First Aid Clarification

[Brian C]

Hey Everyone,

I was hoping I could get some help on the First Aid skill?  On my first attempt at reading I failed my roll : ) ( LOL actually I re-read it more than a few times)

I love the idea of first aid and want to use it properly but must admit the rules confuse me in the wording.  I am a very precise person and words matter but I see a few ways to use First Aid.

The way I read it from page 149 is that first aid stops bleeding, revives characters and can restore HPs.  (I love how you can actually do first aid on wounds and not just hit locations).  But it seems that a successful first aid roll allows you to heal 1D3 damage to an  injured location. Then it says that a failed roll means no damage was healed.  The wound is bandaged but no benefit comes from the treatment.

How I read that is that in order to stop bleeding all you need to do is use the first aid skill (no roll needed) on an injured player and you automatically stop bleeding.  But you only roll against that skill if you want to restore HP.

Then when I read up on the skill on page 177 it gives me the impression I need to roll to stop bleeding.

These seem contradictory to me.  

So the way I think it should be implemented from what I read is: if you want to stop bleeding you do the first aid skill and roll against it.  If you succeed you stop bleeding.

If you want to restore HP you roll against your first aid skill and if successful roll a die to see how many HP you restore.

So you can basically do 2 different types of first aid. The first one is more critical first aid so to speak and the second one is setting someone up for healing.

It mentions reviving a character but I honestly have no clue how to implement that one.  Would this be a third type of first aid?  First you roll to stop bleeding, then you roll against first aid to revive them, then you can roll a third time to heal?  Of course taking the appropriate amount of time for each type of first aid treatment?

I did search the forum out but could find nothing so am hoping someone could shed some light.  I'm working my way through the combat system now and am adding a new complexity.

Thanks for any help

Brian

Edited August 8, 2019 by Brian C

[Joerg]

23 minutes ago, Brian C said:

Hey Everyone,

I was hoping I could get some help on the First Aid skill?  On my first attempt at reading I failed my roll : ) ( LOL actually I re-read it more than a few times)

I love the idea of first aid and want to use it properly but must admit the rules confuse me in the wording.  I am a very precise person and words matter but I see a few ways to use First Aid.

The way I read it from page 149 is that first aid stops bleeding, revives characters and can restore HPs.  (I love how you can actually do first aid on wounds and not just hit locations).  But it seems that a successful first aid roll allows you to heal 1D3 damage to an  injured location. Then it says that a failed roll means no damage was healed.  The wound is bandaged but no benefit comes from the treatment.

How I read that is that in order to stop bleeding all you need to do is use the first aid skill (no roll needed) on an injured player and you automatically stop bleeding.  But you only roll against that skill if you want to restore HP.

Then when I read up on the skill on page 177 it gives me the impression I need to roll to stop bleeding.

These seem contradictory to me.  

So the way I think it should be implemented from what I read is: if you want to stop bleeding you do the first aid skill and roll against it.  If you succeed you stop bleeding.

If you want to restore HP you roll against your first aid skill and if successful roll a die to see how many HP you restore.

So you can basically do 2 different types of first aid. The first one is more critical first aid so to speak and the second one is setting someone up for healing.

You need to roll whenever you use First Aid. But you have the choice whether to use First Aid just to stop the bleeding (which takes one melee round) or whether you use it to heal damage (which takes five melee rounds). The difference (IMO) is that the person applying First Aid doesn't do any other active stuff in that time. Also, if the giver of First Aid parries or dodges in that time, the recipient uses 2 hit points. Same if the First Aid giver or recipient casts a Heal spell.

Basically, if you decide just to stop the bleeding, the chance for getting HP back is gone. On the plus side, the recipient can fight on without losing two hit points.

If you decide to go for the healing, more care (and possibly some needlework) is involved, and both characters are out of any other action for five melee rounds.

Quote

It mentions reviving a character but I honestly have no clue how to implement that one.  Would this be a third type of first aid? 

Revival of an unconscious character may occur if the 5 melee round version of First Aid brings the hit points from below zero up to 1 or more.

Quote

First you roll to stop bleeding, then you roll against first aid to revive them, then you can roll a third time to heal?  Of course taking the appropriate amount of time for each type of first aid treatment?

IMO you roll only once. You decide whether to just staunch the bleeding (a consequence of special hits or chest/abdomen/head wounds with more than location HP damage) or to heal hit points before the roll.

Interestingly, stopping the bleeding allows a re-roll if your first roll was a failure. I wouldn't allow a re-roll to heal any hit points, though.

A fumble will cost 1D3 hit points even on an attempt just to stop the bleeding.

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Joerg

[Prinz Slasar]

15 hours ago, Brian C said:

So you can basically do 2 different types of first aid. The first one is more critical first aid so to speak and the second one is setting someone up for healing.

Yep, you are right. There are two different types of first aid. [see p 139 "Skill and ability Time"]

15 hours ago, Brian C said:

It mentions reviving a character but I honestly have no clue how to implement that one.  Would this be a third type of first aid?  First you roll to stop bleeding, then you roll against first aid to revive them, then you can roll a third time to heal?  Of course taking the appropriate amount of time for each type of first aid treatment?

Yep, you are right. The third type of "First Aid" treatment is discussed on p 148

"First Aid takes one melee round if the intent is to stop an adventurer from bleeding [Type 1] or dying of their wounds [Type 3]. The success chance for this skill should be rolled immediately. If the roll succeeds, all bleeding stops and the victim is prevented from dying. If unsuccessful, the user may try again to stop the bleeding in the next round." [p 177-176]

The term "reviving" isn't clearly defined in RQG but refers to BRP [see p 58 in the Big Golden Book: "An unconscious character is revived".], so this is your missing Type 4 [the general version of Type 3]
 

Edited August 5, 2019 by prinz.slasar

[Brian C]

Thanks a lot for the replies  Joerg and prinz.slasar, I think its more clear now

I did have a look at the BRP book and it does show the revival aspect.  

I think one thing I need to keep in mind too is the is it fun rule. I thought that kind of cool.  So if I can some day get back to GM'ing I think I'll incorporate the BRP system and allow players to roll based on the kind of Medical Treatment they want to perform.  

I guess I just need to get more time in with the new version and remember that its been decades since I have last played.  I will make mistakes but as long as I learn along the way and have fun doing it, thats a good thing.  Until I can find an online group to join I will continue to play solo and absorb as much of the rules and lore as I can.

Thanks again

Brian

[g33k]

In this thread, to figure out "First Aid," I see cited:

• P.139
• Pp.148-149
• Pp.176-177
• An xref to BGB p.58

<ahem>

Chaosium, this appears... Sub-optimal.

[Brian C]

I think the fact its mentioned in multiple sections is fine.  They need to talk about it in damage and time etc and of course as a skill in the skill section.  But the part that I find troublesome is the language that they use is not always the same.  There has been more than a few times where I have read something in the rules and could take it multiple ways.  I think the writing is a little more loose than it should be, but thats just my perception.  With First Aid it wasn't until I went to BRP that it was all laid out in a way that made sense.  But I don't think I should need to look in another totally different book to find clarity.  The core rulebook should be tight from the start, especially to help totally new people understand the rules and how they fit in with the other mechanisms.

I wonder if in the end its about how we each as GMs customize and build the rules to fit our version of Glorantha.  I kind of got that vibe from a section earlier in the manual.  

 

[Bill the barbarian]

5 hours ago, Brian C said:

But I don't think I should need to look in another totally different book to find clarity.  The core rulebook should be tight from the start, especially to help totally new people understand the rules and how they fit in with the other mechanisms.

Thanks all! No, but thank you for doing so, anyway. Nice contribution to the community which is after all, how it works!

Cheers

Edited August 7, 2019 by Bill the barbarian

[Austin]

13 hours ago, Brian C said:

The core rulebook should be tight from the start, especially to help totally new people understand the rules and how they fit in with the other mechanisms.

I wonder if in the end its about how we each as GMs customize and build the rules to fit our version of Glorantha.  I kind of got that vibe from a section earlier in the manual.

My take is that both of these statements are accurate. You're not the only one who feels this way.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Crel