Ian Cooper

Share yours, someone else might like to borrow them

I don't think canon really records that much. In essence, The Coming Storm has created canon through publication here. I was aware of Rain Blossom from the Blue Boar heroquest, and included them in the write up in Dragon Pass, Land of Thunder. I'm not aware of anything in the various bits of apocrypha from Greg that otherwise name any of the clans. But otherwise you can pretty much make them up, which is what I did.

HeroQuest Glorantha, p.222 "The Bronze Age elements of Glorantha are a good source of color for the Game Master and players. Bronze armor is as much about (if not more) about displaying status as it is about protection. Buildings are often brightly (even garishly) painted. Wine and other liquids are not stored in barrels but ceramic amphorae, which are sometimes decorated with painted designs or ornamentation."

I'm told it should be on Chaosium and Drivethru. Possible that its not the right version. Can you check again for me and let me know?

Let me talk to the team

Brass outside dwarf tunnels is I think problematic too, as its a later invention, around 500BC. I think its a secret of the mostali.

So I would always be careful with art. Not all the artists are Gloranthan experts. The editor doesn't always go through and remove all the technology that isn't time period appropriate etc. We do the best job we can but... Hell, art gets reused for financial reasons, so we have AS looking Orlanthi in The Eleven Lights in places, because we reused some earlier art even though their look had been redefined by HeroQuest Glorantha and The Coming Storm. Given the history of publishing, you have to react to what something like the Guide says, over detecting clues elsewhere. And anyway, that Goldentongue Merchant who purchased those barrels from the Dwarf of Dwarf Run, swears to me that he got his monies worth. BTW Without Iron bindings (bronze would not work) then a barrel would be bound with wooden withies from top to bottom. The barrels depicted in that Swenstown scene are bound with iron - making them tremendously expensive examples of dwarf work. They must contain some sort of alchemical substance purchased from the dwarf, to make such expense wortwhile

Yes, IIRC Greg's answer at that time made them equivalent to a Buddhist prayer wheel: a sacred offering to Orlanth that turns in the wind, a tradition of the Old Wind Temple. "Daddy, daddy, buy me the cute little windmill with the blue top, and that I can put there for Orlanth to remember Uncle Koschei when he blows'. The larges ones the efforts of whole clans: 'We cannot wipe away the stain of Kinstrife, but when Orlanth's wind moves these sails we hope he will think to favor us still.' But, importantly, they not connected to axles and gears, and no one uses them to turn the wind into mechanical power to grind corn.

Your call. If I want to shift my players back into the ancient world, I find that having the wine arrive in amphorae, and be poured as a resin into a krater, then mixed with water before being drunk, reminds people that they are in a 'swords and sandals' setting. If I just serve them a tankard of ale from a barrel, they might as well be in the Prancing Pony in Bree. But, as I say. Some of this has happened because older material often pitched Glorantha as a 'Dark Ages' setting despite that use of bronze. Post Hero Wars material shifted it to a much more ancient world setting. So whilst once the Greydog Inn served ale by the barrel, I suspect it now serves wine by the krater. Still YGWV, so whatever you prefer.

You usually have better sources than me. I was going off this era 300BC: https://www.gaugegroup.com/insights/woodturning

You're right, my data on that looks suspect and probably Eurocentric

I think this conversation has a lot of issues we need to deal with. First, its a little hard to retrofit historical dates onto Glorantha. This is because various analogues have been used by writers over time, depending on their familiarity with archeology/anthropology and history. The technology of Runequest had chainmail (about 3rd century BC) for example, and seems to be at least Late Iron Age. Although this was different, slippage began. Because of familiarity, a lot of writers drew on Dark Ages models. Greg used the Anglo-Saxons heavily in various early in-house games as a model for Sartar, (probably influenced by Pendragon) and Charlie Krank had a medieval West. RQ3 Vikings had us all playing Orlanthi as Vikings, coupled with illustrations in the Genertela boxed set. The Dara Happans always seemed to be Babylon, Sumer or even Assyria, but Greg had the Lunar Empire's best analogue as Sassanid Persia for a while: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasanian_Empire and we drift towards the Dark Ages once again. So the notion that Glorantha is Bronze Age technically, as well as metallurgically, has always been 'more honored in the breach' than the observance. I think that Hero Wars was actually the first attempt to roll that back. For example, Thunder Rebels, with a close reading, has many indications of portraying an earlier culture. The burial customs are clearly Urnfield culture ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urnfield_culture) and the formal battles with champions, etc. are something out of Homer over the Dark Ages. If you take of your Dark Ages blinkers when reading, then TR is clearly Late Bronze Age/Early Iron Age. Since then, the steady embrace of 'Bronze Age' as a defining characteristic of the world, separate from pseudo-medieval fantasy, has grown. I actually think the diverse Urnfield culturs is a nice model for the Orlanthi, with some Greek and Atlantic Bronze Age thrown in. See this map (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urnfield_culture#/media/File:Europe_late_bronze_age.png) That would put the Orlanthi as Late Bronze Age. Given that is our most detailed culture, I would let that set the standard: late Bronze/early Iron. Urnfield culture is 1300-750BC. I would assume that. With elements of Halstatt C and D in the more advanced areas (800 -475) it's roughly the same period as the Greek Dark Ages, the collapse of Troy, the Sea Peoples etc. Hittite civilization is collapsing but relevant for influence, as well as the last days of the Mycenearns, but I might suggest they are both 'earlier' ages than the Third. It's also the era of the Middle and Neo-Assyrian Empires. 'Homeric' era conflict seems to fit fairly well with Glorantha right now. One thing Jeff and I looked at again and again when discussing the Orlanthi was that in Genertela distances are not huge. Apart from the period of the Inhuman Occupation, after the cultures of the First Age meet, they are in close proximity, such that it is unlikely one group or another has gained significant technical advantage and held it, so even if we assume the Lunar Empire is more advanced, I can't see it being much further into the Iron Age. Most likely more parts of the Empire have access to Early Iron Age technology. Of course, there is no printing press, no easy transmission of ideas. So it's reasonable to assert that because this thing exists in this city here, it does not mean it will exist elsewhere. Or that innovation cannot be made, die with those that hold the secrets, be recovered later etc. Advance is not a straight line. The crane may have been invented, lost, re-invented many times. The LM cult obviously tries to work against this, but its acquisition of knowledge may not be coupled to application of knowledge. You can record how to make pullies etc. but someone has to seek the knowledge from the temple that holds it in the first place. There are anachronisms of course, but I think we use the dwarfs to account for most of them. The dwarfs seem to have Late Iron Age technology, I would put them at the Roman Empire at its height waterproof concrete, glassware etc. Some of that has been traded to people, most famously crossbows. I suspect most chain mail shirts were made by dwarfs and are priceless, whereas the dominant mail otherwise is scale. Other anachronisms such as mid-to-late Iron age sailing vessels could be explained by Dormal etc. I don't think that magic has the impact some commentators suggest, with a kind of magic powered agricultural revolution possible, outside of the West. Two things stand against this: First, whilst sorcerers try to exploit the divine, elsewhere it is sacred and needs to be used with respect, summoning an water elemental is communing with the divine, not the mechanism to talk power your mill; Second , most magic in Glorantha makes you better at something. So yes. Glorantha has better yields etc. but I don't think that mecho-magical technology exists in widespread form. However, sorcerers are exploiters, so it's possible there is more of this in the west. But outside of the Second Age I would be wary of Zistorite devices, it doesn't feel like its part of the setting. Things I think we don't have: Glass (except faience) Barrels Lathe Potter's Wheel Spinning Wheel Rotary Quern But, I think most folks do fine by just playing 'ancient world' thinking 'sword and sandals' epic and not sweating all these details

I'm sure you all saw the announcement over in the Glorantha forum, but just in case: New at Chaosium.com - THE ELEVEN LIGHTS in full color hardback! The Eleven Lights is a Gloranthan campaign set in Dragon Pass, taking the PCs as members of the Red Cow clan from the Occupation in 1618 through to the Liberation from the Lunar Empire in 1625. It features 20 complete adventures and many more outlines, and is a companion to The Coming Storm (also available from Chaosium). This product is for HeroQuest Glorantha, but can be easily adapted to RuneQuest as well. Available from our USA, UK and Australian warehouses. You can trade in those vouchers now...

Be aware it is an 'earlier' set of days. It's influenced more by the Anglo-Saxon model of the Orlanthi, that Greg had used for a while. I think a closer reading of Thunder Rebels would have shown HW had already undergone an Iron Age/Bronze age shift, I viewed it through the AS lens of earlier times. Now I would look much more to the Iron Age. In addition, some of the ideas about the Maboder - no cattle only farming etc. are not reflected there. You don't 'cattle raid' the Maboder. Their wealth is in grain. It's possible they are even mostly vegetarian/pescatarian to avoid the issue of the Telmori raiding them for livestock. They might raid the neighbors for cattle for feasts/holy days but would sacrifice them fairly immediately.

Yes!

We are trying to revive Wyrm's Footnotes, the Chaosium house magazine, so some of the cut material will make it's way out via that route instead. If time permits I can probably look at some of my notes from playtest campaigns and see if anything is of good enough quality to 'liberate'. It's a balance between getting that into a good form and working on new stuff. But I hear you.

Some tropes; Barbarian: Orlanthi mercenary but Beserker: Storm Bull Slightly different: Heler or Elmal Paladin: Closest is a Humakti (but they are also the stone-cold killer as @Dimbyd says Thief: Orlanthi thief Ranger: Orlanthi or Odaylan hunter, maybe even a Yinkini Cleric: Ernaldan, could be a healer, could also be a support magician delivering buffs. Magic User: Doesn't really have an equivalent as everyone uses magic. Arcane sorcerors in towers are not really part of the setting. Could be a LM scholar as suggested above, or just a devotee of a god like Ernalda or Orlanth who has all their points in their runes and uses magic to solve problems over their occupational keyword. Occupation might be Priest. Druid: Probably an Odayla devotee/priest, perhaps a shaman of Kolat Monk: Doesn't quite fit, but the primary folks focused on martial arts are the Humakti, though its all about swords. Bard: The closest is an Issaries merchant here (there is a player's god, but its obscure and not found in the Red Cow). I might also opt for a Yinkini if you like playing the 'face-man' of the group who charms everyone. As you can see the primary way to distinguish a character in Glorantha is cult, or a cult + occupation combo. Even within that, players spending more points on some runes over others might emphasize one side over another, so you might have two Orlanthi, but one is about Movement the other Air.

Great advice. Also, if you can get hold of the computer game King of Dragon Pass and play a few turns together it's a fantastic introduction to playing in an Orlanthi clan. I'll look out one of my typical characters and handouts and upload to help

We have plans along these lines. It's likely we will be ready to announce more at UK Games Expo

Have you seen this resource btw. It is a little out-of-date but still useful: http://www.glorantha.com/docs/heroquest-voices/

Some advice: I have done some short introductions to Glorantha that go like this, and then got playing. HQG has broad enough keywords and abilities that figuring out the detail can wait. Encourage the players to just pick distinguishing characteristic + occupational keyword and three runes for the first session, using the as-you-go approach. Leave space to add stuff as they know more. Glorantha: Is a cube floating in a sea, with a sky dome overhead and an underworld below, a bubble floating in formless chaos. It is an Ancient World setting: think Troy, the Odysssey, the Tain, Beowoulf the Norse and Greek myths. It is the world that our Bronze and Iron Age ancestors thought they lived in filled with gods, and magic. Myth: In the mythic past the gods squabbled. This weakened the divine order and chaos invaded Glorantha and nearly destroyed the world. The Lightrbingers quested to the Underworld to bring back the Sun and restore divine order and end the ages of the gods and begin the ages of man. Genertela: The northern continent was badly blasted in the war, whole stretches are now wasteland. Dragon Pass: The northern continent of Genertela is divided by a mountain range called the Rockwoods. Few passes exist through the mountains, one is Dragon Pass. Here the cultures of Peloria - Sun and now Moon worshippers - have clashed with the cultures of Maniria and the Holy Country - Storm worshippers - for generations. Sartar: Sartar is a kingdom of Storm worshiping barbarians recently invaded by the moon worshipping Lunar Empire from the North. Some of the barbarians collaborate with the Empire, and the riches it brings, even turning to worship of the Moon Goddess, others continue to resist the occupation. The Orlanthi: Fractious barbarians whose worst enemy is their neighbors, and the occupying Lunar Empire. Pick some analogues that they might be familiar with for a clan based society, that feuds with their neighbors, steals each others cattle etc. Scottish Highlanders, Germanic tribes (Vikings, Anglo-Saxons), Gauls/Irish or even Cimmerians from Conan. They are not 'exactly that' but it is fine to get started, and many of the designers used those tropes for years (Greg drew heavily on AS models for a long-time because he was also working on Pendragon). For a new group, you can hold off on a lot of the Red Cow background for the first few sessions, and then begin to drip feed it in later. Just describe the clan ring - those are the important folk who set the tone of the clan, everyone knows them. Maybe pick a half dozen other NPCs at most to begin with, include some members of the Lunar garrison for example . Put them on a piece of paper so the players can see who the movers and shakers are. 'The Missing' is designed to introduce the players to the clan, and their chief rivals, the Emerald Sword. Although it's linear, it is supposed to be 'training wheels' for the setting, with plenty of NPCs to offer guidance and help, despite being incapacitated with illness. Magic is tricky by comparison to some games, because you want folks to make it up. What I usually do though at cons is give each player a handout that copies the typical magic for the runes shared with the god as outlined in S:KoH and the keyword description from S:KoH for their keyword. I also include a few paras on the background. Don't try to own all the 'detail' at once, introduce it piece-by-piece. PS It's fine to copy a few pages of this sort of material for in-game handouts btw

Thanks, this is all useful. We hope to have a couple of projects that will help address these underway in the next few months. We probably won't announce anything much else before UK Games Expo

So we have had a number of editions of the game: Hero Wars, HeroQuest 1e, and HeroQuest 2.0 and 2.1 (HeroQuest Glorantha). Without getting into flame wars, by critiquing what other miss, I wondered if folks wanted to talk about what they miss from older editions of the rules, that we dropped as part of the evolution of the game. Do you miss AP-based extended contests with edges? Do you secretly long for fixed resistances again? Please do explain why, but please don't challenge other posters or editions. Just say positively why you miss something.

When I worked on Dragon Pass, Land of Thunder I used the Carpathian Mountains, particularly Transylvania as the source for the flora and fauna etc. of the Pass. Romania, with its mountains and proximity to the Black Sea, is actually a pretty good analogy for Dragon Pass and the Holy Country IMO. Their pre-history is also an interesting intersection of European cultures, much like the influeces we draw on for Sartar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_Transylvania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottomány_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age_in_Romania

The Book of Red Cow was my first foray into the Red Cow clan, both as a writer and a GM, because I became fascinated by the destruction of the Maboder. I chose to play through that with my players members of their neighbors, the Red Cow. Later I wanted to play out the Sartar Rising struggle and moved the campaign timeline forward, and that became the kernel of The Coming Storm. @Jeff had a big influence at this point, and we moved some things away from the presentation that we had in the Book of Red Cow. So that information supersedes the Book of Red Cow where they conflict, though much of the information on the Maboder triaty is usable. The key ideas are on p.57 with the Maboder picking up arable farming etc. and the differences as to how their fall occurs under Kathelranda.They are from survivors of all the clans decimated by the Telmori, but not one whole clan (as many of those end up also forming part of the Red Cow, Dolutha or Torkani clans). It is best to think of them as anyone who saw Mabodh as the 'strong leader' they should rally to, with her plan of abandoning cattle, pigs and sheep for grain. They may even have taboos about eating meat etc. and be vegans. I would think they are mixed to origin as a result, but most of the clans here have a 'fictive' history derived from various predecessors. The Cinsina are predominately Axe Orlanthi though, so it seems quite likely that those are present. It seems quite possible some could claim ancestry and protection from clans in that area. Some survivors of the massacre do avoid becoming slaves in Wulfsland, see the 'Daughters of Mabodh' and in particular Enastara the Red on p.125 of The Coming Storm. They may or may not considers themselves Daughters of Mabodh. This would depend on whether their intent was to free their enslaved kin (yes) or just abandon them (no).