EricW

I think of Shamen like someone who spends all their time on the phone, only half their attention on their surroundings- bumping into stuff, talking to people nobody else can hear, reacting to jokes nobody else shares, occasionally useful information like “a bunch of people just got murdered by Broos a bit further down the road” If a Shaman wanders into town, and they seem friendly, the only problem might be the local Shaman. Though if they stay longer than a day or two people might get worried and ask why, wonder if there was a plague or other calamity on the way.

Of course, in a world as mythically malleable as Glorantha, I would argue that there must be a visitable version of events where trickster seduced Barb Gor, even if it isn't explicitly spelled out in canon. A lot of people here obviously believe in this version of events. Why would Glorantha be any different? 😉

I’m glad you’re all blaming @Darius West for this c*ckup. Excuse me, I need to visit a shrine to replenish my magic 😉

If getting wasted with someone then waking up in the morning in bed together with a rather indeterminate memory of how you got there always counts as rape, I think a lot of us are in big trouble. Interpreting Barb Gor's encounter with Trickster as rape seems a little harsh. If Barb Gor thought Trickster raped her, surely there would be a cult requirement "kill any trickster you meet". Instead she kind of has a soft spot for the nasty little imp. In a sense Trickster taught her how to take a break from being a 24x7 killing machine - something she was desperate to learn.

The closest to wire mother would be Barb Gor surely? The death goddess who caught the axe Zorak Zoran plunged into her mother’s womb? Bijiif existed because the emperor was dead, and having a big sulk. The Earth never quite died, Barb Gor saved her EDIT - of course there might be a variation in which the Earth DID die…

Obviously YGGMV, but I guess it all hinges on how many Gloranthans are like PCs, bristling with magic and martial skills, vs how many are just civilian bystanders. How many times have you rolled a few stats then discarded the character as unviable? Yet in Glorantha you have to assume there are lots of clumsy low powered weaklings wandering around, the kind of people who are described by scrunched up character sheets, who would never make it as an initiate. In well ordered societies, and I include Orlanthi societies, such people receive a measure of protection. But when order breaks down, like during a foreign occupation, not so much.

Remember a lot of people are lay members of whatever cult is in charge, so they aren’t under major cult strictures to behave. There would be no need for Barb Gor if women were always well treated. Someone who makes a habit of “chaotic” acts like rape or kin murder still only has a small chance of being infected with chaos. A much bigger chance of being hunted and killed by vengeful clan members, or a scary red head with a big axe.

I think the powers Subere offers would pretty much be incomprehensible to all but the greatest heroes, and even they would struggle to grasp her secrets. Look at what Argarath had to do to penetrate her realm - a LBQ which shook the universe, when the gods couldn't deliver on their promises, then a deeper quest when he finally reached the realm of Subere, and discovered a path to the private hell of Sedenya. Or the original stealing of death, and all the trouble that caused. Subere is surely the goddess of unknown unknowns - the secrets so hidden in the dark only the greatest heroes even think to look for them.

Isn’t there a Barbeester Gor cult obligation to kill men who make a pass? Or something like that 🙂

Hilarious - if Barbeester Gor captures a trickster on high holy day, he has to give her all his money and mind the bratty kids while the girls party. But he is under a cult obligation to teach them bad habits

Sedenya doesn’t offer “chaos feature”, she offers “chaos gift”, with a small risk of “wild chaos”. She even offers DI to choose exactly which chaos feature. The Lunars also hunt vampires and Thanatari, except they are training a secret vampire legion. IMO this suggests control, control, an unprecedented effort to control.

A new hero cult waiting to be discovered?

Sedenya takes life far too seriously. She accepts chaos, but only when she can control it. Trickster isn't even in control of himself, let alone others...

Ah but the God Learners in Slontos did try to power game Trickster, and it didn't exactly work out for them. A trickster who successfully exploits their power the way you describe verges on being a threat to the compromise, or as Eurmal would see it, a chance to have some real fun. Illumination doesn't protect you when the compromise is threatened and the gods awaken, as the God Learners and Lunars discovered the hard way. And there is no cannon description I'm aware, of Lunars attempting to exploit Eurmal's power. Perhaps they realised it was too dangerous, the powers awakened by a Trickster great temple would be more of a threat to people in the immediate vicinity than towards enemies in a hypothetical future engagement. And of course an illuminate does not have to be Gbaji; I think just as Oddi the Keen decided to uphold honour, an illuminated Trickster could still enjoy a harmless prank or two, yet still respect their calling enough to honour the strictures of their cult. Ultimately Trickster agreed to help Orlanth, because with the entire world falling apart around him, and a very long list of angry people chasing him, there didn't seem to be any alternative. Even an illuminated trickster could reach the conclusion he had to do something to help, especially in the third age.

I don't think Trickster is allowed to take on chaos features or join chaos cults, so there is some difference between being a trickster and being an illuminate. Though it is interesting that riddlers are frequently referred to as tricksters. And they are still subject to punishment from Eurmal if they do something really naughty - I mean, would Trickster pass up even once on the chink in the compromise which allows gods to mess with mortals when one of their followers breaks cult strictures? I think not! There is one aspect of Eurmal which is pretty close to being a chaos god, the version of Eurmal which stole death, then started passing death around for laughs. Perhaps Illuminated tricksters essentially worship this aspect of Eurmal. But I don't think Eurmal is Gbaji - except maybe when he wants to be.

The only real limit on Tricksters is they have to obey the light bringer summons, when a prank goes too far and the compromise is threatened. Illumination liberates Trickster from having to clean up the mess. An illuminated Trickster would be living proof that illumination is chaos.

I find it intriguing that Ralzakark also returned in multiple guises. Maybe this is just something which tends to happen when illuminates who performed many contradictory heroquests are resurrected - sometimes the aspects which in life were bound into one entity each take on their own physical form.

Any spider Hsunchen? If not, is a spider hsunchen hero cult a possibility?

If the dwarfs were responsible for the sun stop, does this mean there is a dwarf somewhere who knows the spell “stop time”?

The Black Cloud was a story published in 1957, about a vast cloud of interstellar dust approaching the solar system. But the story takes an interesting twist when scientists discover the cloud is sentient. Its not a classic mythos story - no creeping horror, or dark alleyways, or repellent people with webbed fingers. But it does have people going insane, risking everything to touch the infinite, global geopolitical power plays, and the hint of a mystery beyond even the incomprehensible vastness of an immense being composed of gas and dust. So I think it deserves a long overdue place in the annals of the mythos. The author Fred Hoyle is an interesting person - although far less well known than greats like Einstein, he did groundbreaking scientific work on the nucleosynthesis of stars, performing the extraordinary feat of predicting the abundance of elements formed from the debris of supernova explosions well in advance of detailed observations. He didn't always get it right - his scientific reputation was somewhat tarnished by his support for the Steady State theory of cosmology, an early rival to the big bang theory. Or who knows - maybe he just saw things that others missed, and we just never understood what he was trying to explain.

I like the idea of cultists sometimes not realising they’ve switched allegiance, so Orlanthi degenerating into Gargarth, particularly brutal Storm Bulls degenerating into Uraini. Kind of one spirit of reprisal too many, then something else slides into the spiritual vacuum and the lost soul feels relief they have a new understanding with their god, who is no longer being so harsh on their transgressions. This could lead to all sorts of craziness, like Uraini who still think they worship Storm Bull, operating under the delusion their insane murderous impulses are because they “sensed chaos”. Or Gargarthi murdering kin because they believe the kin are all traitors to Orlanth, they’re hunting traitors. Adds a glorious tinge of additional insanity to people who are by most definitions already insane. Even more fun, their sincere delusion might convince PCs to help them, all the while their murderous paranoia about strangers is a ticking bomb which could erupt any moment. The Gargarthi could even say issue a lightbringer summons to the PCs - because the Gargarthi still thinks he is an Orlanthi. How long does it take for the PCs to figure out something is terribly wrong?

I love it - Chaos at the heart of dwarven society, as they work magic to cause a new sun stop. What happens when one of them manifests a chaos feature? Consider it a radiation injury, allow them to continue working after they chop off the new tentacle?

The god time wasn’t in stasis before time, it just didn’t have a well defined sequence of events. Many contradictions could all be true. I suggest this means the devil was crushed under the block, yet he also defeated Stormbull, or squirmed out and escaped his confinement. Time IMO keeps the devil trapped, by imposing strict cause and effect, locking the world into a well defined narrative which led to the birth of time, where the devil was unambiguously defeated and trapped - at least from the perspective of people living inside time.

Absolutely - I'm not suggesting HP Lovecraft made an attempt to copy the real ancient Dagon religion. Just commenting on the oddness of reality mimicking art 😉

From Wikipedia; More where that came from. Most of HP Lovecraft's gods did not have a basis in accepted history, but at least going by the Wiki entry, Dagon is different - a strange and terrible half fish half man god which for a time was a serious competitor with Abrahamic religions. Something to think about next time you watch the movie Dagon.