Regarding RuneQuest compatibility.

[DiracSquid]

Hello all, I've a small question.

Rather then give some drawn out introduction, I'll cut to the thick of it. Would the RuneQuest books, specifically the two monster books, be compatible with the rules of the BRP manual? That is, could I insert those monsters into a custom game with little to no conversion trouble?

I apologize if this is a silly question, but I figured I'd ask before I go spending money on something useless.

[Thalaba]

Not a silly question at all. I convert in the other direction since I run RQ, and I've taken BRP and also COC and Elric creatures and used them directly, adding only hit locations. Going the other way should be even easier.

Thalaba

[Mechashef]

Mostly Yes.

The RQ3 Creatures book is available for purchase for BRP and hasn't been changed at all!

There are a few things to look at:

Move ratings are expressed differently between the two settings but is easy enough to fudge. I think the RQ3 system is clearer than BRP.

RQ3 has MP while BRP has PP. Different name for the same thing.

Skills are different and there are skills that are the same but have different names. Once again, the conversion is easy.

The magic systems that come with BRP are taken from other members of the family, not RQ. However, the RQ3 magic book is also available for BRP. I'm not sure of any changes, but I'd expect them to be minimal.

[NickMiddleton]

Rather then give some drawn out introduction, I'll cut to the thick of it. Would the RuneQuest books, specifically the two monster books, be compatible with the rules of the BRP manual?

I'm assuming you are referring to the Mongoose RuneQuest Monsters I and II books?

That is, could I insert those monsters into a custom game with little to no conversion trouble?

I've only skimmed through the Monsters SRD, but I'd say, tentatively "yes, with a little work" - depending on which BRP options you prefer there may be more or less conversion work. I can't see it ever being hugely onerous - but I also can't see it being entirely conversion free, either.

I apologise if this is a silly question, but I figured I'd ask before I go spending money on something useless.

Bear in mind that the SRD of the first book is freely available here or as part of the Deluxe SRD here - download a copy and form your own opinion as to how much work you'd need to do.

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

Edited June 16, 2009 by NickMiddleton
typos

[Mechashef]

I'm assuming you are referring to the Mongoose RuneQuest Monsters I and II books?

Oops!

I assumed he meant the Craetures book from RQ3 and the Gloranthan bestiary!

:-(

In that case, just ignore wht I wrote

[DirkD]

If you want an overview about skill-conversion from mrq to brp, you can also take a look at BRP Central - Downloads - MRQ2BRP Conversion Guide

[Thalaba]

Oops!

I assumed he meant the Craetures book from RQ3 and the Gloranthan bestiary!

:-(

In that case, just ignore wht I wrote

Me too!

[DiracSquid]

To Thalaba and Mechashef; I'm sorry - I suppose that's more my fault then yours. You see, I'm still very knew to the scene and I really don't know much about RuneQuest, past or present. The only thing I really did know was that they share some common ancestry so I figured it wouldn't be too hard to convert them - But with these things, I can never be too sure.

But thank you for alerting me to the free download - that is actually incredibly helpful. I'm not opposed to doing a bit of work for it, part of me loves tinkering with them like that anyway. And thank you, DirkD, for the conversion notes. That should also prove very helpful!

Now, correct me if I'm wrong - But regarding the Basic Magic and Basic Creature books that came out recently, aren't they reiterations from RQ3? And on that subject, are the creatures included in the Gloranthan Bestiary book straight-usable for BRP, or do they require that same slight tweaking of names and different skills? I just need to be sure, otherwise I end up thinking about it too much and driving myself crazy.

[Mechashef]

To Thalaba and Mechashef; I'm sorry - I suppose that's more my fault then yours.

Not your fault at all. I have been involved with RQ for about 27 years and tend to forget about MRQ, which is really rather stupid as I was involved in the initial playtesting of it and was invited into the cutdown playtest group but declined because I didn't like where it was going.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong - But regarding the Basic Magic and Basic Creature books that came out recently, aren't they reiterations from RQ3?

I believe so. I haven't seen them as I own RQ3, but apparently they are direct copies of RQ3.

And on that subject, are the creatures included in the Gloranthan Bestiary book straight-usable for BRP, or do they require that same slight tweaking of names and different skills? I just need to be sure, otherwise I end up thinking about it too much and driving myself crazy.

Take a look at my original post. That indicates what generally needs changing. It isn't hard. I actually find the difference in Movement values to be the most annoying, but that is only because I like it to feel right, and the BRP movement values don't. A more sane person wouldn't worry about it so much.

[DiracSquid]

Take a look at my original post. That indicates what generally needs changing. It isn't hard. I actually find the difference in Movement values to be the most annoying, but that is only because I like it to feel right, and the BRP movement values don't. A more sane person wouldn't worry about it so much.

Okay. I was pretty sure that's what you had implied - but I figured I'd better make certain. Thanks a bundle for all the help!

I purchased the Basic Magic/Creature a little while back - now all I have to do is get my hands on the Bestiary and I suppose I'll be set for the pre-mongoose days. I don't suppose there are any other RuneQuest monster books? I'm really quite the sucker for them, even if I never use them.

[Mechashef]

I don't suppose there are any other RuneQuest monster books? I'm really quite the sucker for them, even if I never use them.

Not as such that I am aware of.

However, various supplements have new creatures, and some have quite a reasonable number. The Land of Ninja and Vikings supplements both contain many new creatures. I can recommend both of those products.

Troll Pack, or one of the other troll based supplements also had quite a few.

Various web sites have collections of monsters. The wiki associated with this site has some good ones.

the RuneQuest 3 Yahoo group also has some (mainly by me - I like to create creatures but am not that great at it, but there are others).

[NickMiddleton]

I purchased the Basic Magic/Creature a little while back - now all I have to do is get my hands on the Bestiary and I suppose I'll be set for the pre-mongoose days. I don't suppose there are any other RuneQuest monster books? I'm really quite the sucker for them, even if I never use them.

One of the first supplements I ever bought for RuneQuest was a collection of creatures calledthe Gateway Bestiary - being a thirty year old book it's quite rare now and on the rare occasion it DOES show up on eBay can be expensive. It's the only other full bestiary for RQI/-/III I recall. The AH Monster Colliseum boxed set had some RQIII monster / encounter stats in it, and the GW Monsters Book was basically the original RQIII Creatures book combined with those encounter and creature stats, but that's it.

Cheers,

Nick

[Mechashef]

One of the first supplements I ever bought for RuneQuest was a collection of creatures calledthe Gateway Bestiary

I've never come across that one. Any cool creatures in it?

The AH Monster Colliseum boxed set had some RQIII monster / encounter stats in it

I did find those stats quite useful.

I actually liked Griffin island and (hang my head in shame) Eldarad. I never actually ran or played either, but used bits. In particular the powerfulish sorcerers from both proved useful to give people an idea of what sorcerers were capable of.

[Thalaba]

I have the Gloranthan Bestiary and, to be honest, I never use it. I find most of the creatures in it to be a little too weird for my taste - though there are one or two exceptions like the Rubble Runner. The best RQ3 Gloranthan monsters were actually released in the Glorantha Book - which was book 5 of the Deluxe Boxed Set. It had Scorpionmen, Walktapus, Jack-o-bear, Dragon snails (I think), and Dragonnewts. I think, though, that you'll have a lot of trouble finding this book, so if there's a Mongoose equivalent with these creatures I'd go for it. These creatures are NOT in the Gloranthan Bestiary - at least not the version I have.

Also, look into the 2nd Edition reprints from Moon Design. I have Borderlands & Beyond and it's very good - it also has interesting creatures in it, including the Whirlvish, which I recently inflicted on my players with great success. I suspect the Griffin Mountain book will also have some creatures in it.

As for Griffin Island, I liked it, too. Most people who seem not to like it were those who had Griffin Mountain first and are comparing the two. I have yet to see a truly objective comparison, and I'm sure both supplements rate almost equally high when compared to the overall corpus of rpg supplements.

The 3rd edition Dorastor book has some creatures, too - Slime deer, poisonthorn elves, and spiders are some from my memory. It also has a lot of really stange and powerful creatures that the PC's are mainly supposed to run away from, as I recall.

Thalaba

[jean]

If you want an overview about skill-conversion from mrq to brp, you can also take a look at BRP Central - Downloads - MRQ2BRP Conversion Guide

There is no conversion for speed, so here are my ideas

a creature move in MRQ should be multiplied by 2 to get its BRP MOV

a creature move in MRQ should be multiplied by 8 and divided by 10 to get its move by SR

(Example a creature has a move of 4 in MRQ, its BRP MOV is 8 and it moves 3.2 m/SR rounded to 3m/SR)

All creatures in MRQ have the 7 characteristics, and sometimes it makes no sense, so a finer conversion might be useful

For example a Jolanti (in creature book 2) has CON but since it is made of stone it immune to poisons and diseases and should not have a CON rating (it is my feeling)

Cheers

Jean

[NickMiddleton]

As for Griffin Island, I liked it, too. Most people who seem not to like it were those who had Griffin Mountain first and are comparing the two. I have yet to see a truly objective comparison, and I'm sure both supplements rate almost equally high when compared to the overall corpus of rpg supplements.

Slightly off topic - I think in a lot of ways, as a stand alone supplement Griffin Island works better, but it suffers from that lack of a sense of a wider political and cultural context that Griffin Mountain had. Plus there were some details skipped from GI that were in GM (Gonn Orta's castle, some of the trade maps etc), which was a shame.

If I though Chaosioum could get away with it, I'd love to see GI back as a generic BRP fantasy supplement - but I think it's too clearly a derivative of GM for that to be possible.

Nick

[Thalaba]

Plus there were some details skipped from GI that were in GM (Gonn Orta's castle, some of the trade maps etc), which was a shame.

In your opinion - was there enough missing to make it worthwhile hunting down GM if one already has GI? Or are they 95% similar? I don't play in Glorantha, so the context issue was never important for me.

Thalaba

[NickMiddleton]

In your opinion - was there enough missing to make it worthwhile hunting down GM if one already has GI? Or are they 95% similar? I don't play in Glorantha, so the context issue was never important for me.

It's still possible (at least here in the UK) to pick up the Moon Design reprint of Griffin Mountain, which includes not just all those bits missed from GI but also a few extra bits and pieces from magazine articles etc. I'm not a huge Gloranthaphile either - but GM is something special and whilst not an essential purchase is definitely worth picking up at a reasonable price if you can afford it. I wouldn't in your shoes pay collector's prices, but I've always been very glad to have both GI and GM in my collection.

Cheers,

Nick

[DirkD]

There is no conversion for speed, so here are my ideas

a creature move in MRQ should be multiplied by 2 to get its BRP MOV

a creature move in MRQ should be multiplied by 8 and divided by 10 to get its move by SR

(Example a creature has a move of 4 in MRQ, its BRP MOV is 8 and it moves 3.2 m/SR rounded to 3m/SR)

All creatures in MRQ have the 7 characteristics, and sometimes it makes no sense, so a finer conversion might be useful

For example a Jolanti (in creature book 2) has CON but since it is made of stone it immune to poisons and diseases and should not have a CON rating (it is my feeling)

Cheers

Jean

You are right, the Movement should be in the document. I made the skill-list when I converted some characters, so movement wasn't a big issue.

The remark about characteristics is worth mentioning, but it is kind of a rare exception. There aren't a lot of stone-creatures out there...

[RMS]

Slightly off topic - I think in a lot of ways, as a stand alone supplement Griffin Island works better, but it suffers from that lack of a sense of a wider political and cultural context that Griffin Mountain had. Plus there were some details skipped from GI that were in GM (Gonn Orta's castle, some of the trade maps etc), which was a shame.

The biggest difference to me was always the change from the opponents being the interesting, deep (not obviously *evil*) Lunars to the stereotypical orcs. It just made GI seem so shallow in comparison. However, it's a really simple change to fix that. I ran GI a couple of times and changed the orcs to an interesting human culture to make them more 3 dimensional and it ran great. GI also has an extra city developed for it, but does miss some of the really interesting GM encounters.

While GM is one of my very favorite scenarios ever, I don't really know if I could recommend spending the $ for it, if you have GI, especially if you're skipping all the Glorantha goodness containted therein.

[Harshax]

Griffin Island was the greatest RQ campaign setting, bar none. My GM simply added enough glorantha culture information to give it more depth.

[Agentorange]

Returning to the subject of RQ/BRP monster conversions, someone did say in one thread on that the hit point distribution for hit locations is different in RQ to BRP. That is in RQ legs were .16 of total HP, whereas in BRP they were .20 and so on. I'm sure this was mentioned somewhere. If so you might have to do a little bit of conversion work. Whether they adjusted this in the BRP reissues of the creatures book I have no idea.

[soltakss]

Since the Evil Internet swallowed my last attempt to reply to this thread, I'll try again.

All of the RQ/BRP Bestiaries/Creatures Books are mutually compatible, to a large extent. In fact, of all the rules I would say that the Bestiaries are the most compatible and easiest to use on the fly.

There are some differences that might need on the go conversions. The main differences are Movement, Strike Ranks and Hit Locations.

Movement has been covered above and is the least problematic part unless the GM is very picky about how things move.

Strike Ranks are probably the most difficult to convert. RQ2/3 have slightly different Strike Ranks but the rules mechanics are similat. RQM uses a totally different version of Strike Ranks. BRP has optional rules for Strike Ranks that are similar to RQ3 and, I believe, DEX Ranks that are similar to RQM. I would use the RQ2/3 Strike Ranks in an RQ3/2/BRP-SR game without conversion, they are slightly different but not that different that it makes a huge difference in the game. To convert RQM Strike Ranks you either need a table that gives the equivalent BRP Strike Ranks or need to convert using the average/specific characteristics. Converting from RQM SRs to BRP DEX Ranks would probably require a recalculation.

Hit Locations are only a problem if you use them. Hit Points are calculated differently and might need recalculating. If you don't use Hit Locations then use the General Hit Points in RQ2/3 for BRP and calculate them for RQM stats. If you do use Hit Locations then there are slight differences in the numbers allocated to each area and the hit points in each area. I wouldn't bother recalculating the Hit Points in each area as a few points here and there makes no difference to how NPC creatures react. I'd use the Hit Location D20 table as described in the particular creatures book. RQ2/3 have slightly different D20 Locations, RQM does away with RQ3's Missile D20 Locations but changes the Melee D20 Locations from the RQ2 values. BRP uses a similar set to RQ3. So, id I used something from the Gateway Bestiary in BRP then I would roll on the Gateway Bestiary table for convenience. Of course, if you wanted to be ruthlessly BRP then you could have a set of Hit Locations worked out for each creature type and always roll on those. So, Left Leg is Left Leg regardless of the roll made.

Personally, I'd go for whichever method is quickest and easiest. I use RQM stats in my RQ3 game on the fly. In fact, our PCs were rolled up using a playtest version of RQM before we went back to RQ3 because the playtest rules were unusable, some players reconverted the hit points/locations using the RQ3 method but others kept the RQM locations, so if I roll a 7 it hits one person's leg and another person's abdomen. Does it matter? Not at all, I couldn't care less.