Rodney Dangerduck

It's up to your group. As for us, in one future I'd like my Vinga Wind Lady to defeat Jareel, marry Argrath, and their children rule for generations. In a more realistic future, I hope that our PCs will certainly meet and interact with most of the great heroes, on both sides. And perform missions for them, perhaps fighting against (or contesting with, our games are combat heavy), not the enemy heroes directly, but their lieutenants.

The Chaosium White Bull campaign features Enkala, a Storm Bull shaman. (She might be only an "assistant" in season one) Unlike Daka Fal, Waha, and Yelm, Storm Bull does not explicitly "support" shamen in the rules. I take that to mean that other cults generally allow shamen.

A shaman, especially a PC shaman who breaks the usual rules like PCs do, can come from most any cult. I agree that shaman are very effective PCs. Claiming that Waha is a fine effective PC cult because it's members can be shamans is almost meaningless. Would one claim that Humakt is a "good knowledge cult" because it's members can also join LM? Our party has a Eurmal shaman. He's super effective because he can do those awesome shamany things. And, in addition, he can Lie, Crack, and go Invisible!

O.K. What are some examples of things that Vishi has Dunn (haha), as a Waha Initiate, that contributed to resolving the scenarios? If his contributions have largely been as a shaman, or through Cousin Monkey, they don't really count, as they don't tie into Waha. I like the idea presented in this thread that Waha is a good lead in cult for PC to become a Shaman. But that's pretty PC-ish - clearly not every Waha initiate becomes a shaman.

I like how that works to limit PC murder hobos. A good intent and effect. But brings up some issues: Who should be this absolute arbiter? The GM's ruling? The table in the rules that doesn't mention ambushes? Given that Glorantha allows, even demands, that multiple conflicting myths are all still "true", I would expect that there would be multiple cultural and mythical interpretations of honor. For example, our PCs are overall fairly honorable IMO, but with different emphasis. The Humakti is fairly willing to kill downed enemies, "everybody dies", but dead set against ambushes. My Vingan, in her "protector of the weak" aspect, is very reluctant to finish off downed enemies, but o.k. with most ambushs.

As for those who think that honor only applies to honorable opponents, to paraphrase Matthew 5:46, "what honor do you gain? Do not even the Lunars do the same?"

True. Hopefully the GoG book will reflect some of this.

Strongly agree. Is Honor "external", i.e., how others view your acts, "internal", how you view your acts acts in accord with your principals of honor, which may differ slightly between PCs, or some mix, or something else? I've seen this question come up in various discussions.

This is meaningless. Issaries, Argan Argar, and Pavis make absolutely no claim to be combat warrior cults. They provide many other opportunities for PC role play and to let them "shine" in action and missions. Waha and Yelmalio are presented as "traditional" male oriented warrior cults.

Minor but important nitpick: Reputation is whether people think (or know) about you. Not necessarily whether they approve of you.

@Jeff Since Heal 2 was (maybe still is?) required to stop bleeding, why is Waha mythically limited to Heal 1? That's a big play issue, and it would be good to know the myth behind it. Thanks.

Page 234 lists 13 causes of dishonor. Nowhere does the term "ambush" or "surprise" appear. The list may be incomplete, and maybe they should be causes of dishonor, but, as written, they are not clearly dishonorable.

It's worth considering. One issue you run into is that a fighter with 100% parry skill and Earth shield becomes close to invulnerable. (There are ways...)

I strongly agree here. If Telmori were innately chaotic, I can't reconcile the highly Orlanthi Kings of Sartar making them their elite bodyguards and intermarrying. That would be like a Spanish King, the "Most Catholic Majesty", marrying Elizabeth I or employing Swedes as his bodyguards over several generations.

Disagree - guess that my Glorantha varies... You seem to argue that Broos are chaotic because they are "born that way". I don't see this approach as much different from D&D alignments, where Beholders are Evil because they are born that way. In Glorantha, a being may become chaotic via actions such as rape, torture, worshipping certain gods (say, from Cults of Terror) and taking on chaotic features. I prefer that these actions come from Free Will, not Predestination. YGMV.

I believe that this is contradictory and wrong. There's a lot of chaos present and happily existing in Glorantha. The correct thought process is that Chaos is akin to the Judaeo Christian story of Original Sin. Something "wrong", that was not part of the golden age, (if you wish, back then it was outside of the universe) but chaos leaked into and contaminated the world due to a serious mistake. The Great Compromise declared that Chaos is not part of the "correct" Glorantha. The pragmatist in me thinks that a bit silly, but it is the dogma that your characters are taught. As for chaotic creatures being tied to the chaos rune, o.k., but that just begs the question: Why does certain behavior tie the offender to the chaos rune, while other, apparently similar behavior, does not?

He has two rune spells for that: Clever Tongue and Lie. He hardly needs another. Without Charisma, Donandar has no rune spells to assist Dance and Sing. Not entirely sure how Harmonize and Group Dance fit in.

I realize that Donandar is a minor cult, and also that Chaosium has a lot on their plate. Overall they are doing a great job. With that said, leaving Charisma off the Donandar rune spell list is an oversight. I expect most groups (including ours) will quickly add it as their Glorantha varies.

Perhaps there should be a "help you hide" spirit magic spell, but I don't think that Shimmer is it.

Our Eurmali put on an Esrolian style opera (if they even exist?) of "The Magic Flute" when we were visiting Argrath in Pavis. Very strange to us. The player really loved it. He's really into music - actually, several of our players enjoy it, and Sing, Dance, and/or Play Instrument are common skills for most of our PCs. One reason I'm being an admitted butthead here is that my Vinga PC, a great singer by background and fluke of the skill increase rolls, just bought a Stradivarius (well, a very pricey Masterwork Lute) and I'd like to try roleplaying her musical side much more, and joining Donandar. If Orlanth is better for singers, as Jeff agrees, that's a bit disappointing. But O.K., will figure out something.

Yes, I agree, Charisma is a wonderful spell, and my Vinga worshipper uses it a lot. Especially when she sings. Donandar, the God of Entertainers, does not have it. At least not in the information presented here by Darius and Jeff. Which seems an oversight, as it would be a big boost to many of their key skills. (They do have Glamour spirit magic) As currently constructed, Orlanth seems a better cult for singers than Donandar.

Not my intent. CA are good at negotiations, fighting disease afflicting a village, etc. Very useful in many situations. Frankly, I find them more interesting, and sometimes more useful, out of combat. That's where they get "the limelight". Same for shamen. If entertainers shouldn't be going into danger, why would you want to play one? I guess they do join other cults as you suggest.

Every sane human party would welcome a CA or similar PC. Trolls would love a XU. Incredibly useful in many situations. Most all groups will gain much benefit from a friendly party shaman. BTW, shamen are freaking awesome and fun to play in a wide variety of situations. @Jeff Perhaps I have a basic misunderstanding. Is the designer's intent that most all PCs in the smaller, highly focused cults will also join a more mainstream cult? If so, the supposed "weaknesses" of the smaller cult are much less important and not worth all of my fussing.

The Donandar PC exists in a world where they may have to heal themselves or others in the party. Or Dismiss a baleful magical effect. Saying that they are "just for Music, Dance and Theatre" cuts them off from blending into, and contributing to, a PC party facing the dangerous world.

Why force good roleplayers to join a 2nd cult to get basic survival spells? Why apply a harsh penalty? RQ should be encouraging them by making Donandar a reasonably compete and useful cult. The comment about freedom of movement is a good one. But since "join Ernalda or Orlanth" was the solution suggested to make up for Donandar's shortcomings, not going to apply. That's more support for my position - make Donandar "good enough" that one can make up a reasonable PC from it.