book showing you how to use those would work, but I would want the HQG line to be stand-alone for those that wanted that. Hence why we will probably focus on 1625-. In addition, RQG and HQG can work in both games, but some don't translate so well. RQG scenarios that are essentially 'one big fight' don't really play to HQG's strengths, and 'skill challenges' don't play out at all well. Whilst Borderlands is a great setup for an HQG game, the scenarios would play out a little dull in an HQG game, as they are essentially just one fight after another. Or climbing a mountain. That setup would work better for HQG with different scenarios, that often relate to the matter 'in the background' for RQG such as Jezra, the mayor and Dain. The same is doubtless true the other way around, where some HQG scenarios don't play so nice for RQG players, because the 'creative' solutions that HQG PCs have are harder to allow for in RQG. Of course, part of the problem with Big Rubble for HQG was always understanding how to play out an old-school mega-dungeon like the Big Rubble in HQG. Mega-dungeon's depend a little bit on 'resource management' for the thrill of their exploration, and HQG is not a resource management game. I loved running Sandy's Puzzle Canal for RQ2, with miniatures and floor tiles, but I struggle to see how I would capture that in HQG. The Big Rubble can be part of HQG stories, such as the salt mines trip in P:GtA, but I think it is not the story in itself. So the text describing the rubble is useful, the adventures less so. For me, a principle advantage of multiple game systems is to be able to pick and choose the game that best suits the kind of campaign you want to play. (I am sure that RQ or HQ grognards will pop and say 'but you can do anything in my favorite system' but that belies the fact that different mechanics create different play experiences).

Thanks. I think any book benefits from color on who the opposition is etc.

My current thinking is that if a significant product comes out for RQG that needs HQG 'help' we will essentially do a 'HQ genre pack' for playing it.

From my point of view it is very unlikely that we would re-package as RQG. I think it is much better to fan source the NPC stats, which is really all you need to run it with RQG, as many are already.

See also, from GRoY "The planet Lightfore has always held some enigma. Its Gloranthan name is always a title, like Lightfore, and its secret name remains a secret (if it was ever known or agreed upon!) Furthermore, the story of the Young God may b etold about other deities as well.... Lightfore is now recognized by the Dara Happans to be Antirius, the “Little Sun” which remained in the darkness. They remind us that Yelm’s own consciousness was in Antirius, as well as in Bijiif, the Descender. As Bijiif descended into Hell, Antirius also descended into the Land of the Dead. These are, they say, both elements of the same Yelmic secrets." So Lightfore is definitely 'Many Suns', but particularly the sun in the darkness, so a GL would probably identity Elmal, Kargzant, Yelmalio, and Antirius as Lightfore.

No, Lightfore replaces Kargzant in the Sky according to GRoY. The heavens reflecting the triumph of Antirius over the horse barbarians. Note that elsewhere in GRoY Lightfore is described as riding Kargzant, in other words, Antirius conquers the horse-sun god. ""51. Lightfore The bright god rose and went to War against the destructive god Kargzant. At first Lightfore was timed so that he appeared exactly opposite to Kargzant, so that one rose when the other set. But slowly Lightfore drew Kargzant to him, so that his erratic movements had to come to time with Lightfore’s. Thus, in 111,111 Kargzant disappeared as a separate entity, chained to be Lightfore’s slave." Of course, this may just be another explanation for the strange movement of Lightfore (one appeared when the other set). I think it's pretty clear that Elmal at least becomes Lightfore/Antirius at some point. I think the Elmal myth, 'Elmal Guards the Stead' that provides the explanation for Lightfore's movement across the sky is key here. It is very possible though that aspects of the Elmal cult, the Anatyr cult which has him a ruler, his association as a justice bringer, even perhaps his role as a horse rider (over Beren or Ulanin) may come with DH culture, and represent some of the parts of that culture that get welded onto Elmal. But sure, Kargzant may well be Lightfore too. Many Little Suns. Lightfore seems to be seen as part of the sun, the sun in the darkness, and thus sometimes has been the only sun. DH: "See that stare Lighfore, he is Antirius, who held the throne to prepare for Yelm's return" H: "Oh we call that star Elmal one of our lights in the darkness" DH: "Did he provide protection in the darkness, whilst his lord was in the underworld too?" H: "Of course he must have done, his lord would have been Orlanth though. But hey, who would have been king with Orlanth gone. Ah, this must be a secret we don't know, about how Elmal was crowned and acted as Orlanth's steward. Antirius, we might say Anatyr in our tongue, must be the part of Elmal that ruled". DH: "And did he conquer the horse nomads too?" H: "You know, I bet he did conquer the horse." ...

Elmal is Lightfore, as is Antirius. A key part of this identification can be taken from the fact that Lighfore never enters the underworld, but appears back in the east when it reaches the western edge of the Sky Dome. Elmal explains this with the myth of 'Elmal Guards the Stead' where despite being wounded unto death, he rises again. Both Elmal and Antirius are lights in the darkness that are a 'little sun', and both have an association with justice. It is possible that the Elmal cult gained some of these associations after contact with the Dara Happan culture. So he could have gained justice bringer or Anatyr at that time. A better question is whether Yelmalio, the Cold Sun is also Lightfore and Antirius. If the GL identify Yelmalio with Elmal, they must identify him with Lightfore and thus Antirius by inference. This of course raises the question of why Elmal has no Hill of Gold myth, though it is possible that Elmal Guards the Stead is his structural equivalent, and why Elmal and Antirius have fire powers but Yelmalio does not (I suspect that may be due to his elven origins). I believe that Yelmalio is an elven perspective of Lightfore, the light in the Darkness, shorn of fire powers to be tree-friendly, who gets merged with Daysenerus, the High Sun by the elves in the First Age Bright Empire. The later GL identification of him is because all of these gods are Lightfore. But if you look at it, Yelmalio has the most truncated mythology, and doesn't really give access to the wider solar mythology, so he is an invader deity for the Heorltings. I don't buy that the cult spread beyond Peloria, where it has its main stronghold and Dragon Pass/Prax from contact with the Pelorian Orlanthi due to Empires.

I've just got back from Zim. I need to collate feedback, put out another version to reviewers etc. Progress but not there yet.

First, worry about the PCs prize mostly, the NPCs don't really matter, just adjudicate that from the results for the player. It's only in PC vs PC that the mirror relationship matters. Second, don't cripple victory. If the prize is silence the guards, that is what happens on any victory. So what is marginal as opposed to other levels. Well, of course it may not matter. When I look at the SRD I am trying to clarify that (it is stated originally) Consequences of Defeat and Benefits of Victory only need to be adjudicated if you think interesting story options flow from ongoing implications of the contest. So perhaps you decide that you can up the tension by having the guards quickly missed because they don't report in at the end of their rounds on a marginal victory, and have the alarm raised when the PCs are still not out etc. But maybe you decide that isn't important and just treat victory as done and move on. The idea behind 'bringing down the pain' is this. Extended contests tend to produce more conclusive results as PCs can use more hero points, parting shots etc. So if at the end of the simple contest the PCs lose, or don't get everything they wanted (say that they had graduated goals) you can turn it into an extended contest. Look for a player trying to steal the jewels responding to you fail to kill the guards, with 'ok I will sneak back later etc'. We don't allow repeat attempts, so just treat the first simple contest as the first round of an extended contest whose goal is to steal the jewels over chaining simple contests together

But of course, if you don't declare it as a breakout i.e. you assume it is part of the Umbrella keyword it will be at the same rating i.e. the Death rune includes Sword Fighting. Hence the at least. In addition, the rule here seems to be that for a Humakti there is a specific option to augment this breakout from the keyword with the keyword. But, you can interpret any way that makes sense to you.

I'm not sure of the original intent, but I would suggest (1) Treat Sword Fighting as a breakout ability from the Death Rune (2) Allow the Death Rune to augment Sword Fighting even though it is a breakout.

The significant problem for Yelmalio is that IMO he doesn't work well 'within the clan'. The clan chieftain is the high priest of Orlanth, a clan member has to 'obey chosen leaders' and that means that within a normal clan (one without some sort of Solar rites) Yelmalio is subservient to Orlanth. That does not seem to be in-keeping with the perspective of the cult that it sees itself as a rival to Orlanth (and for Ernalda's hand in marriage). It's conservatism on gender roles also seems problematic within normal Orlanthi society. The Elmal cult is similar to Heler, in that it has a mythology that allows his worshipers to be 'loyal' to Orlanth and thus work within the clan. Even the Humakti have their re-sheathing rituals to exist within the clan. So wherever Yelmalio appears in the clan, I think it will lead to conflict between the Orlanthi leadership and the Yelmalians. For both the Orlanthi and the Yelmalians 'exiling' them to their temple-fortresses, with their helots working in the fields, makes more sense as a social structure. To my mind Yelmalio is Antirius/Lighfore 'outside the clan', part of Orlanthi society but separate from it. Elmal is Antirius/Lighfore within the clan, the 'loyal thane' who is able to accept Orlanth's leadership. And yes, he even has rites to rule if Orlanth is absent. So those 1000 Elmali in Sartar are the sun-worshipers you meet in the clan, those possessed of the Fire rune (http://www.glorantha.com/forums/topic/the-many-suns-and-the-nature-of-polytheism/). it's probably a few clans with significant bloodlines of Elmali (say ten or so clans with 50-100 worshipers) and the others scattered Elmali households. I doubt even the Runegate triaty has 'full Elmal' clans, just significant bloodlines. I suspect that many of them see Monrogh as the 'Teller of Lies' who tempted Elmal into believing he could rule in Orlanth's Stead in the darkness, and those that have converted to Yelmalio as having failed the test of steadfastness. Perhaps they can be saved. Whereas by numbers the Yelmalio worshippers are pretty much in the Sun Dome Temple (unlike Pavis none of the Sartarite cities we have seen so far have a Sun-Dome temple). I suspect they see the Elmali as having been 'colonized' by the Orlanthi religion, and 'rule takers not rule makers' to coin a phrase.

Sure, but since WB&RM they have been pikemen not cavalry.

The SRD will doubtless be out first. It's probably HQ 2.2 (Core is 2.0 and HQG 2.1). So not a huge change, just tweaks and a slightly different presentation. We will doubtless get feedback on that. We'll then mesh that with the flavor text, advice and examples to make a new core book. It will also have some example genre packs in it.

SRD is in progress. I am hoping to get a copy for review out to some folks in the next few days, before going wider. Ron Edwards is making progress on his supers project: http://adeptplay.com/actual-play/good-morning-starshine