Dogboy

Maybe I've missed them, as you give less context in RQG than in HQG for Gloranthan art styles. can you point some out? I will say it seems odd to me that you see the Unity Council as pushing a single style of art, considering their background (later on, possibly, but initially they will be wide ranging in their art styles). Similarly the Horse Lords, as nomads, are likely to be patrons of the local folk arts.

The Scythian/Last Warrior - Is a Russian movie that has a lot of crazy Gloranthan flavour. Midsommar - A bunch of Godlearner apprentices go on a jolly to pagan lands. Hilarity ensues. I agree on Warrior (Korea), but would throw in Warrior (India) as a tale of a lone Humakti who seeks his lost honour. It also bears reapeating, one of the finest non-Gloranthan Gloranthan comics is Mesolith. It has serious Votanki/Hsunchen vibes.

Dragon Pass is a pretty cosmopolitan, and I'd expect some diversity there. Prax doesn't seem to get a look in. Anyway, it seems I'm the only one who finds this annoying, so I'll shut up

They were gods, not heroquesters, none of what they did was pre-trod, although they did have the mystic backing of their tribe. Also the Lightbringers quest is likely a post-Compromise myth: why would the King of the Gods suck up to Yelm? The original myth is about going to Hell to wake Ernalda, only with the First Council did the Lightbringers bring back Yelm, thus the Sunstop.

OK, the original posts are longer than anything that has been written about Art history in Glorantha. By a long way. Mostly because AH has by and large not been written about. But just because it is voluminous, doesn't mean it's correct. One look at the Prosopedia (the one in Gods of Glorantha, not the up coming one), tells you art in 3rd Age Glorantha is very diverse. Hell, that booklet is why I got into doing Gloranthan art in the first place. I worry that RQG and it's supplements are undermining that somewhat.

The question is, is this representation a "Second Age Reduction in Complexity" or a sign that the original Posts are a gross oversimplification of a complex subject 😜.

You misunderstood me. It is a leg up for a people with no propensity for it. They are crap cavilry, and it gives them some ability in an area they are weak in.

According to Trollpak, he's correct, but it would be a couple of metres tall and chewed into the rock.

This is why I don't always agree with Jeff: Breaks down Glorantha into 2 parts of Central Genertela. IMO Genertela, alone, is much more diverse than this.

* Within my remit. Limitations may apply. May cause side effects, like inability to eat bird flesh or wash on some days. If these cause issue, consult your priest. Terms and conditions can be found at your nearest temple.

This is why I used the term Entity. Though the cults of Yelmalio, Kargzant, and Elmal have some overlap, they will have differing myths. Differing myths, means differing powers. These aren't the "same" gods, and anyone saying so probably doesn't understand Gloranthan gods, IMO. If Elmal has a Hill of Gold, it is unlikely that it includes him being rolled by Orlanth. More likely he gifts him one of his powers, as the Loyal Thane of Orlanth he is. Similarly, Kargzant that was, wasn't Yelmalio, as the horse people have no use for a footsoldier cult. Instead they would have the Plain of Gold myth, in which he is purified of extraenous powers, to reveal the Kernal of his being, representing the predation in the Darkness. Cults syncretise, Gods don't. The problem we have is that we only have Jeff to write this. Jeff is Chaosiums' Greg, and he has a very clear idea of Glorantha works. He has to do the majority of the writing, and frankly it's a big task. Asking him to do this kind of writing is going to increase his workload significantly. I wouldn't want to burden him more.

On one hand, I understand it: These gods all refer to one entity. But on the other, the cults themselves are very indivudal things. For Jeff, I say you homogenise as much as you need to get the books out, but I also know that there is a lot that these cults won't agree on. You are conflating the cults of Yelmalio & Kargzant. They are not the same thing, they just talk to the same entity. For horse people, he might be a better fit: lance and shield charges, archery etc.

I meant that in that Pole Star, as a cult, is a lowlander war cult. It's the cult of officers. Pentans know the entity, but likely, not in the same way. It's like this conversation, Yelmalio is known as Kargzant by early horse nomads. It doesn't mean they worshipped the same cults as the Sun Dome, it means they worshipped the same entity. Now they worship an amalgamated Sun god (at least we have the Grazer, not the Dara Happan, cult in the rules, even if i'm not totally sold on it). To my mind, Yelm should have Catseye, not because Yelmalio is "the only sky god worshipped with mych frequency by [outsiders]... and gives his father [Catseye]" but because, to them, it is an aspect/subcult of Yelm. IMG, I'd have Yelmalio as a fork of the Yelm cult, that sat beside the Archer level but allowed the worshipper to be folded back into the Yelm cult at the Sun Lord or Elder levels if they choose to lead, Much like how a Vingan can become an Orlanth Rex member.

No, Kuschile is only for Yelmalio cultists as we know them: foot-soldiers, with little experience of horses. My point about kids was a stupid one, I'll admit.

You have no soul, Pete 🤣 Anyway, why take on a foreign god to do the job already taken by one of your own? I'm down with them pushing their Sun god on the Dara Happans, but they are unlikely to take a walker god when they already have a servicable god themselves.

But he is there. There is a very good reason why the Grazers would still worship Kargzant/Lightfore: because you have to protect your herds at night too. Yelm/Yu-Kargzant gets Catseye from Yelmalio/Kargzant/Lightfore. He wouldn't get that from a bunch of footsoldiers, he'd get it from the cult of nocturnal guardians.

This conversation, now taken out of context, was about Yelmalio. Some enterprising Yelmalio cultist Heroquested and found a link to 1st Age Kargzanti Horse Archers. Kuschile archery is a leg up for a bunch of foot soldiers. My guess would be that it would also be taught to Grazer kids, who aren't great riders (yet), as defense against attack.

Yes, they are talked about, but as they shun outsiders and are generally shy, and retiring, they can be regarded as cryptids. As such, good luck trying to join them, as they'd rather stick hot needles in their eyes, than have an outsider interfere in their shizzle.

Higher-Kargzant, though I do remember that there was supposed to be some shade thrown at whether he was considered Yelm by the Lowland Pelorians/Dara Happans. There was a whole "Empty Emperor/Puppet Emperor" piece, with the Horse people concealed by curtains, which we never took to final art for GRoY. It was sketched but we hadn't decided on who was represented in court.

So, you don't see any confusion in mine and Jeffs' posts? 🤨

If Kargzant=Yelmalio, and Yelmalio is the sun-horse, why isn't Yelmalio worshipped as such in the Grazelands? you'd assume they are very adept Kuschile archers. it makes me think that Yelmalio is Orlanth Adventurous, to Yelms' Orlanth Rex.

Ooh, sounds intersting. Are they any good? I don't know the artist. Do you mean the nice map with the giant sleeping?

Well, I don't see it's correlation, so it must be me. Yeah, there is some issue with maps in the 2 scenario books: They just don't seem to match the descriptions. In the case of Miskanders Tower, it's obvious that the AD was never told of the original maps. In this case i suspect similarly.

Hi, I'm gonna be moving my Aggar campaign to Dorastor, and was reminded that my copy of Dorastor lacked the bleeding map 😂 Does anyone have a scan of it, or access to a decent map of Dorastor? I know it's a long shot, but i thought it worth asking.

OK, so, trying not to be such a dick about this, I do see EpicureanDMs point. Traditionally (i.e.RQI&II) Yelmalio was painted as an adventurer cult. A lot of his mythology can be seen as "a plucky god, goes it alone, and in his adversity, he shines". Rurik, in all those examples, isn't part of a militia. He is part of a band*. It was only with MOBs' Sun County (RQIII), that a lot of folks realised that Yelmalios real lesson was "if you go it alone, expect to get the sh*t kicked out of you!". His cult was given context, and it was portrayed as a cultural cult. Every game since then, despite pushing cultural play, portrays a rag-tag group of disparate adventurers, be that HQG or RQG. Looking at RQG, he is again depicted as an adventurers cult, and it it can be inferred that players can come from multiple cultures, and join together as a band. it does undermine the whole militia conceit. That said, in my own game, we have a sole Yelmalion, and he seems pretty happy in that he is a sole believer amongst a bunch of mangy Orlanthi. *He also dies a terrible end because he wasn't part of a militia, which is hilarious.