French Desperate WindChild Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Bonjour à toutes et tous I m not sure to use the good words, but let's try to be understandable If a mortal (human, dark troll, ...) wants to meet a god and be viewed by the god as himself (not with the mask of somegod the god knows) what can it try ? What I know: - Divination : but the discussion could be frustrating as very short and unclear - Shaman: at least in RQG, shaman can negotiate with a god so that means the go recognize the shaman as the shaman, doesn't it ? - Heroquest: but here you are not yourself; you incarnate another god, or some way are possible ? An example : Albert is a young scientist that nobody understand. He just discoverd that "Entropy" Rune is equal to "Moon" Rune merged with two "Chaos" Rune. Albert wants this discovery to be validate by some skilled people. But he doesn't know anyone. Except... Albert knows the knowing God, so he wants to discuss about the discovery, what are the impact, how he can continue his research, some advises, and why not after a beer or two, discuss about the %*!!* rule of woman beard etc... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordabdul Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said: If a mortal (human, dark troll, ...) wants to meet a god and be viewed by the god as himself (not with the mask of somegod the god knows) what can it try ? To interact with a God in any constructive way (such as a normal conversation) would mean that the God is able to act in Time, which goes against the Great Compromise. Of course a few things, like Divination and Divine Intervention, are kind of loopholes. There are also precedents of Gods breaking the Compromise in the past, but these tend to be for world shattering events. Other Gods can (in theory) be "seen", such as Kyger Litor who supposedly lives under the Castle of Lead in Dagori Inkarth, but frankly none of the trolls there have gotten any more than a glimpse of her once or twice, and they might have unknowingly just seen some Mistress Troll Priestess channeling her Goddess in a particularly impressive way. Or maybe it's trolls trying to show off. 8 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said: Except... Albert knows the knowing God, so he wants to discuss about the discovery, what are the impact, how he can continue his research, some advises Lankhor Mhy cultists are supposed to be searching for the Truth. They're scientists and philosophers. If you could casually call up your God and ask him to double-check your homework, that would be cheating, wouldn't it? Worse, it could be seen as an insult, as you're supposed to be searching for Knowledge, not be told what it is! So even if Lankhor Mhy could/wanted to break the Compromise, I don't think he would do it for that. However, if you really want to make it work like that in your Glorantha, you would have to figure out the economy of it. How expensive would it be to contact Lankhor Mhy? How often does it happen? I don't think anybody should be able to call their God willy nilly because in the case of Lankhor Mhy for instance that would break the whole idea of Initiates spending years to research things. One simple idea is to use the same kind of rolls and percentages as for Divine Intervention, where it's really only happening sometimes for Rune Priests. Add some expensive Rune points cost (possibly as high as a dozen Rune points, so you're forced to Meditate to bring the cost down, or make it a group ceremony), maybe it could work. 8 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said: and why not after a beer or two, discuss about the %*!!* rule of woman beard etc... IMHO Lankhor Mhy doesn't care about it -- it's most probably a rule that the cult imposes on themselves. It's not even tied to any actual mechanics so nothing forces you to wear a beard besides social pressure. You could totally play a character (of any gender, for that matter) that refuses to wear a beard. They would probably get shunned a lot by the Lankhor Mhy temple priests, but that can be an interesting theme and story to explore. However, note that the definition of "beard" is veeeeeerrryyyy liberal -- initiates that can't/don't want to grow facial hair don't typically wear a "fake beard" in the sense of a theatre prop or something. It's really more "a thing that hangs from your chin and/or jaw line". As a result, many initiates take this as an opportunity to wear cool looking and/or elaborate jewelry, like a necklace that hangs from your jaw instead of your neck. You can really make it your own. See the illustrations in RQG if you haven't spotted them yet. Edited January 4, 2020 by lordabdul 2 1 Quote Ludovic aka Lordabdul -- read and listen to The God Learners , the Gloranthan podcast, newsletter, & blog ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 8 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said: If a mortal (human, dark troll, ...) wants to meet a god and be viewed by the god as himself (not with the mask of somegod the god knows) what can it try ? The best way is through HeroQuesting. The mortal could Heroquest to journey to the God's home and meet the god there to talk to it. 8 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said: - Divination : but the discussion could be frustrating as very short and unclear Divination is really a Question and Answer session and is meant to be unclear. This is not really meeting the God. 8 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said: - Shaman: at least in RQG, shaman can negotiate with a god so that means the go recognize the shaman as the shaman, doesn't it ? Yes, Shamanic Discorporation might work. Some Deities react better to Shamans than others. this is one way that shamans know and allows them to interact with the Deity on a personal basis. 8 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said: - Heroquest: but here you are not yourself; you incarnate another god, or some way are possible ? Not necessarily. Many HeroQuests involve reenacting the Paths of another Deity or Hero. However, it is possible to perform a HeroQuest to get to a place, but once you are there, you can interact with the Deity as Yourself. This is what heroes typically do on their GodQuest to become a God. 1 Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 8 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said: An example : Albert is a young scientist that nobody understand. He just discoverd that "Entropy" Rune is equal to "Moon" Rune merged with two "Chaos" Rune. Albert wants this discovery to be validate by some skilled people. But he doesn't know anyone. Except... Albert knows the knowing God, so he wants to discuss about the discovery, what are the impact, how he can continue his research, some advises, and why not after a beer or two, discuss about the %*!!* rule of woman beard etc... This is what Heroes do. They find something out, get it validated and then proceed from there. There may be difficulties. Not everyone who comes to visit a God on the God Plane necessarily gets an audience. The HeroQuestor might find that all ways to the God are barred and that something special is required to get through. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 3 hours ago, soltakss said: Yes, Shamanic Discorporation might work. Some Deities react better to Shamans than others. Or more likely the deity will simply enslave the shaman. Or eat their soul, etc. 12 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said: If a mortal (human, dark troll, ...) wants to meet a god and be viewed by the god as himself (not with the mask of somegod the god knows) what can it try ? Each holy day, the worship ceremonies bring the initiated into the Gods World to view the god. But you will be among the "faceless" worshippers. Moving up the temple ranks, particularly to Rune Lord and Hero bring you closer and more individually towards your god. If you're talking about meeting some "other" god, then you really need to be a Hero and establish a presence of your own in the Gods World. And as others have noted, that means Heroquesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g33k Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 3 hours ago, soltakss said: This is what Heroes do. They find something out, get it validated and then proceed from there ... I usually see the "get it validated" as a personal experimental/experiential thing -- try your new discovery in play -- not as a appeal-to-authority validation. 1 Quote C'es ne pas un .sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 36 minutes ago, g33k said: I usually see the "get it validated" as a personal experimental/experiential thing -- try your new discovery in play -- not as a appeal-to-authority validation. Unless you are giving your knowledge to the deity, perhaps by sharing it as a Hero Subcult. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Desperate WindChild Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 Thanks for your answers 17 hours ago, lordabdul said: To interact with a God in any constructive way (such as a normal conversation) would mean that the God is able to act in Time, which goes against the Great Compromise. Of course a few things, like Divination and Divine Intervention, are kind of loopholes. Yes they interact with a lot of limitations, bu they intercat with mundane world. In an other way, we can imagine that it is not the god who come into mundane world but the mortal who interact with otherwolrd (it was more what I thought) Albert never signed the Great Compromise 17 hours ago, lordabdul said: Lankhor Mhy cultists are supposed to be searching for the Truth. They're scientists and philosophers. If you could casually call up your God and ask him to double-check your homework, that would be cheating, wouldn't it? Worse, it could be seen as an insult, as you're supposed to be searching for Knowledge, not be told what it is! So even if Lankhor Mhy could/wanted to break the Compromise, I don't think he would do it for that. Yes of course. It was just an example of complex interaction (not the question /answer system of divination) Imagine a great singer who can move even a God but is desperate and refuses any heal of priests. She need (not want) to know something that she believe only her god can answer / explain / ... What can happen And it was also an eurmali riddle Who Is Albert , What is E-ntropy, M-oon, and C-haos x 2 (ok I am not a true eurmali ok ok ) 17 hours ago, lordabdul said: IMHO Lankhor Mhy doesn't care about it -- it's most probably a rule that the cult imposes on themselves. It's not even tied to any actual mechanics so nothing forces you to wear a beard besides social pressure. You could totally play a character (of any gender, for that matter) that refuses to wear a beard. They would probably get shunned a lot by the Lankhor Mhy temple priests, but that can be an interesting theme and story to explore. Haha you succeed in the second riddle, it is my next topic 12 hours ago, jajagappa said: Or more likely the deity will simply enslave the shaman. Or eat their soul, etc. Very very probably. 12 hours ago, soltakss said: Unless you are giving your knowledge to the deity, perhaps by sharing it as a Hero Subcult. if knowledge is the subject, that also what I mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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