Inherited Traits/Skills

[SirUkpyr]

PC knight is about to see his 21yr old son knighted.

Does the new knight inherit any of Dad's famous traits? any of Dad's skills.

I know he gets 10% of Dad's glory.

Thanks.

[Morien]

See "Sons as Player Characters", p. 68-69.

Short answer:

Skills: no inheritance. (Save for the Family Characteristic.)

Traits & Passions: Identical to the Father's, or no inheritance.

 

[Username]

I turn the passions into a number of D6s plus modifier to come in close but maybe a little under the father's. Example, 15 is 3d6+4, but 12 is 3d6+1. 16 is 4d6+1.

For traits, we give some points pre-squiring and let them shape the children's traits towards the old characters notable traits. Usually just a few points. With religious traits, they're more than similar enough.

I think Paladin has a mechanic for inheriting some skills. Someone else would know better. I haven't looked at my version in a few months.

[SirUkpyr]

6 hours ago, Morien said:

See "Sons as Player Characters", p. 68-69.

Short answer:

Skills: no inheritance. (Save for the Family Characteristic.)

Traits & Passions: Identical to the Father's, or no inheritance.

 

Morien

pg 68-69 of which book??

I checked my hardcopy Pendragon 5.0, but pgs 68-69 are all about Traits and Passions.

I checked my PDF Pendragon 5.1, same results.

I even checked my Knights and Ladies (nope) and Entourage (only has 50 pgs).

Thanks for the assist.

[Hzark10]

Morien is referring to Pendragon 5.2 for the pages of 68-69.  In KAP 5.1, that section is on page 53.

[Morien]

2 hours ago, SirUkpyr said:

pg 68-69 of which book??

Sorry, I thought it was obvious...

1 hour ago, Hzark10 said:

Morien is referring to Pendragon 5.2 for the pages of 68-69.  In KAP 5.1, that section is on page 53.

Yep. The text in KAP 5.1 seems identical to KAP 5.2 at a first glance.

2 hours ago, Username said:

I think Paladin has a mechanic for inheriting some skills.

Only if the father gets to go to Heaven (whether he is canonized as a saint or not). Famous Valorous gives a bonus to the son's Valorous, but no 'cloning' of Traits wholesale.

Speaking of which, personally I dislike the 'cloning' of characters, especially the whole hog cloning that KAP 5.x opens the door to as a possibility, with the Statistics being copied over as well. It is one thing to play the family. It is quite another to reboot the next, younger clone when the old character dies as if this were Paranoia. The Statistics copying makes it quite possible to abuse the heck out of this system, too, to ensure that your son starts with +10 statistic points above the standard new character.

Now, I don't mind there being a bonus, like in Paladin, to some Traits and such. That is fine, and we have a similar system in place, in our campaign. But it is more fun when the son is not a carbon copy of the father, IMHO.

[Username]

9 hours ago, Morien said:

Now, I don't mind there being a bonus, like in Paladin, to some Traits and such. That is fine, and we have a similar system in place, in our campaign. But it is more fun when the son is not a carbon copy of the father, IMHO.

Totally agree. We roll up the traits with 3d6 which is, I think, the best way to do it. You always get really interesting characters that way. I like passing on Passions (Not all of them of course. Love for example doesn't get passed on), but with a random flair. I usually let the players choose too if a passion is passed on. Personally, I'd be hesitant to even give a bonus or anything to skills since those can get quite out of hand fast.

[SirUkpyr]

Morien - you rock! Thanks for the info.
Hzark10 - you also rock - and thanks muchly for telling me where to look - and in what page.

I think I will handle this in this manner. Limit the number of traits/passions (T/P) which can be "inherited". The "standard" will be *up to half* of the Father's famous T/Ps, with a dice roll determining how many that is. If the player wants to go as high as 2/3 of the famous T/Ps being inherited, then he has to tell me a good story for *why*.

I'm a HUGE lover of story, so long as it does not unbalance the gave vs the other characters.

Might also allow them some (5-10) extra skill points to use on those skills which Father was known for using a lot, but the player will not know how much will be available until after character creation is finished.

[Morien]

13 minutes ago, SirUkpyr said:

Might also allow them some (5-10) extra skill points to use on those skills which Father was known for using a lot, but the player will not know how much will be available until after character creation is finished.

Why not just leave that up to the player? If they wish to 'keep up the family tradition', then they should use their normal skill points appropriately. What you are doing here is giving them 1-2 extra yearly trainings of skills on some vague guideline of 'known for using a lot', which tends to be the fighting skills (and I seriously hope that the usual limit of 15 at chargen applies here, since getting Sword or Lance at 20 at 21 will seriously benefit the 2nd gen characters).

[Atgxtg]

On 5/7/2020 at 5:30 PM, Morien said:

Traits & Passions: Identical to the Father's, or no inheritance.

 

Optionally, in K&L Traits are inherited at 1d6 per 4 points of the father's value. I prefer this as it allows for some variation between father and son. I'd also not let Amor passions port over.

[Hzark10]

Yes, the clone wars, this is not.

[Giant Ice Spider]

Please bear in mind I still haven't got to run this yet, but here's how I as a layman would do it.

You inherit Famous Traits/Passions in the form of a modifier to it equalling (Trait or Passion) - 15. If your character chooses to take after their father, it's applied as a bonus; if they rebel and try to be a rebellious brat (or rise above their father's venality, as appropriate), it's a penalty. This gives the new knight a tad more flexibility than just to-clone-or-not-to-clone (and if the father is still alive, it sets up a dynamic between them).

[Cornelius]

I use the following houserule:

Roll for traits and passions as normal, with the normal modifiers. 

After rolling a player may choose one trait and one passion from the father to give to their new character. This is usually one of 16 or higher. As a sort of the effect the father had on the son. (as a sort of high honest character would say: always be turthful to your word, son)

I also usually look at how the father died. For instance I gave one of my PK the option to take a high Hate(Saxons) when his father was brutally slain by a berserker.

 

[dvdmacateer]

On 5/9/2020 at 4:39 AM, Atgxtg said:

Optionally, in K&L Traits are inherited at 1d6 per 4 points of the father's value. I prefer this as it allows for some variation between father and son. I'd also not let Amor passions port over.

Sorry to resurrect this but what page is this in K&L?

[Morien]

7 hours ago, dvdmacateer said:

Sorry to resurrect this but what page is this in K&L?

I think Atgxtg may have gotten Traits mixed with Passions...

"E. Passions for Sons of Player Knights", p. 49.

However, given that K&L doesn't offer any word on how to deal with the Sons' Traits, and KAP 5.2 treats Sons' Traits and Passions in the same way (inherit Father's values), I can very well see the argument that this Passion rule could apply also to Traits if rolled randomly. I'd still cap them at 19 or 20.

[Voord 99]

It wouldn’t be too hard to base rules for inheriting some of a father’s skills off the rules for getting extra skills from Father’s Class.  Instead of assuming that any father who has X position gets these skills, look at what the father was exceptionally good at, and go from there.   I do something like this, but instead of the father, it’s the knight to whom the character was squired, on the assumption that if you serve an expert courtier, you pick up more in that area than if you served a different knight. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Voord 99

[dvdmacateer]

16 hours ago, Morien said:

I think Atgxtg may have gotten Traits mixed with Passions...

"E. Passions for Sons of Player Knights", p. 49.

However, given that K&L doesn't offer any word on how to deal with the Sons' Traits, and KAP 5.2 treats Sons' Traits and Passions in the same way (inherit Father's values), I can very well see the argument that this Passion rule could apply also to Traits if rolled randomly. I'd still cap them at 19 or 20.

Thanks. I was wondering if I had an old edition or something.

[Atgxtg]

(Breaking exile only long enough to clear the waters I muddied...)

20 hours ago, Morien said:

I think Atgxtg may have gotten Traits mixed with Passions...

Indeed I did.