EricW

The future. As technology advances, human knowledge edges ever closer to revelation and madness. The most advanced AIs, driven by unfettered corporate greed, and a desperate, amoral hunger to maintain their company’s razor thin technological lead, are beginning to penetrate the mysteries, to piece together the true nature of the universe. Corporate assassins and violent psychotics roam the streets, frequently augmented with stolen or experimental military implants. The darkest corners of the immersive 3D successor to the internet require a san check. … The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom. … “The Call of Cthulhu” by HP Lovecraft

There are examples in HP Lovecraft stories, of people who performed incredible feats while in the delirium of temporary insanity. One of my favourites is "Under the Pyramids", which Lovecraft co-wrote with the famous stage magician Harry Houdini, about a supernatural being who takes offence at a stage magician character's mockery of his art. The main character sees something which sends him temporarily insane, and in his delirium he does the impossible, finds his way out of the horrific catacomb in which he has been imprisoned, hundreds of feet beneath the Sphinx in Egypt. The point is, the characters who perform these feats are not in their right mind when they do these things, and rarely retain a clear memory of what happened. So arguably the player should not be fully in control of their character in such circumstances.

One thing which comes through clearly on HP Lovecraft's books is mythos characters are usually highly dysfunctional, focussed on their own problems rather than taking over the world, or both. They're vulnerable, or should be - once you know who they are. The villagers in "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" mostly just wanted to be left alone, so they could finish metamorphosing into Deep Ones. They tried to conceal their secret and discourage contact. The last thing they wanted was a fight - they all expected to live forever, and you don't get to live forever if you start gunfights all the time. Old man Whateley and Wilbur Whateley from The Dunwich Horror - they came the closest to being world conquerors. But Old man Whateley was senile, and Wilbur was struggling to pass for human. Maybe if Old Man Whateley had tried his plot when he was younger - but there were still missing pieces to his knowledge. Maybe he didn't know how when he was younger. Robert Suydam in the Horror at Red Hook - he sought immortality and power through necromancy. But in the end something went badly wrong. The hero Malone noted "He would often regard it as merciful that most persons of high intelligence jeer at the inmost mysteries; for, he argued, if superior minds were ever placed in fullest contact with the secrets preserved by ancient and lowly cults, the resultant abnormalities would soon not only wreck the world, but threaten the very integrity of the universe.". But smart people mostly aren't put in contact with the mythos. And we have another clue why it generally doesn't work out, even when they are. The one account we have of when lots of people delved into the mythos in a short period of time was the period following the publication of the Necronomicon, in H P Lovecraft's "The History of the Necronomicon". I surmise there is this period between someone beginning to lose their mind to the mythos and mastering some really bad magic, when they are vulnerable. People mostly don't tolerate the kind of behaviour "terrible attempts" entails. Even after they master bad magic they are vulnerable - the mad Arab was killed by his own magic, or perhaps by a rival, who knows. Other sorcerers like the old witch in "The Dreams in the Witch House", she lived in an attic kidnapping children - not someone who seemed particularly active attempting to conquer the world. Or Crawford in "From Beyond", the Church of Starry Wisdom in "The Haunter of the Dark" both seemed so fascinated by their dark knowledge, they had no interest in the human world, other than perhaps a source of victims. My point is if you fight the mythos head on, you're mostly going to lose. But the human antagonists generally are not Professor Moriarty orchestrating a fiendish plot of exquisite cunning, they are usually unbalanced madmen who are totally out of their depth, messing with evil powers they cannot comprehend. So if players stick to figuring out the identity of the perpetrator and burning their house down when they aren't surrounded by servitors, or when their god is not sitting on the altar behind them, they should have a pretty good chance of surviving - and are following a well worn tradition which has served mankind since the mad Arab wrote his book all that time ago.

I think I read somewhere some trolls can transform into humans? Are the Hsunchen out there who worship transforming into humans? That could make for a fun scenario.

"What do you mean I've got to throw this ring into the volcano?!" 😉

Whatever best serves the plot. I love HPL's story The Hound, which centres around a dangerous amulet - the stealing of which triggers a series of horrible events, which would likely not have ceased even if one of them attempted to destroy the amulet - or maybe it would. Or you have artefacts like the glowing trapezohedron from The Haunter of the Dark, which likely can't be destroyed by any human agency, though maybe it could be buried in concrete or something. I certainly wouldn't want to breath in the dust if you tried to destroy an amulet by hitting it with a hammer. Ditto the smoke if you threw it into a fire. Maybe the amulet in one piece traps the malign influence in one place, prevents it from spreading. Imagine the amulet is made of radioactive material - attempting to destroy it might spread the contamination, make it impossible to escape the effect. Imagine carrying a piece of the amulet in the form of dust in your lungs or splinters inside your body forever. Lots of options.

Glorantha has other worlds, and has strange and terrible realms like wherever the gate of Banir led to, and the Red Goddess' private hell, which may or may not be part of Glorantha proper, but is incredibly difficult to reach, without the help of the Goddess. And of course there is wherever the dragons hang out, Arkat's stead, various places of preparation or waiting, and hideous places like the Plateau of Terror, which may or may not be accessible by some path. So I suggest Gloranthan Canon is already brushing the edges of a Moorcockian multiverse. You could argue these different realms are all part of the Gloranthan underworld or whatever, but isn't that just code for saying "I don't know where it is"? Surely describing all the other places as part of the underworld is just what surface world dwellers say about strange and terrible realms which they cannot properly describe, which they know only by whispered rumour and the rantings of madmen, and which they likely will never visit in person ;-).

No, I'm not suggesting any of those events were due to OAE. What I'm suggesting is given the history of what happened when new things entered Glorantha, a group of people who deliberately venture outside Glorantha in order to bring back new things, even if that is just new knowledge, is probably not an activity which will have a happy ending.

@PhilHibbs I think speculation on who the outer atomic explorers are is reasonable in a thread which asks who and what the outer atomic explorers are 😉 If they are fools who venture outside of Glorantha, then if they bring a piece of the outside inside, whether that be knowledge or a physical artefact, how can that be a good thing? I'm sure if they try hard they might find a new pseudo-cosmic egg, or a special way of mixing different magics, or a new rune.

What happens if Etyries stands in for Issaries in a lightbringer heroquest? Or even stands in for Orlanth? Does it work? Or does it go horribly wrong in some way?

I agree berserking isn’t an ideal choice in terms of game mechanics , but given all the descriptions of rampaging chaos armies in the greater darkness it seems odd chaos doesn’t have access to at least one divine battle frenzy spell. There was a non canon description of Urain which made a case I liked, that other religions berserk fury had a purpose, while for chaos berserk fury was the purpose. So a chaotic mockery of Storm Bull’s righteous wrath.

Exactly - hatred of life, willingness in some cases to sacrifice self in the cause of ruin, seems like a good fit for a battle frenzy spell. I'm not dissing Storm Bull, all I'm suggesting is there should be a chaotic mockery of Storm Bull's vigour.

Why not? Most write-ups I've read about chaotics suggest negative emotions like anger and hatred are paths to chaos, and are associated with the state of being chaotic, so a chaos god who provides nihilistic berserker spells surely fits with the overall ethos?

I've read several contradictory write-ups of Urain, is this a canon source of chaos berserkers? Or is there another chaotic god who gives followers the power to stand toe to toe with the likes of Zorak Zoran and Storm Bull?

There might be some danger to experimental fertility heroquests. The god who truly opened the door to interspecies fertility was Ragnaglar.

A vision of lunar soldiers sneaking towards their village, or the wind blowing the voices of soldiers talking as they approach the village towards listeners pumped with magic from high holy day ceremonies, would be warning enough. The Lunars had enough magic and strength to cause serious harm on any day, but why attack your enemy when they are at their strongest? That would be practically begging for more casualties. A court martial for incompetence would be a likely outcome, even if the Lunar attackers were victorious. Better to wait for a full moon, and strike when Orlanthi magic is at a low point. Nobody can predict the future, but Lunar sages would know about Orlanthi magical cycles and could read a calendar and do some calculations.

The eagle landing on the cactus is just the civic engineer trying to silence the ignorant 😉

Does the founder of a city of atheist sorcerers find themselves unexpectedly attached to the city in the afterlife? So do cities filled with atheists actually have a city god? If so, how do the gods of atheist cities compare to cities with more formal ancestor worship?

What I find fascinating is the element of genuine value in such rituals. A number of medicines in use today are based on folk remedies, like aspirin is a modified version of a chemical found in willow tree bark. Chewing on willow bark provides genuine pain relief. The ancients also had other remarkable skills, for example the people who built the pyramids knew their trade. Even people who sited a seasonal camp would have examined important factors - the defensibility of the site, access to water and food. Obviously in Glorantha its all a bit easier - you ask a greater being to employ superhuman intelligence to figure it all out for you. Or do you?

I think most people were so profoundly shocked it would never have occurred to them to join another cult - what if the new god goes away as well? “more difficult to draw breath”, a major spiritual injury. You offer a piece of yourself to your god, then suddenly it’s just gone.

Glorantha - The Clanking City has a terrific description of a magical siege, God Learner sorcerers maintaining defences against EWF warriors riding dragons. Might be a bit high powered for a group of third age adventurers, though who knows - the hero wars contain events which dwarf the magic of even the second age.

My question - what happens to Trolls when they die? Does death just mean they have to stay in the underworld for a while, or can they come and go pretty much as before?

Thanks :-). And perhaps an element of tragedy - people who become entranced by the garden, and lose themselves in its beauty, eventually share its fate. Choosing the wasteland is the red pill choice to face reality, and the ongoing need to fight chaos.

Could be even weirder, perhaps they guard the memory of Genert’s Garden, which can be visited. So pass the sphinx, and for a day you are surrounded by unimaginable natures bounty which you can pick and offer to friends, but you cannot see or defend yourself against chaos - which makes this a very dangerous way to obtain food.

That was never proven... 😉