Rethinking Lores

[Scorus]

Lores are the first step that I'm taking in a house rule skill rethink, I'd appreciate any feedback on the following system. Lores seem too narrow at the lowest levels, as the basics of one lore seem to be highly dependent upon others, and too broad at the highest levels as the more you plumb a subject the more narrow you have to get. One of my players mentioned that there were a LOT of lores in a recent session and it got me thinking about skill trees. So I have combined the Customs skill (as it and Homeland Lore seem to overlap) and all the Lores except Cult Lore (which I just couldn't get to fit) into four broad skills which narrow as the skill level proceeds (currently 5 categories, maybe should just be 4?). So the four resulting skills that a player would train are the Lores listed below, the rest is an explanation of what aspects of those lores they specialize in as they progress in the Lore skill.

 

Skill Levels:

1-25% - General lore giving a basic understanding of how it all works with knowledge of specifics here and there or in occupational areas (i.e. a farmer, herder, and hunter will learn different things about minerals, animals, and plants in Genert Lore).

26-50% - Knowledge of a category (original lore skill), geared toward occupational or cult areas as appropriate.

51-75% - Specific factual and mythic knowledge within an area of the original lore category, with a possibility of knowledge in related areas.

76-89% - Specific factual, theoretical, and mythic knowledge of a particular subject within the area.

90+% - Full expertise within a narrow aspect of the subject, acknowledged as one of the (or The) expert in that narrow field.

 

Lores:

Glorantha Lore - Customs/Homeland/River

Genert Lore - Animal/Mineral/Plant

Otherworld Lore - Celestial/Underworld/Spirit

Non-Human Lore (new name ideas welcome!) - Draconic/Elder Race

 

Tree Examples (Items separated by slashes indicate examples of options at a given level. Please don't get hung up on specific examples, they are drafty!):

Lore: Genert Lore

Category: Animals

Area: Felines/Snakes/Freshwater Fish/Birds/Insects/Forest Animals/Underground dwellers/Riding Animals/Farm Animals

Subject: Alynx/Python/Vrok/Beetle/Cow

Aspect: Diet/Mating Habits/Health Care/Mythic Lore

 

Lore: Genert Lore

Category: Minerals

Area: Metals/Home Use/Medicinal

Subject: Bronze/Iron/Clay/Salt

Aspect: Types/Density/Alloys/Location

 

Lore: Non-human Lore

Category: Elder Races

Area: Uz/Aldryami/Mostali/Beastmen

Subject: Dryads/Centaurs/Durulz/Great Trolls/Gold Dwarves

Aspect: Customs/Mythic Lore/Diet/Specific entities

 

Lore: Non-Human Lore

Category: Draconic

Area: Mythic Lore/Dragons/Dream Dragons/Dragonewts/Water Wyrms/Human relations

Subject: Orlanth and Dragons/Celestial Dragons/Crested Dragonewts/Inhuman Kings/Periods/Regions/EWF

Aspect: Specific entities or myths/Dragons and Argrath/High Wyrm/EWF in Dara Happa/Crested Dragonewt diet

 

Lore: Otherworld Lore

Category: Celestial

Area: Mythic Lore/Stars/Comets/Sun/The Sky in the 2^nd Age/The Sky from the Far North

Subject: Individual celestial entities/Orlanth and the Sky/Vingkotling sky beliefs/Nochet interpretations

Aspect: Rigsdal vs. Polaris worship/Elmal in the Vingkotling era/The Only Old One and the Sky

 

Lore: Otherworld Lore

Category: Spirit

Area: Animal/Plant/Disease Spirits/Genius Loci/Wyters/Elementals/Spirit World Regions/Spirit Cults

Subject: Major Battle Sites/Dehori/Tribal Wyters/Ghosts/Oakfed/Vortices

Aspect: Specific entities/legends/battles/sites

 

Lore: Glorantha Lore

Category: Sartar/Esrolia/Prax/Rivers/2^nd Age

Area: Pavic Customs/Colymar Tribe/Nochet/Bison Riders/EWF/God Learners/Boranini River

Subject: Colymar Wilds/Nochet Trade/Bison Rider religions/EWF Artifacts/Boranini flora

Aspect: Pig Hollow/Nochet’s docks/Specific entities or artifacts or sites

Edited October 10, 2020 by Scorus

[Richard S.]

This reminds me of how I've heard Ringworld worked, with a broad skill that you can train up to a certain percentage and then have to branch out into specializations of. This has a lot more branches though. It looks interesting, and if your players are cool with it I think it'd be a neat experiment to use, but I also can't help but think that it seems a dreadful lot to remember.

[Runeblogger]

It sounds promising. Could you please provide an example of play to better visualize it?

[Psullie]

It a bit like HeroQuest, a general skill with breakout specialisations? 

I agree that the current Lore structure is poorly considered, but then it is not a focus of the game. Yet, the distinction between Magic (Sorcery) and Lore were blurred at the best of times in ancient cultures, so why not Glorantha. Basic stuff should be common knowledge, expertise should be rare - with a lot of miss-information and conjecture in between. 

First off, I think there should be more Lore bonuses in Char Gen, for example why don't framers get Animal, Plant and Celestial lore - three areas that dominated ancient agriculture. Same goes for Elder Race Lore, Trolls are common in Dragon pass, so most people would have some understanding of their culture. At least in the 15-30% range

Rather than fill the character sheet with skills, a basic Know stuff skill (ala CoC) works here which could then be augmented by specialisations or applied as a bonus. The GM should then apply modifiers based on the ubiquity of the subject. 

[Scorus]

3 hours ago, Runeblogger said:

It sounds promising. Could you please provide an example of play to better visualize it?

Sure, here are three off the top of my head:

Young farmer Harmast starts with Genert Lore 20%. He has a basic knowledge of the area's plants, animals (farm and wild), and minerals. He would get a bonus to rolls concerning any plants, animals, and minerals that he regularly interacts with.

At 30%, he is specializing in plants, let's say. So his base rolls would be limited to 25% in questions of animals and minerals but 30% in plants. Again, with bonuses across the board to plants, animals, and minerals that they regularly interact with.

At 60%, he has focused on grains. So he could augment his Farming skill roll for his grain harvest during Sacred Time with this skill. But if he is trying to figure out what is affecting his cabbage then he is capped at 50%.

At 85%, he KNOWS barley. His wheat and corn crops are excellent, but when somebody in the tribe is having trouble with their barley the answer is always to go see Harmast. If barley is a major aspect of the clan’s harvest and he is generous with is knowledge, then his skill can help the clan’s annual harvest roll.

At 95%, he is one of the leading lights in the world on barley pests. A Lhankor Mhy initiate is dispatched to stay with him and write down everything he says on the subject. Divinations to Barntar on the subject come back: “How would I know? Ask Harmast Barley-Shield!” Any heroquest involving Esra the Barley Mother starts with a consultation with him, if he is not included.

 -----

Assistant Shaman Inervan has a 20% in Otherworld Lore. She is familiar with the basics of the Sky Dome, the Spirit World, and the Underworld. She gets a bonus to rolls involving the aspects of each that she most frequently interacts with in the service of her shaman.

At 30%, she specializes in the Underworld. Base rolls to know about that world’s deities, demons, and mythic geography. Rolls concerning other worlds are capped at 25%.

At 60%, she specializes in paths through the realm of the dead. She grows in her understanding and regularly eases the fears of those nearing death, in addition to being consulted by those dealing with ghosts, approaching heroquests involving those paths, or seeking to resurrect travelers upon it. Questions about specific demons or other regions are capped at 50%.

At 85%, she has gained significant expertise on the warrior’s path to the Underworld. She can give advice to warriors as to trials they may face along this path. She has identified and communicated with guardians of this path. She can strengthen an army’s courage with tales of the afterlife glories that those who don’t make it will find and can efficiently find those currently on the path.

At 95%, she has trod the path that a Babeester Gor takes to the Underworld multiple times. She is the go-to heroquester when a BG warrior needs to be pulled from the Underworld. She can recommend prayers to previously unknown BG servants in the Cavern of Silence who can get you the best seats. She can sell her services as an advocate in front of BG and Daka Fal.

 -----

Cartacar leaves for his apprenticeship at the Irippi Ontor Temple with a 20% skill in Glorantha Lore. He knows the basic physical and political geography of Glorantha and a better knowledge of the customs and history of his native Carmania.

At 30%, he has focused on Glorantha’s political history. Questions of physical geography or customs are capped at 25%, though he would get a bonus in areas connected to the political history (e.g. a mountain range that provides a historical border or a custom that started a war) or that directly involve Lunar territories.

At 60%, he has become fascinated with the Second Council. He has a good basis of general political history, especially that involve Carmania and the Lunar Empire, but those are capped at 50%. His knowledge of the Second Council has begun to be noticed by other scholars in that field.

At 80%, he has zeroed in on the Dara Happan involvement in the Second Council. He has an intimate understanding of the major and minor texts on the subject and can discuss aspects of them at length. While the work is primarily academic in nature, it has brought him the patronage of prominent Dara Happan families whose ancestors were involved and led to discoveries of relevant sites.

At 95%, he has worked with shamans to contact the spirits of Dara Happans who were involved in the decision to join the Council and led exploration of important sites. He has traced the involvement of previously unsuspected influences on the decision that has resulted in a significant rise of importance in one of his patrons, who gifted him with a small estate. He has provided information on the Second Council and the birth of Gbaji which could be instrumental to future heroquests delving into those eras.

[French Desperate WindChild]

I agree that knowledge seems a litle bit frustrating.

I like your segmentation / hierarchy

But how do you manage someone knows 2 categories of a lore (plant + animal) ? are there two different skills ? same for area, subject, aspect

 

I have no answer for a good AND simple modelisation of knowledge. It's a big challenge, thanks for help !

Edited October 10, 2020 by French Desperate WindChild

[Scorus]

On 10/10/2020 at 1:24 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

But how do you manage someone knows 2 categories of a lore (plant + animal) ? are there two different skills ? same for area, subject, aspect

Yes, I think so. So someone with 35% Genert Lore with the plant category who wanted to learn more about animals would train from 25% in the animal category. Under other skills have Genert (Plant) 35 and Genert (Animal) 30. I don’t know lores are popular enough to get out of control.