Austin

As someone with at least twenty fewer years of RQ experience than most folks on this forum, I love when threads get derailed. Gives me material to steal for my own game .

Sorry to derail the thread, but how long have you been playing that game IRL? Has it all/mostly been RQG? Have you been using the "adventure per season" model? Just curious. I'm not familiar with many actual long-running games of RQG.

As others have noted, your best bet is trying to get into the game itself. For actual things to read, I suppose I'd try starting with the Rune Cults chapter, as it blends game stuff and fluff stuff somewhat well. As you note, the Sourcebook is somewhat dry. This is my take on most Gloranthan fiction as well. I've not read Griselda, but to my knowledge it's the only text which can really be considered fiction in the common sense. King of Sartar is... interesting? But it'll really depend on your player's taste. If they enjoy or would enjoy something like Herodotus or Thucydides, they might find it interesting. Ultimately I don't think KoS is very good, and I find that most Glorantha material has a high barrier to entry from the "what's the fluff" perspective because it's usually presented from a gnomic, intentionally-contradictory stance. While there are valid reasons for this, I think it's a serious weakness of the setting. There's nothing like Lord of the Rings, or Dragonlance, or the Drizzt books, or Warhammer 40k's Black Library, or even semi-historical narratives like I, the Sun for your player to whet their teeth on. So to answer your last question--no, I don't think there's any good fiction set in Dragon Pass. Thus, immersion's probably your best bet. However, if you want alternatives your players could explore solo, I would recommend the video game King of Dragon Pass, set around 1300ST if I remember right, around the founding of Sartar. It's usually cheap (I picked it up a couple months ago for like six bucks on Steam) and does a good job building the setting and immersion through its gameplay. Some of the reading which comes across dryly (like some myths) are improved by giving the reader stakes in the reading. For example, remembering a detail so that you'll be able to play out a heroquest correctly.

I'd also like to see more gear, market rules, etc. For example, if barding's a thing (something I know one of my players will ask the moment he gets a mount), what does it cost? Does armor cost different for non-humans? Can you pay to refit, how much? etc. How often do the Chalana Arroy or Lhankor Mhy cults offer up alchemical goods for sale? Healing salves, antidotes, and so on. What does it cost to have a master in Ride train your mount from a cavalry beast to a war beast?

My favorite moment involving this: my players were planning how to defend a village from an oncoming raid by trolls. So the herder hides in the sheep corral, and when the trollkin charge the villagers + adventurers, he used Herd (and his Praxian hound) to stampede the sheep from their flank, breaking the charge. So yeah I wouldn't say it's impossible to keep up with Warriors; it just might require extra creativity.

This is the biggest thing to highlight. It depends a lot on the campaign. I really like the spread of occupational choices but, honestly, I really do think that the sub-optimal ones--like Farmer, Herder, Fisher, etc--can be risky. I run a pretty hack & slash campaign, and I feel like one of my players, who's playing a herder of the Bison Tribe (worshipping Waha) is frequently outshined by other party members, particularly because our game's quite combat-heavy (which I'm working on training them out of, a little, but that's taking time). Now I do think he's more amused by this than annoyed, and he ends up providing a sort of foil to the heroic warrior nonsense going about so it works for us. One of the other campaign-centric things to keep in mind is if you'll be playing centered on "keep my tula safe" as Shining and Jaja implied. I do feel like "adventurer" is an occupation (of sorts) in Glorantha, even if that's not the case in a majority of Gloranthas. In a campaign more centered on "we're adventurers doing stuff" those "everyday" occupations are, IMHO, likely to provide less fun.

My biggest want (and I suspect the #1 for most others) is definitely heroquesting rules. IIRC it's been stated that the GM's Guide will have them, finally. Rune metals have an appendix in the adventures book in the GM Screen pack, but I wouldn't mind that being extended a bit. I really like the weird abilities some of the metals get, and I feel like there's room to add more metals or to expand what's written. For example, tin doesn't have any enchanted properties, nor does bronze. I'd also enjoy seeing the enchanting rules expanded. On p.250, it's noted that other enchantments than those in the Core exist, which both are not a cult secret and which anyone can perform if they know the procedure. Similarly, I'd love to see more rituals/crafting processes like the Staff of Flight on p.201 of the Bestiary (though I imagine that one, and similar, are cult secrets). I don't know if we'll see Illumination; I kind of think it might be in GaGoG instead of the GM's Guide. I don't recall any recent information confirming its location one way or another. I'd love to get more in-depth sorcery rules, but I don't think we'll see them in the guide either. That feels like that's probably a full book on its own. For character generation, I'd love to see a point-buy system like we've seen for various editions of D&D (I know other games use them, but D&D/Pathfinder's is the only one I'm familiar with). I think rules for building strongholds, founding temples/clans, that sort of thing could be really fun. Rules for combined magic would be great. In particular, I'm thinking of Argrath's warlocks of the Sartar Magical Union referenced at the end of the Glorantha Sourcebook (IDK a page number at the moment), and what process the Lunar colleges use. I feel like it's probably something involving collective wyter-magic but that's entirely inference on my own part. In either case, I think adventurers being able to become one of these combined units would be really exciting.

Normally does, but yeah I agree that's how I'd play the spell. I'm more trying to make a comment on RHW's phrasing because is technically inaccurate since Sunspear isn't in that category of spell. Like I said though, due to the AP boost this is more a proofreading thing than a "It doesn't work! fhdiaofnrjaln" thing.

Could you elaborate a little on obsidian as a Rune "metal" in your Glorantha? In particular, I'm curious if you play being able to forge it into certain items--particularly large ones, like swords or armor--and if it has special properties when enchanted like the other Rune metals. Also (and this is more finicky than important IMO) you note Resist Fire giving a bonus to resistance against spells like Sunspear, but Sunspear doesn't have to overcome POW. I describe this as not super important because I feel the spell would just apply its AP against Sunspear instead (even though magical protection usually doesn't apply).

That definitely feels reasonable to me. However, RAW, "Any Rune points spent in divine intervention are replenished normally." This is only explicitly noted for the priest, but some portion of the priest's text seems implicit in the RL's text as well. The full DI text for RL's reads: Nvm, it's noted explicitly on p.273 that RL's get RP back too: I feel like this is a design choice so that Rune levels don't suddenly "un-initiate" by perma-losing all their RP in a divine intervention, even if it does open up some exploitable space for RLs to raise their characteristics. Still, I don't feel overall that exploit's too vicious, and it's not something I'm personally super worried about.

It's more like effectively saccing POW than an actual one-to-one relationship. On p.272, a Divine Intervention can be rolled to increase a characteristic by one point, up to species maximum. Rune Lords roll 1D10 for DI (p.280), and it's implied that they lose Rune points first, just like a priest. Likewise, I take it as implied that a RL's RP spent on DI comes back normally just as it does for a priest (on p.278). Hope that helps.

Increasing characteristics through training or research requires "two full seasons, during which no other training or research can take place." (RQG p.418) So kinda prohibitive, IMO, since IIRC you don't get occupational experience during that time either.

What is this? Source? (Not trying to be querulous, just curious. )

Also, it's worth noting for the conversation at large that the pre-gen characters vary from 98 points (Vasana) to 103 points (Vishi Dunn). This presumably includes Elemental Rune bonuses.

So I was thinking through a point-buy system a little, and while I don't feel I'm competent to create a scaled one--a system in which higher characteristics cost greater and greater points--here's what's currently bouncing around in my head. 92 is noted as an important metric in the book for adventurer creation, giving +3 points if you're at or below that point in total. So we'll start with 95 points. Reduce the minimum score in each attribute ([3x5]+[2x8])=31 to get a total of 64 points to distribute as the player wishes on a one-for-one basis. Finally, no characteristic generated this way can exceed 18. Unfortunately I don't think this is a great system because of the degree to which it is gameable. For example, pretty much every character built with this is gonna have at least either 15 or 17 INT (depending on if they anticipate a starting primary Fire/Sky Rune), and probably POW as well. But if you like point-buy systems, maybe this is a place to start.

I don't think that's right. I think "raiseable characteristic" means any characteristic which is able to be raised by normal means. So raising SIZ or INT would require 3 geese. I feel like there's no issues with the geese raising characteristics above species max, though.

HULK TANK! Also a bit torn because 1) Damn, got rid of the exploit and 2) Good, they got rid of the exploit. New optimized armor (maybe, unless I misread crap again?) for STR 15: Full helm (ENC 2) with leather hood beneath (ENC [2]), Plate vambraces (ENC 2), Heavy scale hauberk (ENC 3) with quilted linothorax beneath (ENC 1), Plate greaves (ENC 2) with leather pants beneath (ENC [2]), for a total of ENC 11. AP 7 in head and chest, 8 in abdomen (if you can stack hauberk, linothorax, and pants--I see no rule against multi-stacking if you've got the ENC...), AP6 in arms, AP 7 in legs. In any case, heavy scale hauberk + quilted linothorax is just plain better than segmented bronze plate. AP 7 ENC 4 v. AP 6 ENC 5. Substantially cheaper, too. 85L v. 300L. Should be noted that while the chart does not mark it, the entries for leather hood and quilted linothorax on p.217 each state they can be worn beneath other armors.

(Moved from characteristic generation thread because felt like we were moving into Egregious Munchkinnery territory ) STR's important for making up your ENC. CON's important for HP, so it doesn't factor into skills but is far from a "dump" stat. I think SIZ can be a "dump" stat, more or less. You want STR+SIZ to be 25+ for the 1D4 damage bonus, and SIZ 13 gives a bonus Hit Point (but reduces Stealth by 5%, which is kind of whatever?). That 1D4 can often be the difference between getting through armor or not. I don't think you can get more than 20 INT in RAW chargen. Fire/Sky as your highest, use some of your +3 points if under 92 to get to 18 then the Rune buffs to 20. (Those +3 can't go above 18, as Phil pointed out to me earlier in this thread.) So, I'd settle for aiming for 17+ INT. Ironically Rune Lords don't seem to have a requirement on POW, or RP built up? Although as a GM I'd rule they have to have at least 5RP like priests, but I don't think there's a requirement present in the text. I'd say optimally, you want a minimum of 5 POW. At 5, you get the 1D6 Spirit Combat mod w/ CHA 18, but don't take the penalties to all of your skills. Of course more POW is generally better, but as a Rune Lord you resist with POW 21 at all times so that's pretty great. If you want to be as heavily armored as can be, you want STR 15: Closed helm (ENC 2), Plate vambraces (ENC 2), Segmented plate (Chest&ab, ENC 5), Plate greaves (ENC 2), a weapon (usually ENC 1), and a Large Shield (ENC 3). You can wear leather underneath all locations for an additional +1AP at no ENC increase. This combo results in 7AP in all locations, plus an HP16 shield to parry with. If you've got STR 16, pick up a few darts to clip to your shield (2 darts for ENC1) to get a quick ranged attack.

Personally, I'm not convinced this will come up often enough in a game to matter. If I reach the point where my players actually want to have a kid, pay/win favor to get a Bless Pregnancy, and possibly play as that child in the distant future, I'll have them mark what they Blessed on some paper and move on with our lives. 16 years of game play is a long time; get through that, then think about it. I don't think child characteristics are relevant, honestly. GM may as well just hand-wave it. I assume it'd be either some gradiated nonsense where you gain points until adulthood, or that a STR 3 adult is still stronger than a STR 3 child and you just roll at birth. Always INT. INT adds a bonus to nearly all skill categories if you've got 17+. Getting +4 INT from Bless Pregnancy means your average 2D6+6 roll will get you tons of skill bonuses. Even if you've just got a point or two, it's worth adding there. Further, INT isn't a raiseable characteristic so it's not like you can improve this area.

Not certain a year-long Shield 15 is more worth the community's POW, but I agree with your basic point. Restore Health, Cure Disease, Bless Crops, etc. But it feels reasonable to me that an established, old clan like the Ernaldori probably has three to five Bless Pregnancy 4 matrices laying around, if not more. And an established, old clan seems likely, to me, to be looking forward to the future in that way, ensuring your clan's children are smarter, more charming, and more beloved by the gods than your rival clan's.

However, would a priestess of Ernalda with 20 CHA and 20 RP be able to sac 1 POW (going back down to 18) and then get a bunch of clan lay members to sac 1POW each to build a Bless Pregnancy 20 matrix? I feel like you could build a matrix like that every couple years, at least. Further, can you stack castings of Bless Pregnancy? Say, my aunt over in Rocktown cast 2 points on mom, my grandma cast 7 (she wanted her first grandbaby to be worth her time), and mom cast only 3 cuz she spent the first 2 on Reproduce to make sure dad knocked her up, for a total of +12 to stats (though who knows where grandma and auntie wanted the characteristics to go...).

I'm not sure if this will be helpful for your game, but I also wanted to tune down the quantity of Rune magic in mine, so here's what I've been playing in mine: All cults have access to all common magic, because I can't be bothered to keep track of which's which. Stackable spells have to be bought at each point, although the RP pool in total can be used for whatever. Each adventurer begins play knowing each common spell at their base value, has 3RP, and 3 points to add to their known spells. So for example, an initiate of Orlanth might choose Flight 2 and an extra point of Dismiss Magic, so they can get rid of spirit magic spells up to 4MP. When you sacrifice POW, you get that number of Rune points as well as that many points extra "learned" of spells of your choice. I should note that I am actually considering removing this, or perhaps removing it for special Rune magic but keeping it for common magic (which I think would have the effect you desire--only "professional magicians" tend to have access to significant Dismiss Magic, Warding, Sanctify, Divination, etc.). Ultimately, with the Rune point economy my game has experience, at this time I don't think trying to avoid my players casting season-long Shield spells with freely known Extension is too relevant. Now, if someone would roll up a POW-18 adventurer and drop 8 POW at creation for 11 total RP, I'd probably be a bit more hesitant to reverse our current rule... But you've really gotta reach that 10+ mark, I think, before some of the shenanigans options really come to the fore. Otherwise you've got your big spell, but no reserves. Also to piggy-back off my characteristics post I just double-checked the Pre-Gens and wow those are some stats. Across them, there is one 9, on Harmast, and three 10s (one each on Vasana, Vostor, and poor Harmast).

Back on the subject of characteristics... On p.53, the book notes that if an adventurer's rolled characteristics (before Elemental Rune bonuses) equal 92 or less, that adventurer gains +3 points spread where they wish with a max of 18. Minus 12 from the racial bonuses to SIZ and INT, that's assuming 80 points over 19D6, for an average of 4.21 rolled per die, whereas the usual D6 average is 3.5. Another way to look at this is taking that 92, subtract 26 (for average SIZ and INT of 13 each), then divide the resulting 66 among the five 3D6 characteristics, for an average across them of 13.2. Further, in the "Perfectly All Right" sidebar on the same page, it notes that players may want to throw away adventurers which don't have average characteristics of 12 or greater. So I think the obvious conclusion is that yeah, adventurers should absolutely have better characteristics than those generated by the RAW roll generation. Interestingly, the average on the classic D&D 3.5 and forward roll of "4D6 drop lowest" comes out to 13! So I'd say that method of characteristic generation is well suited for rolling STR, CON, DEX, POW, and CHA. Maybe even re-rolling ones atop that, or keeping the ">92? add 3" rule; it seems to me that the text implies a total of 92 points across the characteristics is an "average" or "slightly weak" adventurer.

Putting them into that top 100 But yeah, you're basically right. And as a GM, I'd allow it. IMHO the main barrier to reaching Rune levels isn't the required RP, but rather the skills required. Especially for some with required skills that can't be increased by experience, like Lhankor Mhy and Chalana Arroy.

Here's another way to look at it: my take is that the starting adventurer in RQG, as an initiate, is already someone who can be treated as a representative of their faith. They aren't a major figure, but to some degree they've already become someone significant to their community. At least, that's what I think is the dev intention. Whether or not that's the best approach is another matter. It's also worth noting that not every cult gets every common Rune spell. Eurmal, for example, only gets Divination, Extension, and Multispell (IIRC). And while @Shiningbrow is right about how important and precious RP are on an adventure, having access to common+3 at adventurer creation does provide lots of both complexity and flexibility. IIRC they're mostly lay members, not "initiates" in the game sense. There's a bit of text in the Core of "most adults are initiates" which was confirmed sometime last summer to not mean game-term "Initiate" but just a member. Which is super annoying, yes, but a relevant distinction. You are correct AFAIK that starting adventurers are expected to reach that upper 100 fairly quickly, I think.