Mankcam

cheesy asian dance-off contest rules, with expanded moves and such

Yes I think I'll go with Pantheon Allegiance to save time. I like how you did this with 'Celestial Empire', I actually like how you did most things with that setting actually, a fine product Sorcery from Pure Logic? It'll work for my independent sorcerers in my Glorantha setting, as they study the lore accumulated from the God Learners. However, my Malkioni Clergyman will still have to say their prayers to the Saints. It'll bust my players' world to do so otherwise. I'll love to get my hands on the 'Men Of The West'(or whatever its called), Moon Design can't bring that out quick enough for me... Thanks for everyone's input into this thread, it's given me some clarity cheers

Black Horse County? That explains everything, you were right on the mark for them heh heh

PS: Icebrand, even in your setting you could still use Allegiances for aethistic sorcerers. They would simply be acting according to their belief system, be it Zistorism, Nihilism, or whatever. Allegiances can describe concepts and philosophies, and don't necessarily need to be allied to Deities and such. Or thats how I read it. I do like your descriptions of aethistic sorcerers, that is similar to how I envision their views in my setting, except they are definately the minority in Western lands, with Malkioni Clergy being the majority of western sorcerers.

You defined the Gloranthan setting quite well, its very much the case of a character's relationship to his alliances, be that to friends & allies, to the cult, to the runes, to a deity, to the community. These aspects become more obivious and more important during a long campaign, and this is what makes it a 'personal' setting and helps give it a different shine to that of many generic fantasy settings. Or you can just play it hack'n'slay If all players played scrupulously, then we probably wouldn't need combat mechanics either; everyone would just agree in accordance with what felt right with the narrative of the story! I'm read about rpg systems like this, although I don't know how it'ld pan out in practice. Most of us tend to like a few nuts'n'bolts mechanics to simulate the players behaviour in a rpg session. Allegiances falls under that banner. I think the easiest solution is do a tweaked version of the Allegiance rules, and ally the Allegiances to Deities (also Saints and Great Spirits). Obiviously the characters would accrue Allegiance Points akin to the BRP rules for behaviour consistent with the virtues of that Deity. I think that it will be far too difficult to accrue Allegiance Points to opposing Deities for behaviour adverse to the character's Patron Deity. This concept works for a setting with only a few Allegiances available (ie: Good vs Evil; Law, Balance, Chaos; One Pantheon such as The Greek Gods, etc). Glorantha has a multitude of Pantheons, and literally hundreds of Deities with cross-over roles and virtues (I can't remember how many were in the Prospaedia Book from AH RQ3's 'Gods of Glorantha' box, not to mention all the HeroQuest sub-cults etc...). So gaining Allegiances with other Deities due to behaviour contary to your own Deity, yet pleasing to another, would be very difficult to manage during a game session. I think if I bring Allegiances into my setting, I'll simply allow characters to accrue Allegiance Points for acting acccording to the Deity's virtues, and I'll deduct Allegiance Points for behaviour contary to those virtues - the more adverse the act, the greater the reduction in Allegiance Points (not to mention other narrative measures to portray the effects of contary or 'sinful' behaviour). It's not canon for the Allegiance rules, but it may be the simpliest way to use Allegiances in this setting

I must confess that I have become a bit of a RQ heretic myself - my original troupe had issues with the sorcery/malkioni thing years ago. To get around it I relabelled things somewhat for my current troupe - all specialist spell casters who learn through Cults are known as 'Priests' (with varied cult or local titles), whether they are theistic or using sorcery. Even the Malkioni Clergymen. I found it provided greater consistency and allowed the players to envison medieval friars and such for the Malkioni. The magic is different, but the players are more clear on the role. In my setting, 'Sorcerer' is a term for rare independent practitioners of any magic type, and may have distrustful or heretical conoctations in many regions. In parts of Safelster and in Handra I have a few conclaves of educated semi-independent / atheistic magic practitioners, and they are known as Wizards. Most areas outside of here view this as heretical, a left-over from the Godlearner days. It just seemed to work a bit easier for the Gloranthan newbies. Not sure if I'll tell them otherwise :-) The reason I'm doing Malkioni is because I have a few players new to Glorantha, but old to other systems like D&D (ugh!). I found that Safelster, Maniria, and the Castle Coast are ideal places to introduce new troupes to Glorantha, especially if the players have been playing in more generic fantasy settings before, such as many provided by D&D, Rolemaster and such. The civilised areas are a little like medieval England, France, Italy, Portugal etc, so it fits the D&D mindset (and many D&D scenarios can be easily ported into it). It makes a good analogy for them to begin with. The further they travel out of the Malkioni lands, the less 'generic' the settings become, the more authentic Gloranthan the campaign becomes. But, back to topic - Allegiance ideas anyone?

Yes, I came across that site a while ago, I forgot all about it actually. The bulk of the work seems to have been done, well, at least for some of the Cults. Unfortunately I'm using the 'HQ Blood Over Gold: Trader Princes of Maniria' sourcebook for the setting, so the Storm and Solar pantheons are not prominent in my current game, the pcs mainly follow the Malkoni Saints. But that's neither here nor there, that's just trappings really, I could easily work out Virtues for them, and I think HeroQuest lists the virtues for its cults, so that should port directly across. The main stumbling block for having Allegiances to Deities would be the accumulation of too many Allegiance Points. In Stormbringer it was simple, there was only three Allegiances, and all pivotal actions fell within the realms of these three, and it was easy to determine which Allegiance was accrued. If I was to do this for Gloranthan Deities, there would be far too many to gain Allegiances with. Perhaps I should go with the idea of Pendragon-like Virtues, that way regardless of theistic orientation the character's behaviour would dictate which Allegiance (Virtue) was gained. I did like how Greg Stafford did this in Pendragon, it was the main mechanic I liked in those rules (but I loved the content). My only issue is that this will be tweaking the character sheet in a major way, I really only wanted to add a few lines. Passions and Virtues certainly were good for a setting based on chivalry, but I'm still considering that the Rune Affinities idea may have a more Gloranthan flavour. The Runes are more important than Deities, and are the building blocks of the universe, so I feel that they should fit into Allegiances in some way. I'ld like to see how it would work, or if anyone else has done it. But the ideas from the Pendragon Pass pages certainly have merit, and I'm still sitting on the fence regarding which model I'll initiate for using Allegiances in Glorantha. Thank you for your advice so far, I appreciate all views. cheers

I'm using BRP for an infrequent Gloranthan campaign, a carry-over from my AH RQ3 gaming of the late 80s/early 90s. Earlier this year I restarted using BRP, and I decided to use Glorantha 3rd Age again for the setting. I bought MRQ2 after I had already started my troupe off using BRP as the system, and I pillage MRQ2 rules where I can. I'm just wondering if any other GMs have incorperated the BRP Allegiance rules for use with Gloranthan concepts or divinities? I am considering bringing it to my campaign, it worked well in Stormbringer, and I can see it has value in other settings - I'm flicking through 'Crusaders Of The Amber Coast' and seeing how well it works for the Christian Faith, so I figured it would work well in most settings. I'm toying up whether I should create Allegiances for various concepts (eg: Law, Chaos, Neuatrality), or for all the individual Deities ( a mammoth task for Glorantha, even if only for one or two common pantheons. I'ld rename Allegiance as 'Devotion', 'Piety' or 'Pact', depending upon the Deity). Another idea would be using the Runes as basis for Allegiance, perhaps renaming Allegiance as 'Affinity', which would provide some of the Gloranthan flavour from HeroQuest. I'm leaning toward this later idea, as using Law, Neautrality, Chaos, although quite simple, would be too much like Stormbringer. Having individual Allegiances for every Deity would be very cumbersome to create, and quite difficult to manage during a session I believe. Making Allegiances to Runes seems more appropriate to the setting, and would be less difficult to play. However the problem it poses would be if every action accrues Allegiance Points then characters would need a separate sheet with all the Gloranthan Runes listed on it to be able to record this (not desirable). Some other problems exist, for example, with all the bloodshed they could easily accrue Death Rune Affinity too quickly, for instance, making everyone go Humakti eventually. If anyone has ideas on it I'ld like some input, especially if someone has already done the hard yards on this!

I agree that historical or semi-historical/ fantastic-historical settings certainly have their place. Using history as a base provides a firm reference point, and setting a story behind the drama of real-world events make for a great campaign, especially when you tweak it in unexpected ways. When I initially bought AH RQ3 in my teens I loved the fantasy setting of Glorantha, but also yearned for more of the Fantasy Earth setting that AH claimed they would be putting out. For the times, I thought RQ 'Vikings' and RQ 'Land of Ninja' were great settings, although they weren't strongly followed up with supplements. And that was about it - I was expecting much more, perhaps semi-historical, semi-mythical versions of Ancient Rome, Greece, and Egypt; The Mongol Hordes; Medieval Europe; The Meso Americas and Feudal Asia. I guess I could see the potential, and I wanted it all with RQ. So I am quite pleased that Alephtar Games have decided to specialise in these kinds of settings for BRP. I was frustrated that I came late to the party, and missed purchasing a hard copy of 'Stupor Mundi', but I quickly snatched up 'ROME' (briliant), and now ' The Celestial Empire' and 'Dragon Lines'. I have also recently picked up 'Crusaders of The Amber Coast' which looks great, although I haven't had time to get my teeth firmly into it (although I'm quite impressed from what I have seen). I'm eagerly awaiting 'Merrie England', and all in all I'm quite impressed by Alephtar's products. It's hard to know which one I prefer out of 'The Celestial Empire' and 'Dragon Lines', but if anyone is unsure which one to grab then just go for both, and treat them as one volume with different toolbox options, depending on how you want to run a feudal asian setting.

I finally got around to picking up copies of 'Dragon Lines' and 'Celestial Empire'. WOW! These volumes compliment each other nicely for any feudal asian campaign. Celestial Empire is great for a gritty semi-historic chinese setting, and Dragon Lines is perfect for an over-the-top asian setting, like the old Hong Kong Kung-Fu movies, or the more recent Crouching Tiger type stuff. I heartily recommend for people to purchase both volumes, as together they can provide a great toolbox for anything from gritty feudal drama to heroic wuxia. Really great stuff !!!

If you think that the characters will depend on a magic item too much, then work some disadvantage into it - perhaps an ancient sword has a higher fumble chance due to its age, or an item could be cursed (which may not be divined unless with a spec or crit Detect Magic or something like that). Perhaps it reacts adversely in a particular situation (like having a memory of a bad event that occurred to its previous owner etc). Whatever it is, over-reliance on magic items can be easily fixed, even with items the characters already have (the characters just have not come across the situation yet that triggers the disadvantage). D&D items (indeed items from most other rpgs) can be easily ported over, but as usual its best to disguise them with setting specific names & history. But it sounds like you're already working along those lines

Okay guys, I think this thread is getting a bit sour. I guess it shows that most people here are mature in years, and as such they have formed fairly strong world views. The original premise was that 'Roleplaying = Devil Worship', which we all agreed is ridiculous. Then it's got a little off-topic by bashing people's personal fundamental beliefs, which was bound to stir up a few poeple, and rightly so, given that it is ridiculing something quite important to them. This topic has the potential to polarise alot of people's viewpoints, and possibly weaken this forum as a whole. So perhaps it's time to let this thread die, and get back to tweaking fantasy worlds and all the other great creativity that comes out of this forum.

RPGs being the Work of Satan. This brings back memories of mullet haircuts and dodgy keyboard music... Back in 1985 my school librarian banned D&D because it was a satanic game, apparently attributing an outbreak of teenage suicides to it over in the USA. It was the best thing that happened to us. It meant that gamers at my school had to play other games in the high school library instead, such as RuneQuest, Rolemaster, MERP, Call of Cthuhlu... These had no profile at the time as they weren't TSR's D&D, so we had free reign heh heh I must admit I'm surprised this thinking has crept back in, it just goes to show that there's some weirdos still out there See everyone in Hell ( I hear it's RPG nights mid week and saturdays!)

Well that's excellent news, I've been after BRP Steampunk forever!

Whoops - my previous reply was actually posted in the wrong thread!

And that's it in a nutshell unfortunately. I think we'll see sporadic support for new settings (Future Earth perhaps), although this is just as likely to come from another company (eg: Alephetar doing support for ROME, for instance), but I doubt Chaosium will be able to put out any heavy support for any non-Cthuhlu lines. Call of Cthuhlu is great, and so are it's 'sub-lines' such as Gaslight and Invictus, but a few more completely separate settings would go a long way; at least a well-supported fantasy setting would make me happy. I really got into the system through RQ, not CoC. I played Elric/Stormbringer and CoC, but RQ has been my fall back system, so personally I'ld like to see a gritty fantasy setting or perhaps psuedo-historic ancient and/or medieval setting supported by Chaosium. I get my fix for this from Mongoose ( and now also Alephetar), but I would feel more confident in BRP's future if something like this was heavily supported by Chaosium, considering they started the whole shebang. 'Future Earth' certainly has the potential if it can become as detailed as the Cthuhlu line. In short though, if you're not into Cthuhlu Mythos then it's unlikely that you'll be attracted to BRP as a newbie as 85% (or more) of BRP's setting are for Call of Cthuhlu. It worked well for White Wolf to have one mega-setting, but World of Darkness had so many variations and possibilities that each addition to the line was almost a distinct setting in itself, something pretty unique really. I absolutely love the Lovecraftian supplements, but I just wish there was more non-Cthuhlu supplemental support coming out of Chaosium these days.

I would make skill modifiers simple, but not reinvent the wheel. Either an action is Standard, Easy, or Difficult, using the BRP rules as written. For a BRP-lite system I'ld actually get rid of the mega-broad Characteristic Rolls (ie: Agility, Effort, etc) and just have Skill Categories, that then allow you to do anything you want , making liberal use of the whole Standard, Easy, Difficult thingy. The skill categories are less broad than the Characteristic Rolls, but cover every action you'ld need to make. Anything outside of these would be an Attribute vs Resistance on the RES Table instead, for things such as Strength rolls etc. Perhaps a few Notable Skills/Traits are known, which are bought in +15% increments. These ones gain Skill Checks as per usual, but they actually gain Skill Development Points instead, which transfer into actual skill % increase at 15% increments (eg: 15%, 30%, 45%, 60%, and so forth). Keeps the maths very simple. But I think something like this is more worthy of the title' Basic Roleplaying' than the standard system actually is - BRP certainly isn't complicated, but it's too 'crunchy' to be "Basic", I would of preffered the standard system to be called 'Chaosium System' after it's parent company, but I'm digressing. All in all though I like what I'm seeing in RetroQuest for a brp-lite set of rules, but it needs to go 'lighter' I reckon...

I would make skill modifiers simple, but not reinvent the wheel. Either an action is Standard, Easy, or Difficult, using the BRP rules as written. For a BRP-lite system I'ld actually get rid of the mega-broad Characteristic Rolls (ie: Agility, Effort, etc) and just have Skill Categories, that then allow you to do anything you want , making liberal use of the whole Standard, Easy, Difficult thingy. The skill categories are less broad than the Characteristic Rolls, but cover every action you'ld need to make. Anything outside of these would be an Attribute vs Resistance on the RES Table instead, for things such as Strength rolls etc. Perhaps a few Notable Skills/Traits are known, which are bought in +15% increments. These ones gain Skill Checks as per usual, but they actually gain Skill Development Points instead, which transfer into actual skill % increase at 15% increments (eg: 15%, 30%, 45%, 60%, and so forth). Keeps the maths very simple. But I think something like this is more worthy of the title' Basic Roleplaying' than the standard system actually is - BRP certainly isn't complicated, but it's too 'crunchy' to be "Basic", I would of preffered the standard system to be called 'Chaosium System' after it's parent company, but I'm digressing. All in all though I like what I'm seeing in RetroQuest for a brp-lite set of rules, but it needs to go 'lighter' I reckon...

Well heroin may have been a cheaper addiction option, after 25 years I'ld either be rehabed or six feet under' Gotta love a RPG addiction, especially a RQ/BRP addiction!

* Fatigue and ENC is a bit fiddly, but if you have MRQ2 you can port a system like that into it, which is a little better. * Damage works fine for me actually * Vehicle rules a little tedious and done better in other rpgs. Not an issue for my games though, and not really a core rules issue, best covered in a supplement. * Shield rules could be a little better, and I agree that two-weapon combos need to be looked at * SIZ not consistent, but no big issue in my sessions * I actually like the Resistance Table, but I find it odd that we have Characteristic Rolls as well (I understand why, but they are so similar that it is a bit messy). I would prefer one or the other - possibly the Resistance Table * The magic system seems to repeat it's Powers uneccessarily. I would prefer one core set of Powers (aka Savage Worlds) with various styles, magic types etc applied to them for character. Maybe more should go into the whole set-up for magical powers, along the lines of the GURPS Thaumaturgy Book (a great supplement for any system really). This would not take any flavour away from magical types, but the flavour should be merely important trappings which sets the Powers apart, but have one core mechanic for how they work. Or something like that. Other than that, its still my favourite system, and has been since the mid 80s. Played others but always go back to a variant of BRP, so it must have charm in there somewhere...

Maybe a Stun blast would work similarly, except instead of the 1d6 damage per spell level, you could make the opponent make a roll on the Resistance Table on CON vs the caster's POW, requiring a success to remain conscious, otherwise the opponent is stunned for the duration of the spell. Perhaps if it was a variable spell the caster could receive+2/additional spell level to their POW for purposes of the Resistance Roll, thus making it a more potent Stun effect for more powerful versions of the spell.

How about a variable spell that for every spell level costs 1 Power Point and creates an area effect blast that does 1d6 damage to anyone within a 2 m radius? That's probably about the scale I think, or in the ball park at least. Each spell level is accumulative, so as an example, a Blast 4 effect would create an 8m diameter blast that does 4d6 damage to anyone within that diameter. Perhaps there is some type of way to avoid it, perhaps a successful Agility roll could indicate only half damage taken instead of full force or something like that...

Well I'm glad Thalaba diffused this whole powder-keg of a thread, it was getting way too hot in here before that quip about the Lee Van Cleef avatar! Everyone's really singing from the same songbook here. If they didn't like BRP (or one of it's derivatives) then they wouldn't be here in the first place. This, however, has been an interesting thread to follow over the past week or so, it kinda reminds me of the old school yard fights, or maybe even the old Gloranthan Digest threads! Thanks for a great week's entertainment fellas!

Nice. My troupe plays about 6 hrs every 4-6 weeks, so experience gain is a slow event. My rules have been to allow standard skill checks for successful skill use under 55%, with skill checks above this only yielding +1% gain (as opposed to +1d6% gain). Special successes yield the standard +1d6% gain, with Criticals yielding a +1d8% gain. Each additional Special or Crit within the same story arc yields a +1% to the dice gain dice roll. It's not bad, but a bit slow going at times - I think when/if we start another campaign I may try out your scale here for quicker progression.

Yes, MRQ2 is certainly quite simple with a straightforward 10% Critical Success, a logical advancement in the rules I guess. But I never had an issue with a player not being able to calculate a 20% Special Success either. It was also fairly easy to actually jot down the Crit chance alongside the skill, such as '03/60%' for a 60% skill that crits on an 03 or less. No biggie really, just it's just down to personal taste, but I guess MRQ2 feels much 'cleaner' in this regard.