Shiningbrow

My point in bringing this up (here and in the other thread, where I'll post something I'm sure will be taken as inflammatory) isn't to get you (or others) to get a "good" hearing. It's to get a fair hearing! And, by that, I'm sure you have lots of bad things to say (think - because I'm sure you won't voice them on a public forum - fair enough!) about "Mongoose", but in doing so, you're including every person who worked on their material - not just publishing, but also the individual writers, artists, layout designers, etc etc etc., and not just senior management, finance departments, lawyers, etc. I'm completely ok with you even hating them (not that my "ok" should actually mean that much to you - although, as a consumer of your products, the ones who give you the money to survive (as insignificant as my proportion is), as a "representative' of them, what I'm saying should at least be taken note of). But, just as the Orlanthis hate the Lunars, I'm 100% sure that those with a high Honour Passion are going to at least admit that they have some damn tough fighters! They can hate them, but also say their magic is powerful (if Chaotic). In the same vein, sure MRQ (1 in particular) may have been horrendous in your mind - but that deoesn't mean you can't (or shouldn't) indicate that everything about it was bad! (and, denying anything good is the same as saying that everything is bad). The inability to see something (almost anything) good or admirable or worthwhile is not only immature (like a butthurt fanboi), but also unprofessional - as it could lead to ignoring a good idea just out of the butthurtedness... (a good idea that's not actually from "Mongoose", but one of the individuals that worked on the project). This thread is testament that there are at least a few good ideas, that I suspect some people here would like to see included (if not outright, at least as a starting point). A good idea that may end up as house-ruled in for many

Got it. Fine. So, which is the RQ 3 (Avalon Hill/Games Workshop) forum? It obviously can't go.in the other RQ forum... Because it's as similar (and different) to the "classic and current" as MRQ is. Pendragon Pass is not Runequest - it's Glorantha. I don't think anyone, anywhere or anytime has argued that you should "rely" on MRQ for anything. I know I haven't. (In Logic and Rhetoric, that's the logical fallacy of Red Herring...)

Got it. Fine... so, which is the RQ 3 (Avalon Hill/Games Workshop) forum It obviously can't go.in the other RQ forum... Because it's as similar (and different) to the "classic and current" as MRQ is. Pendragon Pass is not Runequest - it's Glorantha. I'm not sure anyone anywhere anywhen has ever questioned why you should "rely" on MRQ. I certainly haven't. (In Logic, that's called a Red Herring - sending a discussion off down a different path than was initiated)

It amuses (annoys) me that MRQ is not seen as real RQ. I've seen Legend, and I've seen the similarities in the rule system. Just.. This IS an RQ discussion. (And confirms my thoughts on on another thread). The Glorantha forum I would have at least understood... Anyway...

What the...??? Somebody moved this discussion about Runequest out of the Runequest category and into the Legend group???

Any others who have that opinion (and I know there are some (many?)) are also purely 100% of their vision. Just as your opinion doesn't affect their vision, and theirs doesn't affect yours...

Can vampires learn sorcery, since now it's a requirement to sacrifice POW to learn the Runes or techniques! (Or, must that all be done before being turned??)

I know, and I should have qualified with "most? Many?" But, it was based on the responses I'm getting in the other thread... Do people have Combat Styles? I'm very much in 2 minds about them.

Your first big question is really important - prior exposure to RQ. Diehard RQ fans probably hate MRQ (any version!). Those who have never heard of it will have different issues, but are unlikely to hate... Sort of like movie series, especially adapted from books or comics. Some people hated Jackson's LotR - mostly the book fans. (I'm not suggesting Mongoose was right to do as they did. Just pointing out that it really only affects the fans, not the potentially new generation... As much as I'm a fan of Glorantha and it's history, I am amused by the "Your Glorantha May Vary - Unless It's By Mongoose"). I said in that other thread, I'n not a fan of Hero Points. The Heroic Abilities - sure, as discussed elsewhere, some make for good rewards for Heroquests (some people should take note!) Enhanced weapons - I like, and I think is actually important. Some I felt a little cheesy (such as the top tiers). Furs to.leather... Not sure why, but I'm sure some out there need it! Enchanted weapons are a must have - although I don't recall much ATM. I'm currently on a bus, so obviously don't have my books in front of me. But HQ rules are in the Cults book (Gods of Glorantha??), with HQ hacking rules/spells by God Learners in another book. Yep! And that's actually been a part of Heroquesting! Gaming-wise it can suck (without a handwave). Lore-wise it's fine. Any thoughts on Integrated Runes having an in-game effect? E.g., +10%'to skills, etc? I thought that it was a concept that was sorely lacking previously. (Having to integrate Runes that were just hanging around waiting for you to pick up was stupid though... But, again, I'm coming from an RQ2/3 background)

You're automatically presuming that rushed always equals bad. And as I've said regarding the art in MRQ above, "not always good" is not the same as "bad". Again, my point is and was on this topic - I find it odd that except for a few individuals, MRQ is ignored as the terrible black sheep in the family that everyone wants to ignore, pretend doesn't exist, and basically hates. .. In it's absolute entirety. @Jeff has a distinct problem acknowledging even one single positive point.

I was a (poor) kid back in those days, and living down under also meant delays in shipping anyway. My reference to the extended time of decades was actually from a post on here about HQ coming "next year" for (apparently) 20 years. ("Apparently"... I don't know. HQ wasn't/isn't my thing. Re: timing. What you wrote I understand and agree with! I was trying to point out a rushed finished product (for whatever reasons - not defending them) is better than no product at all. As I mentioned, MRQ gave the first HQ rules in the 30+ years of Runequest's existence. And still. For those who want to do HQs now, the options are house rules, or a fleshed out MRQ. I'd probably take the MRQ (it's not bad!) When chaosium has theirs in print later this year (or next year... Or whenever), I may change my mind... I mostly think there's a middle ground... Current ETAs with regular updates of what's happening.

Ah! Found it. Yeah, tiny paragraph. The elaboration was what I was referring to (which has already been shown in RQ3 GoG). Thx for the quick response.

I agree! Rushing isn't good... I also think holding off indefinitely without an ETA also isn't good. Nor is being well past an ETA. Question though - is a rushed product better than one you don't have? (I'm in this situation ATM from a kickstarter... I'm willing to wait a little longer, but with no ETAs, the idea of now and not perfect is much better than sometime later maybe...)

I've just checked my 1980 print of RQ2 - again -, and a 1979 Cults of Practice, and I'm still not seeing any reference to an Associate Priest. It's not entirely relevant or important, but care to point me to a page number?

Thank you - I stand corrected!

Yes, let's be perfectly frank (although, TBH, this isn't really the thread for it...). I fully understand that Mongoose stuffed up, and there were a lot of unhappy people regarding the materials they published. That's not even remotely in question. I'm not intending to defend the publishing, management and logistics of Mongoose. I'm referring purely to some of the ideas for Runequest (as in, game rules). It seems to me that this is being ignored purely out of emotion - and from a business perspective, making business decisions based on emotion (especially that of hurt pride or anger, which is what I'm getting from your responses) is always unwise. Business decisions need good clear thinking, weighing pros and cons with a rational, steady head. Some of the writers at Mongoose on the MRQ project came up with some good ideas for the game, as @soltakss and I have indicated above (and, I believe, have been discussed elsewhere). I'm trying to look through my RQ collection now to see when the (officially published) idea of Acolytes (now, God Talkers) started, but I'm fairly sure it was MRQ (feel free to correct me, but I don't see them in RQ 1, 2 or 3). If the ideas we mentioned in the previous few threads are completely crap, please enlighten us as to why, and why Chaosium would never consider using them... (rather than merely, "not a bad idea, but doesn't suit our vision of Glorantha" - I don't think Hero Points work, although the Heroic Abilities do). (just quickly - is slightly ironic, given that Chaosium has had products "coming" for decades, and now doesn't even give ETAs... This isn't just my complaint, but one I've seen specifically mentioned by other lovers of the game on this very forum). (Your definition for "bad art" is obviously different to mine. Sure, it could be much better, and there are a few not good pics, but on the whole, I don't consider it "bad"... just "not great", with some exceptions)

Are you actually after the modules to run? Or merely to get ideas on what sort of magic items to place in your own scenarios?

TBH, I'm not sure about Hero Points... However, there were real, useable mechanics for Heroquesting and the possible spells used within them (granted, attributed to God Learners), which was something sorely missing from official RQ products (including right up until this day, I might add!) (ETA: although I really disliked tangible Runes, and especially the requirement to have them for spellcasting, I *did* like that having a connection to those Runes had an in-game effect. And then, Mastery of the Rune and even stronger effect) I see...so, baby ... bathwater ... bye bye. There's absolutely nothing they did well (and different), huh? Sad. So, no Magic book. No specific races books. No pretty soft-cover books... I've loved Runequest, and especially Glorantha, since the mid-80s. As have many others here. I still have time for some of what they did (even if they did ignore the lore... ).

I am aware. I'm also aware that Mongoose published a lot. And developed some aspects of RQ that 40 years otherwise had never been handled (well .. Or at all). Obviously, some things were stuffed up (badly), but there are lessons Chaosium should learn from. Babies and bathwater...

Need rules for those other... "passions". And their spirits.

I'm sure I've read somewhere that he is a vampire... Hmmmm. Re: timing. Ok.

Yeah, I can. Easily. And so too do many people who play the game. And so too have the developers, and the storylines involving Ducks have zero hint of Daffy, Howard, etc (except one reference to Hueymakti). Decades ago, Ducks became a respectable, playable race that's not there for comic relief. If you see Ducks as "silly cartoon characters", that's purely 100% your vision that's not allowing them to be anything else (e.g., a 'real' person, like any other race on Glorantha).

However, one obvious counter to "I can't see farmers throwing lightning around" is that the Lunars have been battling to take over their lands for ages. Those Lunars, and all the aforementioned enemies, would make a requirement for having powerful magic in that type of world... You will be required to defend your stead! You are expected to be competent! Violence is always an option

I was going to link that!!!! 😛

Along with what G33K said above, but... It's not the GM's game. It's everybody at the table's game. And so changes to rulesets really does need to be agreed upon. When going from one edition to another, it really does need to be unanimous, or you'll end up with resentment, and then hostility, and a bad game. Especially, the.GM really needs to sit down and talk about everything with each player. Playing by a particular rule set (including house rules) is an *agreement* between all players, and thus shouldn't be taken lightly. (Been there, done that... Left games)