Shiningbrow

But... Rune and Spirit magic have won that battle (for now!) And, to an extent, Dragon magic (practised by very few, in their own little group). And Sorcery has been shunted to its own little part of the world. By far and away, the most common magic across the world is Rune and Spirit magic. Sorcery has been relegated to the fringes, and while feared, isn't a serious threat to the populations as a whole. The semblance of 'balance' is only given because a) it's usually too far away for most to really care about, and b) most sorcerers haven't done anything to warrant a pogrom. When the sorcerers did decide to get more powerful (and, in this sense, that didn't mean controlling the rest of the world, but easily could have), it took divine means to rein them in (and, obviously, they did this to themselves by imposing their will upon the divine). If they were more conquest-oriented (and didn't have the EWF to contend with - again, not focussed on the Rune/Spirit magic), the MSE would have completely dominated the world because of their magic. Glorantha is a dynamic world... and those 'balances' change... often daily! RGQ puts us in a time where it looks balanced (maybe), and in one small part of the lands (ie, the Spirit & Rune parts). Just like we're also in the part which is mostly dominated by lawful cults, not overrun by Chaos... but that's elsewhere... The world isn't fair. There isn't balance. (personally, I loathe the need for 'balance' in games like D&D... far too linear and restricted... and thus, uninteresting!)

Dominate Human? (and, yes, before someone points it out, I would presume a Passion roll to help resist)

Actually, it does. Certainly for 80%, a few for 90%... and there are prodigies in the world who master something at a very young age. Why 80%? Because of a thing called an 'apprenticeship'. You get 4 years of practical and theoretical training. You come out at the end being capable of doing your job quite well. If a chef is asked to do a meal, they can do it well easily 80% of the time... A good blacksmith will make that sword 80% of the time with no issues (probably more often). 4 years of military training, and you will be hitting that target most of the time. 4 years of martial arts training will make you that competent. 4 years of language training should (if you're not a lazy sh*t like a lot of the students I've had) make you near fluent in a language (ie, 80% or higher)... especially if you've lived in the country and actively tried to learn the language. And, all of that is only presuming a starting character is 21, and has started doing those things from age 17... If a child starts cooking, or smithing, or shooting, or fighting, of speaking, or any other skill from say, 6 years old, they're going to be a *lot* better at it than above (which is why we do have fluent multi-lingual speakers, as an example _ (again, if they're not lazy little sh*ts, like most of my students 😛 ). The skills that our PCs start with are basic skills that one has usually learned from an early point in their life (remembering that this will actually be around 13-15 years old, especially for cult skills). Since most people in the land should actually be farmers and herders etc, that would actually mean they've been doing those occupational skills from about 6 years old. (and, just for shits and giggles - let's not get started on Passions such as a devotion to a temple or deity.... 🙄🙄) For another current, real world example based on age - how are your computer operation skills, compared to most teenagers and youngsters these days? (presuming, of course, that you don't fit into that category yourself). Kids are far more tech-savvy than the majority of their parents... 100% is not "technical perfection". It's technical *mastery*. It's the point at which you should be able to achieve the task desired, under normal circumstances, with no hinderances, to a passable level, within the expected timeframe. Musashi, at age 21 (taking what was said above) wasn't merely getting a basic success - he was hitting specials and crits in weaponsmithing *regularly*... that's much higher than 100% base chance! (maybe he had some magical help???)

Because it takes good (better than average) stats and years of practice to be proficient enough to be able to cast that sorcery spell reliably enough, versus hours or days to cast the 1.5 damage spirit magic. Also, the Divine magician can get a LOT more bang for buck in a pretty short period of time. Getting even 1 sorcery to do the 5 points damage at 100m takes way longer than the 100 local clanspeople to learn the 1.5 point damage... so, who's more likely to "trounce the world"? (RAW, Disruption would normally take 1 week to learn to do 1D3 at 25m for 1MP, at an average of 55% chance. Financial cost might be 50L. Quite a few potential teachers around - priests, God Talkers, Runelords, members of associated cults, the occasional shaman. OTOH, to get off a sorcery spell effectively, minimum of 1 Rune and 1 technique need to be learned (max 1 per season), then the spell needs to be taught and trained/practiced or cast effectively to grant experience rolls (for a PC, 1/season per 1D6-1 or less). Average stats for a sorcerer (low) would be INT 13, POW maybe 13, CHA 13 (not a great sorcerer, so going higher would make sense - but the magic modifier is unlikely to be 15%... to get to 55% is going to take years! And, not a lot of teachers around...)

You're obviously not illuminated 😛

The choice for my vote ....? I forgot 😛 I was umming and ahing over Gods/Races and GM/Sorcery... chose one, then started reading... and forgot which one I finally decided on. Cults are hugely important in Glorantha, and having a full ruleset to go with that is also vitally important. Also, I suspect a number of players will want a sorcerer around to play, and will want the full rules for that (what's in the RQG book just whets the appetite... it needs more!) OTOH, I'd like to see a regular magazine come out again, but with a lot of fan-made material (particularly the scenarios people were requesting). I understand that the people at Chaosium will be snowed under, and having people write up their own scenarios may help in getting stuff out to the gaming community (as requested above), with minimal effort from the publishers (especially with the abundance of software available to the public... formatting becomes somewhat closer to a breeze than 30 years ago). My vote, however. was qualified by reading that a) GOG will be coming out in the not massively distant future, and b) that it will contain HQ rules... I'm interested in RQG - and that Glorantha is really important (where else do you find Humakti Sword Ducks???) Not high on my list (but above the Non-G settings) would be minis.... even though my current circumstances suck (I'm currently in China, and would really love to return to Melbourne, Ozlandia), some of those unique minis are just nice and so I might actually buy! Ooops - looks like my 2 bolgs is running out now, I better sign off!

Didn't he invent the Humakti Sword Spell Schrodinger's Cut? 😆

Appeal to Inappropriate Authority is a logical fallacy. Appealing to a very appropriate authority who gives a relevant opinion on the topic is perfectly valid!

Sorry, I meant the spell casting could be augmented by ritual practices - not the knowledge skill itself. For this spell? (which is what I'm referring to). How often was this spell being used in that sort of situation (Need to do it now, not in 5 minutes)? I know she is... but I'm saying most players choosing to go sorcerer wouldn't choose scribe. (if they're just using sorcery, then perhaps). Would you inform them of this beforehand? Or just be evil and wait for it to happen?

Ah, I didn't add the starting 3RPs to your extra 2 for Extension.... My bad! However, in saying that... If I was GM, I'd be loathe to give the bonus to both hands for the 1 spell. 1 sword - sure! 2...??? (after all, Bladesharp, which is what this is similar to, is only for 1 sword). I remember the days of Right Hand/Left Hand skills... I do get the added HP for the sword - just not sure it's worth it, that's all... But that just might be me.

Sorry, I'm confused... where's all this from? (I get Sword Trance is 10% per MP, and it's a 1 RP spell... I don't get teh "2 extra PW to have a Season-long ...". And I'm not seeing the great benefit of the +50% HP to a sword)

You obviously make some good points (possibly even magic points... har har har...). To me, the biggest problem is the 'active' trait. Personally, I wouldn't go 100% in the skill, because it can be boosted by meditation/ritual, and rarely would it be in a "OMG, I desperately need to get this spell of right now or we're all doomed" situation. While you lose the ability to Inspire through Passions, skills can still be augmented through other means, including Runes. RE: MP's to fire it up... there's always Steal Breath.... (second most OP spell???)... one casting at base intensity 1 gets you 1D6 MP per round for 5 minutes...thus, one little 8 MP (at worst) spell gives back 25D6 MPs (chances of not being in a place that has lots of air are... pretty low... (of course, what Orlanth and other Air Rune beings might think of this is another matter)). This leaves the option to drop the spell as needed (see below on re-casting with a full MP pool - unless you're taking from spirits). I'm sure you wouldn't want to be on a ship with a 5 minute expert... but I'm sure you'd much rather be on that ship with said 5-minute expert (plus extra slots of duration), than be forced to take refuge on a ship with no expert at all for any length of time (but, perhaps your Glorantha varies...). As for the Active status... very annoying, and thus long durations won't be a good idea... but those with a high INT should be rolling around 60% to keep concentrating (higher if they've got Enhance INT on). If Solara was a Philosopher (as I imagine most sorcerers will start out), then she'd have 2 Runes and 2 Techniques... (and 6 spells!) (I'd also strongly consider expending the POW to put this spell into a matrix for the boosts) The question(s) remains then - if this isn't the most OP spell in the game, firstly are there any? And, if so, which?

But, it's only temporary (I don't recall seeing the DI bit in previous versions.. but, maybe that's my faded memory...).

It'd be only fair - he's called a "Bad Man" for a reason... :p TBH, yes, I did actually think that.. dishonouring or disrespecting one's ancestors, etc...

Well, unless you're Humakti or Yelmalian, you wouldn't be getting those strings, nor stats, anyway! (well, you could always get yourself a Chaos trait... would you allow a DI to choose your own? 🤣🤣🤣)

I don't think it's too munchkinny... it's actually the intelligent thing to do (multiple castings of the same spell, for different skills. One could argue about the 'same casting over-writes' rule... but that just means having only 1 skill at 160%... still pretty big!) Cult Lore includes "...myths, beliefs, Heroquests...". I'm actually shocked/surprised that Cult Lore (insert) isn't a required skill for any of the levels of Initiate and beyond. Sure, you have to be passionate about your god/temple, but in theory, you don't actually need to know anything about it! (House Rule would be to include it as mandatory). Another easy option - as Spirit Lore is a Magical skill, move Cult Lore to Magical as well (which would make sense for the Heroquest knowledge!)

Back to annoy again.... As per the RAW, surely the sorcery spell is the most OP spell in the game? Sure, it's only about *any* knowledge skill, and you don't have to specify which skill when you learn the spell, but surely it would mean that any LM initiate is suddenly fully knowledgable in *any* cult lore, and thus has access to every single cult secret on Glorantha. That's on top of the more mundane uses it has (which, realistically, would also include doing the rolls for seasonal income, for skills like Read/Write, Bureaucracy, Manage Household... and previously mentioned, Battle). "Does anyone know how to sail this ship?"... "yeah, give me a minute...". "50L for this lovely ring - pure gold!".... <chant chant, zing>... "rubbish - it's fake and not worth 10". "Help help, I've been bitten by a snake!" <mumble mumble> "No problem I know exactly what to do...". Perhaps a rewrite of this spell is in order??? At the very least, it would make sense that it can only be applied to knowledge skills you have already taken, or are over the 00 base. (really, this post should be in the munchkin thread...)

Is that a rule somewhere? (I mean, other than the species max bit...). Would a god care about your species max?

He has the skills, the spells, and the POW to sacrifice... so why not?

How did you get 12 geasa? Firstly, an Initiate of Humakt is only allowed 3 geasa upon initiation - and so even if it were the non-raisable, you could only take it 3 times, each with 3 geasa, for a total of 9 geasa... not 12. Those 9 would only take you to 24 at character creation. Obviously, if you became a Sword, you could get the last point, but for a 5% boost??? Secondly, by my reckoning, DEX is a "raisable characteristic", and thus would only require1 geas per point of DEX, not 3 as above. (DEX can be trained off-season)

That works... (although, not sure about the "every time you participate in a worship ceremony", but certainly with casting (and acquiring) Rune spells/points. I'd also say, that's something that should be strongly pointed out, especially to new players.

Again, how is anyone going to know? (which was the crux of my question). Let alone, how are the various associated gods of LM going to feel about it? "...Unlike that wonderful believer Sorala, and her wondrous, god-given magic!" This response is merely part of the 'prejudice' I mentioned above... (also need to remember that one of Vasana's primary runes is the Moon... weird choice for an Orlanthi ... "create some tension")

I notice the various 'soul' viewing spells don't pick up on whether someone has practised or learned any sorcery. And, in fact, there appears to only be that one very specific shamanic ability (which, given the number of other abilities out there, I doubt many would bother taking) that can detect the presence of sorcery (Second Sight - Enhanced). So, shamans might know if someone has learned sorcery, and possibly may even care... So, if there's no obvious and quick way to know of this - not counting Truth spells, obviously..., what's to stop theists from learning a little? (other, obviously, than cultural stereotypes and prejudices... and probable lack of basic availability... time... money...). I also doubt that most gods care enough about their initiates to be watching carefully their every action - so both the learning and practising, and then the use of, sorcery wouldn't register. Perhaps gods care a little more about their higher ranking worshippers, but wouldn't that break the compromise?? A Rune Lord's allied spirit might tell... but that's still a maybe... In the main book, Vasana needs to turn to Damastol to find out where they all need to go. It takes all of a few minutes to get the answer. As arrogant as that wizard is, surely Vasana's got to be thinking "you know, that is actually pretty cool. I wish I could do that!" In older RQs, sorcery was strictly forbidden - but again, I didn't notice a mechanism for determining if someone had actually studied it or not. I'd also ask the same question of whether someone has awakened their fetch or not - but I presume that the above mentioned spells would show that up in a person's aura (or, at least, something along the lines of "you seem to have a strange spirit hanging around you... which, energetically, looks a heck of a lot like you!")

My alzheimers may have kicked in... My memory says I saw a 1 or 2 line bit in a book under Orlanth, stating that Kolat was an Associated cult (because of their relationship), and so Kolat gave a rune spell... And that was it! (IIRC, not even a write-up on Kolat in that book) I'm not finding it in my materials

Except for the Counter-Magic buff....