Shiningbrow

I know it's frustrating Bill. There is a certain logic behind it though... and it does directly related to the thread. Charisma (and Lie and Clever Tongue, Glamour) can all be used on/against friends and allies in an attempt to 'manipulate' them to get them to do what you want. Bladesharp having a visual aspect mostly doesn't matter (except for aesthetics, and occasionally stealth rolls). And that's all I'm going to say on the C-word matter. I don't think spells like Disrupt, Demoralize or Befuddle should have a visual component... but that's very much my idea. Seeing someone casting - absolutely. Not knowing what they're casting, and at who/what makes the game more interesting. (ie, have they just upped their defences? Have they upped their offence? Have they just tried to summon something? Did their spell succeed or not? Why is Bill hanging back and not attacking like the rest of us?)

Hannibal Lecter ... Psycho/Sociopath who was very refined... I can see someone like that in Stormbull - and when it matters, goes Berserk and wipes out Chaos foes. (has a Heroic Ability to Clean Armour after battles, so he doesn't look ruffled :p)

Sad. Not surprised. IIRC, the spirits they were talking to were call the Pari, which comes from Islamic mythology anyway! (well, I'll rephrase that - became associated with the Islamic tradition after Islam came along and altered their beliefs).

Have you thrown those into the RQ questions thread?

Fair... but hopefully rare. You're actually helping my argument here... if an Ernaldan Priestess is resorting to using this spell in the meeting, it should be something really important and serious... and not just a random "I want Tacos for lunch" (champion or food...)

Basic rules for it certainly don't. MRQ managed to do up something effective, and combine it with their version of God Learner Sorcery... However, a huge GoG book should have listings for various HQ myths... or, as you suggested, its own book.

I agree it happens, However, the acceptability example you used is light-years away from the example I was using. Your example is one that I would understand and agree with. It is intentional and aggressive. And doesn't really relate to the use of Charisma to woo your peers in the Tribal Council meeting.

p 315... "Using a Rune spell literally channels part of the power of a god to affect the Mundane World; it is not an invisible act! The caster always exhibits some form of manifestation of the magical powers at their disposal. The caster might appear to grow larger (even if their SIZ is unaffected), burn with an inner glow, crackle lightning from their fingertips, or even start to physically resemble the image of the deity." (some might argue that the 'burn with an inner glow" might be very subtle...) No, the Ernalda Priestess is not casting that spell in the middle of the meeting with the Lunars and Yelmalians in occupied territory just to get the upper hand in a debate... Is she doing in the council meeting with the Orlanthi, LM, Issaries, etc etc tribal council? Still, in my Glorantha, I'd consider it grossly inappropriate and disrespectful to the other leaders.

"A Rune spell can only be cast using a Rune that the originating deity has listed". After all, that's the power they're channelling. (It'd be curious that many Chalana Arroy initiates would have an Earth higher than either Fertility or Harmony). And, as per Associated Cults spells, you have to use the Rune of the deity that provides the spell.. Ernalda is not providing the spell to CA. Again, one thing that's missing from RQ in order to make the game a little easier on players is the use of common names for magic... So, instead of Heal Body, there should be Chalana's Joy, and Ernalda's Blessing of Health. If we had those as part of the rules, then there wouldn't be an issue which Runes to be using. This currently doesn't seem to be a rule, and in fact there's a line that runs contrary to it in the RGQ book "rolls a Rune affinity the adventurer shares with the spell" (my emphasis)

Cool! Not surprised! Congrats, and good luck!

I'm still not getting whether you think this is ok all of the time, or only some of the time... (even if that 'some' is 'most')

You've managed to say exactly the sort of thing I've been thinking as I read through the Source Book. And, like you, I started on RQ back at first edition (without reading the backgrounds etc... I usually played the weird stuff that the others didn't)

But... would they allow the guy to wear his Bear shirt so he could transform? (ie, go Berserk) Some things in some situations are acceptable. At other times, not. In the other example we're using, and to try for an analogy, if there's a meeting (say, the Lunars are chatting with the Orlanthi and Yelmalians about property rights, tariffs, taxes and tributes), and someone brings down their deity with a big showy flash of light and huge glowy aura - how will the others react? "Oh, cool - yeah, ok, you've convinced us"? or...??? Which, as I've said, takes us back to the OP question - is such magic flashy or not? If it's not obvious, is there a good reason for that? Lie is specifically written with "undetectable casting". Here, obviously, is where our Gloranthas differ... (I'd probably have that initially the spell has a glowy effect and a calling down light... which fades after about 10 seconds, but the caster has a very strong aura about them (not that people can usually see auras). I don't disagree. The have nots aren't always pleased to be so, or to have the haves showing off.

There was (maybe still is) in northern Pakistan (way up in the more isolated mountainous region) that animists (basically 'shaman', although that's actually a form of cultural appropriation) live in a non-nomadic or barbarian society - ie, they live in houses, and do all the usual stuff that city-dwellers do. Shinto is not too far off as well (but, depends on definitions...), and that's very much in civilised society relating to a Man Rune. Not only are they honouring the ancestors, but also the local spirits as well (could probably use the word 'deity' here too).

True. I"m just pointing out that in Glorantha, there is the weird and wonderful. So, a Stormbull with Harmony is possible!

Yep... (as in, yes it's true, but...) However, I understand the logic you give. P283 - yes, you have to use the associated cult's Rune for the spell... which would be as @Joerg has it written above - if you get Charisma from Ernalda, you'd probably need to use Fertility, if you get it from Yinkin, you'd probably need to use Beast... ie, shouldn't get to use whichever Rune is your highest... I'd say it's actually 3 different spells, from 3 different deities, and we meta-gamers just happen to use the same name for it for convenience sake.

If that's the case, the first thing to do as GM - before even starting - is to decide what visual and other sensory effects your spells will have... if any! And, what's the general attitude to using magic in various situations... especially on/around friends, clan members, etc.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?6216-If-Spells-and-Abilities-Were-Written-How-My-Players-Use-Them D&D, but still a bit apt... Perhaps we should try for an RQ version?? 😛

Gelmollan is still Lkankor Mhy or Humakt. I get the Water to Glass - just the wrong word (because we think we know what glass is...). Stasis, to me, is fine. If it was Water to Ice, it'd need the Cold rune! Ecstasy - make it a ritual like the Issaries Market spells... 15 min, plus Etxension otherwise. Instead of contagious, just make it an area affect. (might not be your intent, I know, but still....). OTOH, you could just create a Passion Spirit for Ecstasy, having the same/similar effects, with contact making the spirit leave the first person and going to the next. p181

The current version works pretty much the same...

My first thought as well.....

Orlanthi are (shadow)cat lovers...

Perhaps, but I don't agree that the analogy actually fits. I"m sure all the council members also have 'aides', and can get in lots of information (not quite realtime, but possible... I can see the Lhankor Mhy sorcerer being asked to supply answers to questions using magic). The examples you (and others) have used like this are more like an Augment than an invocation to the Goddess. Anyway, it seems that our Gloranthas vary in a fundamental way, and none are likely to change views (although, @PhilHibbs did say he painted himself into a corner...). In that, if the magic is obvious, then it's ok. If it's subtle (and needs to remain hidden) then perhaps it's not... However, if it is open and obvious, then people just might wonder why it is that you feel you need to use it (obviously, these would be the people with an opposing viewpoint) (Quck edit - Charisma uses the Illusion, Fertility and Beast Runes.... FWIW)

Going back to the OP - if Charisma has an in-game obvious effect, which wouldn't be like the "advantage" or skill or trait. And, it is specifically calling upon the Goddess to empower the person with a power that they themselves don't actually have (differentiating between the power itself, and the ability to call upon the power - which is closer to your 'advantage' above). Using the above techniques described about eye contact, etc, is already included in the skills - Charm, Orate and Fast Talk. However, analogising to Earth, we'd be really pissed off if someone was able to hypnotise us into doing things we're not happy with. Or dropping Roofies into drinks. That salesperson says "I've got that exact same model at home" is perfectly ok if they do (or, you believe they do). But, when you hear them say that to every customer about every brand, then you'd be pretty pissed off (mostly at yourself for being gullible) I don't think anyone has suggested Charisma (and its ilk) can't be used - including in those important clan meetings. I have suggested that perhaps people may not want it I'd like to think that, but it's not always clear. The battle of the queens in Notchet would be an example of this. And, here we disagree... especially when we're talking about calling upon the Gods. Q: Do Charisma and Glamour stack? As Shield and Protection/Countermagic do? Or (Weapon)Trance and Bladesharp?

Just pointing out... Create (Great) Market only uses the Harmony Rune - no Man involved. Oddly enough, Charisma (from Ernalda) uses Beast, and not Man (along with Illusion and Fertility!) I imagine the Peace Rune spell also uses Harmony, and not Man.