Shiningbrow

I suspect there will be greater clarifications in the future... and, just as a rule is presented, we'll see numerous counter-examples to go with it!

I was going to throw that up as a question... But, I suppose it's not any different to a spirit holding the spell, and the fetch holding the spirit. But, maybe not??? But then, such spells are not CHA-based, rather than INT- based, and IIRC, Fetches used to have INT, not CHA. Now, Sorcerers need both CHA and INT to store their spirit magic (unfair!) So, I'm confused 😛 However, I tend to agree that Shamanic Abilities that relate to spells shouldn't be for sorcery (eg, Extension) or Spell Barrage. As per the HQ Abilities thread, I can see an ability similar to Expanded Presence but for INT being given by a powerful being (now, would that affect Free-INT directly? Or only as a placeholder?)

I'm using a looser definition of 'divine', as I think most ancestor worshippers (both on Glorantha and Earth) would do. And, this "Divine Intervention" is merely our meta-term for an in-game action. In their world, they would "call upon all the great ancestors to come and help us in this dire moment of need", and infuse their call with their POW.

That's the difference between the generic stat block and the examples given... and that's in both the RGQ and the Bestiary. So, either the stat block is wrong (incomplete), a specific line about INT is missing, or the examples are exceptions... RQ has lots of exceptions to rules. That would depend upon the above... Also, what about one aspect wyter vs another? I can imagine the Samastina and Hendira in Notchet using different Wyters to power up and fight each other...(whether that's "acting against it own cult" would be up for debate )

The descriptions for what constitutes a focus include some things that (can) take a very short period of time - tattoo, scarification, carvings. And, we have real world examples - our Earth Runes from various cultures (obviously, Norse being the most obvious). However, they serve as more than just a focus (closer to a matrix). The actual carving is simple. I think the USB analogy works for learning the spell directly from the spirit (or you'd be pretty much out of it for quite a while in normal circumstances). You enter spirit combat, defeat the spirit - Yay! - but then can be stuck in a mental limbo for the next few days as the spirit imparts its knowledge to you? I don't think that's what was intended (if so, there would.should be rules for being fed etc, and needing to have your body guarded... or some other mechanic. As it is, it's "defeat spirit, learn spell"). The week may well be preparation from the Shaman.. but my bigger concern/argument is that it takes the same amount of time and effort to learn Heal 1 as it would for Multimissile 20 (RAW). (I'm also assuming that the Shaman doesn't have knowledge of every single spell to high variable levels kept in mind, or within all of their spirits. That is, at some point, the Shaman is going to have to go fetch (pun intended!) True. But, again - Heal 1 vs Multimissile 20.... Where's the old "1 day per point"???

Spirit combat. If you're casting a Rune Spell with lots of MPs (that take it to more than 1 MR) then it can affect what other spells can be cast in that following MR (unless you rule no other magic can be used until the Rune Spell goes off...). Relevant to taking a bad hit that requires urgent Healing in the casting round (or perhaps other scenarios). I did write "can" to mean "can" - not "will". I don't understand the issue.. just count up. This is where the (that which cannot be named) RQ and the Actions per Round idea is superior.. the higher your DEX, the more attacks/actions you get. (Doesn't work quite as well for an open-eneded timing system though). True - but if we change the system from MR to open-ended SRs, then that mechanic ought to change as well. 0 SRMs should just be out and out abolished!

But, for the Shaman, who has been part of a spirit tradition handed down for generations, there's no need to go finding those higher MP variants - they're already known entities. Especially for the more common spells (Heal). Sure, my suggestion fails if the spirit loses the spell (for some reason, the knowledge is transferred out). Otherwise, spirits usually being 'immortal", then it's not an issue. And, this is especially especially true for ancestors - and again especially for Shaman ancestors (Summon Spirit Teacher + Summon Specific Ancestor). I'll make the assumption that the rules be sensible rather than broken when there is reason given to support it. After all, it seems extremely illogical to suggest that the rarity of a spirit is an important factor, given that said rarity doesn't impact on time... whether it's a 1pt Heal or a 20pt MultiMissile, it still takes 1 week to finish the teaching. (again, odd, given that a spirit can teach a spell - any spell to any variable point level effectively instantly).

Yeah, that's sort of what I had in mind - although the republish could also happen if Chaosium wanted it to. Chaosium could also send out an offer - anybody willing to do the work can submit, and then Chaosium print it (after appropriate checking and editing, of course!)

For me, I think the problem is that time is divided nicely for the purposes of bookkeeping, and is too abstract. The great problem being the concept of a melee round. For example (and feel free to correct me if I've missed something here), while spell casting and ranged attacks can carry over from one MR to the next, normal melee combat doesn't. So, if you normally attack on SR 7, then (in one theory), you still have 5 more Strike Ranks up your sleeve for preparation for your next attack/action... Surely, this should mean on the next MR, you should be attacking at SR 2? But.. no. the abstraction fails here. Also, I'd like to know, when casting Rune Magic with MPs, when do you lose the MPs? When the spell is initially cast, or when it goes off? (or, for some ideas mentioned above, ie, Heal Wound over time) as each MP is used? The answer to this can seriously affect how the combat can turn out. If they're lost when the spell is cast (as, I presume, since the casting only takes place in the mind or words of the person - so, effectively instantaneous) then they're down those MPs for the next 10-12 seconds (which is a lot in combat!) Do you remove the used RPs when cast? Or only when it comes into effect (and, does your deity care if you're still alive or not when they come to deliver your plea?) You cast your Rune Spell, and then do other stuff, and then it happens.... what if you die between the casting and the effect? (probably should be a more specific thread about this) Back to SRs... I think a much simpler mechanic would be to just count up from 1, and ignore the "Melee Round" abstraction. 1 + SRMs - hit, add more SRMs - hit, add more SRMs - hit. Rune Spells go off at +X SRs after casting. Statement of Intent is important because, in theory, you're already halfway through swinging your axe to hit the opponent when they die from someone else's attack... so changing to attack someone else is going to take effort (and, in RL - if you try that too quickly, you can do serious damage to yourself!) But, the SoI can't be engraved in stone, because you can see that the person you were intent on attacking has just had their head removed... or, that Rune Spell that was cast last 'round' has just taken effect, and a huge lightning bolt has taken out your friend.... it shouldn't take 12 seconds for you to be able to decide that hitting the trollkin in front of you is not the wisest option, but taking out the priest is... With a cumulative SR system, significant changes to intent add X SRs, minor changes only Y SRs... (such as, changing your bow attack from enemy A to enemy B standing only 2 feet away from them... In RL, that's barely a second!)

I think this 1-week thing doesn't really make any sense. Nor does the economics (particularly for shamans). Carving a focus... it could be done within an hour. A focus is not magical in any way - it just helps the person to focus on the spell in mind, and then to utter the right words, intonations, maybe hand movements, etc. As for actually learning the spells... if it's from Spirit Combat, then it can be done within 30 seconds! Especially since all the various spirits with X Spells (of Y variability) and Z POW would already be known to the cult/shaman. Specifically for Shamans, if they're 'teaching' via the summoning of the appropriate spirit, I'd suggest the economy is broken (in favour of the Shaman). The summoning and temporary control of the spirit is going to take a similar amount of time, effort, energy, etc regardless of the spell being 'taught' (except in the case of fairly powerful spells). I don't imagine that every fresh-faced newbie shaman has to go out on their own to find their own spirits to help them out... instead, they'll be introduced to those that have been hanging around the tribe for generations so they can call upon their assistance (such as for teaching their spells!) I would think it unlikely that a spirit with Heal 1 wouldn't also know Heal 2 and Heal 3 (meaning, it actually knows Heal 3, but could pass on its knowledge for only the 1st point). So - if the spirit is already known, and the POW known, and the spells are known - and if the time, effort and energy for summoning and controlling the spirit with Heal 1 is about the same as for the Heal 3... then why is the Shaman charging 3x as much for the 3 as the 1? (or, why isn't the Shaman charging 150 for the Heal 1???)

I wonder if it would be worth someone's time to do the conversions, and then publish them as RQG books?

How did you choose to implement that? Did the PCs have to pay for it somehow? Or did you just give it to them all for free?

Thanks @MOB - although that quote of mine you used wasn't actually related to the move. The original discussion came from "What things from MRQ should be (at least considered) for RQG"... perhaps the subject line disguised that. Would that have made a difference to this thread's location? (As I wrote above - if it was any other source of inspiration from any other game, the thread wouldn't have been moved) Just curious!

DI doesn't mean that a Divine Entity suddelnly shows up and automatically saves the party. It just means that an aspect of the entity grants a little bit of its power by taking some from the caller, to help it do something that it is capable of, but the caller isn't able to do (or, sacrificed POW for RPs, or has enough CHA, etc.) In the RGQ example, all that is given from the DI is a 6pt Lightning (with the loss of only 1 RP - would have been a bit more sucky if that cost 10RP/POW -b ut maybe the GM would have adjusted the Lightning). Said Lightning did 6D6 - 20pts of damage.. which just happens to hit the head. If the dice had've been nasty, 10RP/POW could have been lost for a measly 5pts of damage, and thus the DI was almost a complete waste of time! I'd say - Ancestor Spirits would be quite limited in their abilities to help - much more so than the gods. Maybe cast a couple of spells, or enter spirit combat or something... But, sometimes, something is better than nothing.

Under Wyter it says that the priest they're attached to gets to tell the wyter to cast spells, attack enemies, etc... Wyters lack INT, so they're not capable of deciding whether an action is good, bad, sound judgement, etc And, lastly, I wouldn't expect such a request to happen except in the most dire of cases, as in, almost out of POW, and the entire regiment is about to get wiped anyway (and, no-one in the regiment can DI). Huge avalanche that's about to take everyone (and everything) out. (not a great example, but it just came to mind)

I'm not surprised, but... a) no. I was pointing out that people have opinions which cloud fair and reasonable objective judgement. If there's nothing I can do about that, then fine. I do consider it unprofessional and immature. (to contrast, you can say I'm naive...) b) no. I thing MRQ has some good points, and the above opinions represent an unfair (and emotional) bias against them. I tried to use an example, however I chose one that was wrong. I admitted it (something I'm noticing you're having a problem with - unless you truly honestly believe there is absolutely nothing positive in al the thousands of pages of MRQ material (which, as I've been saying over here, is not only attacking the company, but all the individuals who worked on it as well...). 3) Yes, I did slag off Chaosium for not having ETAs on products. Remember that an ETA is an "estimated time of arrival", and those estimates can change. I accept that - unless an estimate is 2 (or 20) years wrong (which is historically factual as well!) I'm quite capable of slagging off Mongoose for poor products, as well as Chaosium for no time lines at all! I try to be fair like that! Yeah... I do get aggressive when simple honesty becomes relegated to the sidelines in order to keep up the rage. The simple honesty of "X was a good feature - perhaps we should consider it". I was wrong about Acolytes (third time I've said that now!) Am I completely wrong about the watermarked artwork on each page? The front covers? Heroic Abilities (which make for great HQ rewards)? You miss ignore my point because it challenges your butthurt fanboi-ism.

That's what I hate about this world... the need to fight for something that's actually fair...

Thx. yeah, I didn't think I'd seen in the most recent iteration...

Unless the PC is the Wyter's Priest... in which it could just be commanded to DI - if necessary.

Where is this? (as a mechanic, not merely a mention)

If you're going into Magasta's Pool, and then the Hero Plane - perhaps that was a Jar-eel

And makes you look like a Chaos creature... And that's why I support Tottenham!

Can a Wyter DI?

(moving from the other thread... also, I'm half PC and half mobile - so I'm hoping this posts works the way I want it to!) @Joerg @styopa Thanks for your views and trying to get others to see things from a different perspective. Thanks @metcalph. Not only are you missing my point (which I'm beginning to think is intentional by everyone), but you're actually helping to prove it! This "shut up and go away" mentality is the problem I see. I have no issue with people not liking MRQ, or even hating it, if that's their feeling. I'm not trying to convince anyone to change that (and I'm quite certain I've not even hinted at that in the other thread). What I actually am trying - almost desperately - to have happen is what I'd think *every* fan of a series wants... For each subsequent iteration to learn from the previous editions... Reject the bad, and keep the GOOD. This total and complete rejection of MRQ fails to do that. And, in all those posts above about this (excepting a few), that's what the fans (here) want as well - to deliberately NOT have the best RQ and Glorantha possible. You seem to only want a RQ that's the best... minus any possible thing from the Mongoose edition. And, by definition, that means it can't be the best (if it's not known about/deliberately ignored). To be blunt, I think this fanboi (and fangerl - if any posting here) butthurt "never say anything positive" attitude to MRQ's treatment of *your* Glorantha both immature and unprofessional. While the latter doesn't mean much to most, it is highly relevant to the designers and publishers. Proof of this is in the form of the posts above... Not a single person who hates MRQ has been willing to admit that, amongst the thousands of pages of MRQ material, not a single new idea (well-implemented or not) is even "ok", let alone "good". ( @Joerg, thanks for the new thread!) One of the points I posted was wrong. I accepted it. I admitted it. Can anyone here do the same? Better yet, for all you butthurt fanbois - can you a build a bridge and just get over it finally??? No, it's not unfair. As I posted above here directly to Jeff, there's a HUGE difference between "Mongoose" the company, publisher, etc, and Mongoose, the large group of individual people who wrote material for it, drew art for it, did layouts and designs, etc etc etc. Rejecting everything out of hand is supposed to be a statement about the company and management. It shouldn't be about those contracted to write pieces for it. I don't know the current relationships between the various individuals involved here, but they appear to be amicable. 

Logically, wouldn't this be more appropriate in this forum? I mean, any other discussion of an idea, houserule, etc for RQG would be fine over here... it's merely the "OMG, that's a Mongoose thing" that's stopping it from being in this thread (which is the whole point we've been saying recently). If I said "Hey, there's this great idea in White Wolf that RQG players should really look at", I wouldn't expect a whole new forum to be opened up.