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Storm Bull communities in the Wastes


DreadDomain

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I was wondering lately about the potentially presence of a Storm Bull community centered around the Sandstorm Hills. Given the significance of the area, including the hills themselves, Vrak Kargh Vozh and the Raging Storm, and the proximity to spots where the Storm Khans would want to raid or at least aggressively monitor, like the Chaos Box, the Tunneled Hills or the Krjalki Bog, I could see Storm Bull cultists had being drawn to the area to settle there in a semi-permanent way to rage their unending battle against Chaos. Given the hostility of the area, surely this community would be composed of a mix of Storm Bull, Chalana Arroy and Eiritha followers with the odd Waha cultist and oasis people. I can't see a large following of any other cults (well except from the Lords of Terror themselves) wanting to live there.

If such a community would exist and would have settled there a long time ago, I assume they would be descendants of the animal tribes, perhaps mainly from the Bison tribe? Would they still be part of the tribes culture or, as Storm Bull does, would they have become their own thing?

What would the Sandstorm Hills look like? Like Sahara desert hills akin to the Algerian Hoggar mountains? Like the Australian outback like the Rainbow Valley in the Northern Territory? Like the Mesas in the American West? 

A side observation that struck as odd, only realized this for the first time in decades, the Storm Bull cult, or associate cults, does not provide any Strength spells... such a spell would seem so appropriate for the Bull!  

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8 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

I was wondering lately about the potentially presence of a Storm Bull community centered around the Sandstorm Hills. Given the significance of the area, including the hills themselves, Vrak Kargh Vozh and the Raging Storm, and the proximity to spots where the Storm Khans would want to raid or at least aggressively monitor, like the Chaos Box, the Tunneled Hills or the Krjalki Bog, I could see Storm Bull cultists had being drawn to the area to settle there in a semi-permanent way to rage their unending battle against Chaos. Given the hostility of the area, surely this community would be composed of a mix of Storm Bull, Chalana Arroy and Eiritha followers with the odd Waha cultist and oasis people. I can't see a large following of any other cults (well except from the Lords of Terror themselves) wanting to live there.

8 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

If such a community would exist and would have settled there a long time ago, I assume they would be descendants of the animal tribes, perhaps mainly from the Bison tribe? Would they still be part of the tribes culture or, as Storm Bull does, would they have become their own thing?

Settlements are rare in the Wastes, except for oases (permanent and ephemeral). Nomads as the name implies don't settle as it's effectively a cultural taboo, even Storm Bulls. Although being an inter-tribal cult, means they are supported by most clans they encounter. 

On the Krjalk bog-side however there are two of the rich palace grazings', the Twixt Grassland (south) and Waha's Blessing (north). The palace grazings'  always have a high Storm Bull content due to their proximity to the bog, and they subsist off grateful clans grazing there. The Place Grasslands are a full on location for all chaos fighters (Broos For Sure), as they butt right up against the bog. (see the guide for the others).

Here are the colour bands going outwards:

1. Chaos Place.

2. Broos For Sure. These places border a Chaos place. Warriors are on Constant Guard. The elderly, women, and children are in the centre of the herd, the animals about them, and the men on the outside sleeping only in the saddle. Attack is inevitable. Examples include any of the Palace Grasslands.

3. At Least One Awake. Some form of attack by Chaos Herds is inevitable, Warriors are on Normal Guard. The herds are not forced into a single body surrounding the elderly, women, and children.

4. Only Some Guards Needed.

Greystone Well (oasis), is occasionally surrounded by the Family Bison Grassland (north east only offers grazing every 1 in 2 years), and has a deep, narrow opening means that water has to be continually lifted by shadoof, so is not ever damaged by large herds.

Hoofcrack (oasis) Mallia’s blood fell here in the Great Darkness, and her spirits still plague the herds. Only the Morokanth, their herd-men, and other hoofless beasts are able to safely water here. The Oasis People here are always suspected of collusion with Chaos by the other Praxian tribes. So there is a concentration of Morokanth Storm Bulls here, keeping an eye on everything. Both oases have a oasis folk population of around 500 each (each a clan).

Any of these four areas make ideal roaming places for Storm Bull bands.

On the Dead Bottom side, the Dead Bottom grazing only offers grazing every 1 in 2 years. It's popular with the High Lama clans (due to the water). The chaos problem here is Chaos Box, and as we know that only pops out a monster every Storm Bull High holy day, so there's always a crowd waiting. They normally travel through the gorge cut by the Serpent that drains the bog. It's rare for a chaos outbreak to get beyond the Chaos Place or Broos For Sure, unless there's a TPK, overwhelming numbers or they fly off...

As a note, Chalana Arroy is rare in the Wastes, Ernalda amongst the Oasis folk and Eiritha amongst the Nomads is the nearest for healers. Nearest group is at Horn Gate.

8 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

A side observation that struck as odd, only realized this for the first time in decades, the Storm Bull cult, or associate cults, does not provide any Strength spells... such a spell would seem so appropriate for the Bull!  

Strength is available to Khans who have the Bulls Heart spirit (see Cults of Prax until the Gods book appears). Likewise they have access to many spirit cults and Shaman, so strength isn't a rare spirit magic for them. It's just not cult specific that's all. A storm bull Shaman could provide it easily.

 

The Storm Bull groups are pretty well defined:

Quote

 

Throughout Prax there are usually between five and eight High Khans of the cult wandering across the plains. Those known to have continued existence were the High Khan of the Storm-Impalas (which attracted those worshipers from the pigmy tribe of the plains), the High Khan of the Pavis Temple, the High Khan of the Bullocks, the High Priest of Karkarjan’s Sword, and the High Khan of the Paps. Other High Khans are mentioned without being named.

Each High Khan is the Bull’s Head and serves as a center of information and judgments for the followers. He is assisted by a varying number of priests who have titles such as Heart of the Bull, Horns of the Bull, Liver of the Bull, and so on. These are explained later. Other priests also report to the High Khans, even if they operate in a band on their own.

 

There's about 10K Storm Bull initiates in Prax and the Wastes, of which about 100 are Khans. 5-8 High Khans each with about 12 Khans, each with a band of about 100 initiates. Some of these will form part of a tribal group, and some at the Paps, the block, etc.

 

I hope this helps, but as always, just make up stuff you want to do.

52603487_Screenshot2020-12-05at11_19_22.thumb.png.92c80008ba658361ffef2088dd8fb1ba.png

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13 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Settlements are rare in the Wastes, except for oases (permanent and ephemeral). Nomads as the name implies don't settle as it's effectively a cultural taboo, even Storm Bulls. Although being an inter-tribal cult, means they are supported by most clans they encounter.

When I mentionned "semi permanent settlement" I was more alluding to a Storm Khan adopting the area as his hunting ground, using the hills, oases and grassland as his launchpad to raid Chaos area.  I guess the idea emerged from reading various sources which led to a few thoughs that fed on one another. Based on Cults of Prax, Storm Bulls act with total disregard for tribal taboos. This led to the thought that they are probably less concerned about the taboos of the animal tribes and more concerned about destroying chaos. They seem to primarily focus on the cult leadership, reporting to their priests and khans above all, which over time I assumed developped into some tribes structured more or less around the cult structure. The tribe being the cult, the cult being the tribe. Such a tribe, would need to more than Storm Bull cultists to function beyond being just a band. I might be over reaching here.  

13 minutes ago, David Scott said:

On the Krjalk bog-side however there are two of the rich palace grazings', the Twixt Grassland (south) and Waha's Blessing (north). The palace grazings'  always have a high Storm Bull content due to their proximity to the bog, and they subsist off grateful clans grazing there. The Place Grasslands are a full on location for all chaos fighters (Broos For Sure), as they butt right up against the bog. (see the guide for the others).

Here are the colour bands going outwards:

1. Chaos Place.

2. Broos For Sure. These places border a Chaos place. Warriors are on Constant Guard. The elderly, women, and children are in the centre of the herd, the animals about them, and the men on the outside sleeping only in the saddle. Attack is inevitable. Examples include any of the Palace Grasslands.

3. At Least One Awake. Some form of attack by Chaos Herds is inevitable, Warriors are on Normal Guard. The herds are not forced into a single body surrounding the elderly, women, and children.

4. Only Some Guards Needed.

Greystone Well (oasis), is occasionally surrounded by the Family Bison Grassland (north east only offers grazing every 1 in 2 years), and has a deep, narrow opening means that water has to be continually lifted by shadoof, so is not ever damaged by large herds.

Hoofcrack (oasis) Mallia’s blood fell here in the Great Darkness, and her spirits still plague the herds. Only the Morokanth, their herd-men, and other hoofless beasts are able to safely water here. The Oasis People here are always suspected of collusion with Chaos by the other Praxian tribes. So there is a concentration of Morokanth Storm Bulls here, keeping an eye on everything. Both oases have a oasis folk population of around 500 each (each a clan).

Any of these four areas make ideal roaming places for Storm Bull bands.

On the Dead Bottom side, the Dead Bottom grazing only offers grazing every 1 in 2 years. It's popular with the High Lama clans (due to the water). The chaos problem here is Chaos Box, and as we know that only pops out a monster every Storm Bull High holy day, so there's always a crowd waiting. They normally travel through the gorge cut by the Serpent that drains the bog. It's rare for a chaos outbreak to get beyond the Chaos Place or Broos For Sure, unless there's a TPK, overwhelming numbers or they fly off...

This is useful and seems to support my idea. The Sandstorm Hills are well positionned to be at the center of a vast hunting ground for Storm Bull cultists. Surrounded by the palace grasslands, close to oases and serpent rivers, within striking distance of foul stuff to kill and, above all, close to their god, close to the Raging Storm. I could easily see a Storm Bull "tribe" (for lack of a better word) make the whole area their sacred hunting ground. I mean, why wouldn't they? Sure no one else would, but they would.

13 minutes ago, David Scott said:

As a note, Chalana Arroy is rare in the Wastes, Ernalda amongst the Oasis folk and Eiritha amongst the Nomads is the nearest for healers. Nearest group is at Horn Gate.

Surely Storm Bull cultists would want to bring CA healers with them when they hunt Chaos. Good point though, they would certainly not be the most numerous of the lot.

13 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Strength is available to Khans who have the Bulls Heart spirit (see Cults of Prax until the Gods book appears). Likewise they have access to many spirit cults and Shaman, so strength isn't a rare spirit magic for them. It's just not cult specific that's all. A storm bull Shaman could provide it easily.

I must admit that part confused me in Cults of Prax and I don't quite understand how to make a Storm Bull shaman in RQG. Maybe Gods will explain it better? Until then, Strength, or Bull's Strength may end up on my list of Storm Bull's spell.

13 minutes ago, David Scott said:

The Storm Bull groups are pretty well defined:

There's about 10K Storm Bull initiates in Prax and the Wastes, of which about 100 are Khans. 5-8 High Khans each with about 12 Khans, each with a band of about 100 initiates. Some of these will form part of a tribal group, and some at the Paps, the block, etc.

I always assumed these High Khans were in charge of full functionning tribes (much smaller than Sartarite tribes of course) and not just gang leaders and the numbers above seem to support the theory. I assume a Khan and his 100 initiative roam and graze as a unit (a clan, a gang, a band) and I also assume that this unit has to be supported by healers, herders, nurturers of some sort which might double their rank. I also note that other High Khans are not mentionned, which is another fragment that nourished my idea above. What if one High Khans would make his sacred duty to clear that (quite big) area? The Raging Storm Tribe!

13 minutes ago, David Scott said:

 

I hope this helps, but as always, just make up stuff you want to do.

52603487_Screenshot2020-12-05at11_19_22.thumb.png.92c80008ba658361ffef2088dd8fb1ba.png

Yes, it's very helpful and it did keep my mind going. More than happy if you respond to tell me more about how it really works canonically (or semi canonically)

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14 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

When I mentionned "semi permanent settlement" I was more alluding to a Storm Khan adopting the area as his hunting ground, using the hills, oases and grassland as his launchpad to raid Chaos area.  I guess the idea emerged from reading various sources which led to a few thoughs that fed on one another. Based on Cults of Prax, Storm Bulls act with total disregard for tribal taboos. This led to the thought that they are probably less concerned about the taboos of the animal tribes and more concerned about destroying chaos. They seem to primarily focus on the cult leadership, reporting to their priests and khans above all, which over time I assumed developped into some tribes structured more or less around the cult structure. The tribe being the cult, the cult being the tribe. Such a tribe, would need to more than Storm Bull cultists to function beyond being just a band. I might be over reaching here.

The basis for the SB groups continued success is the support of all the clans in the area. Rather than having a semi-perminant base they receive tribute from everyone. They are effectively a very specialised warbands supported by all tribes. They don't have their own herds. Tribute can also mean protection money. If you want to graze Twixt, then you better have all the SBs well fed and supporting you (it is their duty and your duty to look after them).

14 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

Surely Storm Bull cultists would want to bring CA healers with them when they hunt Chaos. Good point though, they would certainly not be the most numerous of the lot.

The reverse is certainly not true. A CA healer out in the wastes is a massive story hook. There are a few CAs amongst clans, but they best serve large groups of individuals not berserkers. Remember SB Khans marry Earth priestesses.

14 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

I must admit that part confused me in Cults of Prax and I don't quite understand how to make a Storm Bull shaman in RQG. Maybe Gods will explain it better?

If a SB initiate qualifies as a shaman, they may be become one. If they qualify as a khan, they can become one too (it's not forbidden, unlike sorcery).

14 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

Until then, Strength, or Bull's Strength may end up on my list of Storm Bull's spell.

The High Priest must perform a ritual heroquest to obtain a Bull's part. Once they've got it it is like an extra allied spirit.

 

As I said you can always have your semi-perminant groups.

 

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30 minutes ago, David Scott said:

The basis for the SB groups continued success is the support of all the clans in the area. Rather than having a semi-perminant base they receive tribute from everyone. They are effectively a very specialised warbands supported by all tribes. They don't have their own herds. Tribute can also mean protection money. If you want to graze Twixt, then you better have all the SBs well fed and supporting you (it is their duty and your duty to look after them).

It actually makes a lot of sense.

30 minutes ago, David Scott said:

The reverse is certainly not true. A CA healer out in the wastes is a massive story hook. There are a few CAs amongst clans, but they best serve large groups of individuals not berserkers. Remember SB Khans marry Earth priestesses.

True but he could take her as a concubine. Or it could be his sister. Or heck, just a kidnapped healer. As you said, story hook.

30 minutes ago, David Scott said:

If a SB initiate qualifies as a shaman, they may be become one. If they qualify as a khan, they can become one too (it's not forbidden, unlike sorcery).

I somehow thought it was forbidden to be a shaman and a Rune Lord.

30 minutes ago, David Scott said:

The High Priest must perform a ritual heroquest to obtain a Bull's part. Once they've got it it is like an extra allied spirit.

Actually, what is a high priest of Storm Bull in the context of RQG. How do you become or qualiify to be one? How is it different than being a Rune Lord?

Also, in RQ2, didn't they lose the spirit once used (or after  a season), is this now diifferent in RQG?

30 minutes ago, David Scott said:

As I said you can always have your semi-perminant groups.

Sure but it's more fun to brainstorm like this. It gives me stuff to think about.

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6 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

It actually makes a lot of sense.

True but he could take her as a concubine. Or it could be his sister. Or heck, just a kidnapped healer. As you said, story hook.

Sure, that's always the best way.

6 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

I somehow thought it was forbidden to be a shaman and a Rune Lord.

It will specifically say what you can't do. the only restriction is no sorcery.

6 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

Actually, what is a high priest of Storm Bull in the context of RQG. How do you become or qualiify to be one? How is it different than being a Rune Lord?

That's a story hook. You need to be the top Storm Khan to be High Storm Khan. There are no requirements other than that of a Storm Khan.

6 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

Also, in RQ2, didn't they lose the spirit once used (or after  a season), is this now diifferent in RQG?

I have sent that as a correction. But only a season now.

 

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5 hours ago, David Scott said:

That's a story hook. You need to be the top Storm Khan to be High Storm Khan. There are no requirements other than that of a Storm Khan.

And in game terms, does High Priest = High Khan and Priest = Khan?

5 hours ago, David Scott said:

I have sent that as a correction. But only a season now.

I actually prefer it to not be limited to a season. Seems tedious to have to chase your spirits every season.

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20 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

And in game terms, does High Priest = High Khan and Priest = Khan?

Sort of. Storm Bull has no priests, just rune lords, so High Rune Lord 🙂

20 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

I actually prefer it to not be limited to a season. Seems tedious to have to chase your spirits every season.

These are extra special allied spirits (in addition to your allied spirit if you have one). You summon them for purpose. So a standard seasonal heroQuest might be like doing your khan making again - going naked and weaponless into the Devils Marsh to fight chaos. When killing your chaos foe, a part of the Bull will appear as a Storm Bull thank you, perhaps depending on the killing flourish or just your intent.

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On 12/5/2020 at 1:27 PM, DreadDomain said:

I was wondering lately about the potentially presence of a Storm Bull community centered around the Sandstorm Hills. Given the significance of the area, including the hills themselves, Vrak Kargh Vozh and the Raging Storm, and the proximity to spots where the Storm Khans would want to raid or at least aggressively monitor, like the Chaos Box, the Tunneled Hills or the Krjalki Bog, I could see Storm Bull cultists had being drawn to the area to settle there in a semi-permanent way to rage their unending battle against Chaos. Given the hostility of the area, surely this community would be composed of a mix of Storm Bull, Chalana Arroy and Eiritha followers with the odd Waha cultist and oasis people. I can't see a large following of any other cults (well except from the Lords of Terror themselves) wanting to live there.

Remember that any semi-permanent settlement is utterly predicated on 2 things; water and feed.  Now oases are a pretty reliable source of water, but if the area gets over-grazed the nomads will be forced to decamp the area to follow their herds, water or not.  The alternative is to split the herd up and graze it separately in pockets while the main plains regrow, but that creates a huge vulnerability to raiders who can pick off the smaller numbers of guards, herders and animals in detail.  If there were Oasis people involved in irrigating the Oasis, as there are in Prax, then the regrowth might be faster.  Now, back in RQ2, Eiritha had a skill called Find Water, which was essential to survival in the Wastes.  They would know where to look for hidden pools of standing water in among the rocks of arid hills, and which plant life signaled a good place to dig to get at ground water.  To be fit for human consumption that water will still need some basic filtering and boiling though, or Malia's little surprises will get you.  Shamans may also be able to find various water spirits in the desert that will lead them to supplies.  The war between Praxians and water is inescapable for both parties.

Now, as to Chaos in the area, remember that goats love deserts, and actually close crop plants down to their roots, promoting erosion so only goats can live there.  They are omnivores too, and willing to feed on nearly anything.  While not all Broos are goats, they are a good model for a chaos and its relationship to a local ecology.  Frankly there is a HUGE benefit for Chaos to occupy those areas.  If they can graze the area hard, then the Stormbulls cannot keep a herd there and have to leave.  It is a chaos victory based on destroying enemy supply.  If there are no Stormbulls in the area, then Chaos is less threatened and can spread to other areas with greater ease and exert more overall power.  As with most decisions in Prax, much depends upon resource availability and everything is a calculated risk for ALL sides at ALL times.

On 12/5/2020 at 1:27 PM, DreadDomain said:

If such a community would exist and would have settled there a long time ago, I assume they would be descendants of the animal tribes, perhaps mainly from the Bison tribe? Would they still be part of the tribes culture or, as Storm Bull does, would they have become their own thing?

 Stormbull only somewhat serves as a means of guaranteeing co-operation between Praxians.  There is always the implicit threat that if one tribe predominates in an area that they may rescind hospitality to other tribes.  You need to remember that Praxians DO NOT see settlement and civilization as a virtue.  Praxians are a nomadic culture, and they know all too well that settlements are a trap.  How many times have they seen settled people being trapped into slavery due to being unable to survive in the desert?  The Oasis people... Pavisites... Sartarites... Lunars... etc.  A settled and sedentary life is the antithesis of freedom to Praxians; it is tantamount to slavery.  To paraphrase he band Ministry's song "Jesus built my hot rod" "Nobody with a good mount needs to worry about nothing...Where you come from is gone.  Where you're going to weren't never there, and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it". 

All the same I don't want to derail your plans, and there are loads of workable alternatives to consider.  If Praxians have neither the means nor the motive to settle the area, it needs to be said that they aren't the only team with an interest in the doing so.  For example, Sheng Seleris' empire once occupied the area, and may have seen some value in providing a caravanserai with fortification due to the potential threat of chaos in the area.  It is also possible that some chaotic warlord/hero quester might have seen some value in a permanent settlement in the area in order to ruin Stormbull ritual use of the area.  Trolls are also always an option, as they can eat anything and hate chaos, and could happily live in a cave system in the area, potentially sharing it with Stormbulls due to Zorak Zoran and Stormbull's long standing friendship.  There is also the fact that not all Stormbulls are nomads; some are Uroxi, and Uroxi don't have the same nomadic prejudice.  As a longer shot, you might have the area once settled by Kralori, Teshnan or Jrusteli long ago, and the nomads now camp in the rubble, forcing slaves to do slipdshod maintenance on the defenses when they can be bothered to force the issue.

On 12/5/2020 at 1:27 PM, DreadDomain said:

What would the Sandstorm Hills look like? Like Sahara desert hills akin to the Algerian Hoggar mountains? Like the Australian outback like the Rainbow Valley in the Northern Territory? Like the Mesas in the American West? 

 The Hoggars are probably the best real world analogy, though possibly they are a bit too high imo.

On 12/5/2020 at 1:27 PM, DreadDomain said:

A side observation that struck as odd, only realized this for the first time in decades, the Storm Bull cult, or associate cults, does not provide any Strength spells... such a spell would seem so appropriate for the Bull!  

When you play a shaman in RQ3, you come to see the spirit spell list more as a suggestion than anything set in stone.  These are spells that can be taught with a use of divine magic, but spirits can still teach those spells.  In truth, while we often have a Conan-esque vision of what Stormbulls are like, they are not stereotypical barbarians like that at all.  Whenever possible a Stormbull will charge his enemies with a lance or shoot them with a bow from the back of a fast moving mount.  Hand to hand combat on foot is not something Praxians have any love for whatsoever.  Strength can be very useful in combination with Berserk in an enclosed environment.  Hunting chaos through caves is a supremely dangerous undertaking for Praxians as they lose most of their combat advantages.  Provided they can get their knife-axes around corners, the High Llamas are likely the best, as the potential for 3d6+Dam Bonus+bladesharp at a good strike rank due to superior reach is very effective (and using Strength spell for a potential +1 to 2d6 extra damage bonus is tempting).  If you haven't read the scenario "The Black Broo of Dyskund" it is pretty much the RQ gold standard for cave fighting imo.

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On 12/15/2020 at 6:58 PM, Darius West said:

Remember that any semi-permanent settlement is utterly predicated on 2 things; water and feed.  Now oases are a pretty reliable source of water, but if the area gets over-grazed the nomads will be forced to decamp the area to follow their herds, water or not.  The alternative is to split the herd up and graze it separately in pockets while the main plains regrow, but that creates a huge vulnerability to raiders who can pick off the smaller numbers of guards, herders and animals in detail.  If there were Oasis people involved in irrigating the Oasis, as there are in Prax, then the regrowth might be faster. 

That is why I could see a significant Storm Bull communities make the Sandstorm Hills their hunting ground. There are plenty of chaos to chase around and there are a number of grazelands, oases and serpents around it. I could see them roam from one to another.

Quote

Now, back in RQ2, Eiritha had a skill called Find Water, which was essential to survival in the Wastes.  They would know where to look for hidden pools of standing water in among the rocks of arid hills, and which plant life signaled a good place to dig to get at ground water.  To be fit for human consumption that water will still need some basic filtering and boiling though, or Malia's little surprises will get you.  Shamans may also be able to find various water spirits in the desert that will lead them to supplies.  The war between Praxians and water is inescapable for both parties.

All good examples of why I saw this group/community/clan/tribe as more than just a warband. To remain in the Wastes long enough and keep raiding chaos centers, you need more than just a band of Storm Bull berserkers. They need to herd, heal, find water, conduct divinations, chases spirits, etc. It needs to be supported.

Quote

Now, as to Chaos in the area, remember that goats love deserts, and actually close crop plants down to their roots, promoting erosion so only goats can live there.  They are omnivores too, and willing to feed on nearly anything.  While not all Broos are goats, they are a good model for a chaos and its relationship to a local ecology.  Frankly there is a HUGE benefit for Chaos to occupy those areas.  If they can graze the area hard, then the Stormbulls cannot keep a herd there and have to leave.  It is a chaos victory based on destroying enemy supply.  If there are no Stormbulls in the area, then Chaos is less threatened and can spread to other areas with greater ease and exert more overall power

More reasons to have them in the area!

Quote

Stormbull only somewhat serves as a means of guaranteeing co-operation between Praxians.  There is always the implicit threat that if one tribe predominates in an area that they may rescind hospitality to other tribes.  You need to remember that Praxians DO NOT see settlement and civilization as a virtue.  Praxians are a nomadic culture, and they know all too well that settlements are a trap.  How many times have they seen settled people being trapped into slavery due to being unable to survive in the desert?  The Oasis people... Pavisites... Sartarites... Lunars... etc.  A settled and sedentary life is the antithesis of freedom to Praxians; it is tantamount to slavery.

All agreed. I have used "settled" and "semi-permanent" in my description but I did not mean by that build villages and start farming the land (uhh... clearly not in the Wastes). I guess I meant two things really. First, they would roam the area around Sandstorm and other places of significance like Vrak Kargh Vozh and the Raging Storm, and make their (unending) mission to cleanse and monitor the Chaos Box, the Tunneled Hills, the Krjalki Bog, etc. Second, as expressed above, they would be more than a warband. One of the 8 High Khans could have made the area, his hunting ground, his mission. Clearly, they would not always be there, the area can only support so many people.

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To paraphrase he band Ministry's song "Jesus built my hot rod" "Nobody with a good mount needs to worry about nothing...Where you come from is gone.  Where you're going to weren't never there, and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it". 

Ah Ministry! I loved that band back in the days. Not my favourite album though.

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All the same I don't want to derail your plans, and there are loads of workable alternatives to consider.  If Praxians have neither the means nor the motive to settle the area, it needs to be said that they aren't the only team with an interest in the doing so.  For example, Sheng Seleris' empire once occupied the area, and may have seen some value in providing a caravanserai with fortification due to the potential threat of chaos in the area.  It is also possible that some chaotic warlord/hero quester might have seen some value in a permanent settlement in the area in order to ruin Stormbull ritual use of the area.  Trolls are also always an option, as they can eat anything and hate chaos, and could happily live in a cave system in the area, potentially sharing it with Stormbulls due to Zorak Zoran and Stormbull's long standing friendship.

Nothing to derail really. Those are all good ideas.

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There is also the fact that not all Stormbulls are nomads; some are Uroxi, and Uroxi don't have the same nomadic prejudice.

Hmmmm... not a bad idea either. I could probably see a number of Uroxi joining the group. I guess you are saying that Uroxi could have settled the place in the true sense of the word... 

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When you play a shaman in RQ3, you come to see the spirit spell list more as a suggestion than anything set in stone.  These are spells that can be taught with a use of divine magic, but spirits can still teach those spells.  In truth, while we often have a Conan-esque vision of what Stormbulls are like, they are not stereotypical barbarians like that at all.

I was not necessarily picturing Conan but as a stereotype, "Big, Burly, Brutal, Berserker, Barbarians" comes to (my) mind. I would see Stormbulls and Uroxi amongst the premier "Big, Burly, Brutal", much more so then Orlanth, Humakt or Ernalda (who all have Strength). The RBoM only reinforces that view since many beast gods provide a strength rune spells. Bear, lion, boar and elk beast gods all have it but not the bull himself? To make my position clear, I am not saying that Storm Bull not providing any strength spell (rune or spirit) is bad, wrong or broken and even if I did, I don't think I would change anyone's mind. I simply find it odd and I suppose no amount of attempt to convince me will change my mind.

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Whenever possible a Stormbull will charge his enemies with a lance or shoot them with a bow from the back of a fast moving mount.  Hand to hand combat on foot is not something Praxians have any love for whatsoever.  Strength can be very useful in combination with Berserk in an enclosed environment.  Hunting chaos through caves is a supremely dangerous undertaking for Praxians as they lose most of their combat advantages.  Provided they can get their knife-axes around corners, the High Llamas are likely the best, as the potential for 3d6+Dam Bonus+bladesharp at a good strike rank due to superior reach is very effective (and using Strength spell for a potential +1 to 2d6 extra damage bonus is tempting).  If you haven't read the scenario "The Black Broo of Dyskund" it is pretty much the RQ gold standard for cave fighting imo.

Correct, not all chaos fighting can be done from the back of their animal, CQC, tunnel fighting is also part of the job.

Thanks for your post Darius, lots to consider.

Edited by DreadDomain
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On 12/5/2020 at 10:07 PM, David Scott said:

The Storm Bull groups are pretty well defined:

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Throughout Prax there are usually between five and eight High Khans of the cult wandering across the plains. Those known to have continued existence were the High Khan of the Storm-Impalas (which attracted those worshipers from the pigmy tribe of the plains), the High Khan of the Pavis Temple, the High Khan of the Bullocks, the High Priest of , and the High Khan of the Paps. Other High Khans are mentioned without being named.

Each High Khan is the Bull’s Head and serves as a center of information and judgments for the followers. He is assisted by a varying number of priests who have titles such as Heart of the Bull, Horns of the Bull, Liver of the Bull, and so on. These are explained later. Other priests also report to the High Khans, even if they operate in a band on their own.

 

Expand  

There's about 10K Storm Bull initiates in Prax and the Wastes, of which about 100 are Khans. 5-8 High Khans each with about 12 Khans, each with a band of about 100 initiates. Some of these will form part of a tribal group, and some at the Paps, the block, etc.

Would you mind expanding on the typical structure under a High Khan?

Each High Khan has 12 Khans under him and each Khans has around 100 initiates. Would the group led by a Khan be called a clan? A warband? Would the grouping of the clans under a High Khan be called a tribe? Or is that less formal with initiates still attached to their original clan/tribe unless called upon by the Khan?

Would the make up of a clan, or even tribe, be made of mostly from one specific group (in clan A all Storm Bulls are mostly Bison riders, in clan B impala riders, etc...) or is there a mix coming from various tribe? Once under a Khan is their primary loyalty to the Khan or to their animal tribe?

How often and in what occasion would the Khans report to the High Khan. Where would they do so?

As a side question, what are "the Bullocks" and "Karkarjan’s Sword". I can't seem to find any other references to them.

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7 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Would you mind expanding on the typical structure under a High Khan?

7 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Each High Khan has 12 Khans under him and each Khan has around 100 initiates.

The best place to start is the cult as that's what it's based around. First look at temple sizes:

Site (0–125 lay members and initiates)

Shrine (75–225 lay members and initiates)

Minor Temple (150–500 lay members and initiates)

Major Temple (400–1,000 lay members and initiates)

Great Temple (750–4,000+ lay members and initiates)

So when a High Khan and associate khans meet - there's about 1300 initiates in total (the High khan has a band too and includes 3-4 other khans) so that's a Major temple. I realise that they could be a great temple, but I'd reserve that for the Paps Khan as they have the infrastructure for the associate cults.

Each of the 12 khans has 100 initiates (plus associated lay members), so 100 = a shrine. Occassionally they will get enough to create a Minor temple, or two groups meet up.

7 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

How often and in what occasion would the Khans report to the High Khan. Where would they do so?

Best to look at Holy days.

One per season in Stasis week, that's the best time and it means you can make a major temple and get access to all rune spells.

Where would likely by prior arrangement at or near one of the holy places: The Block, The dead place (on the edge), Stormwalk Mountain (rarely). In the Wastes: edge of the Krjalki Bog, always at Chaos Box, likely a few others I've forgotten.

7 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Would the group led by a Khan be called a clan? A warband?

Band. They are not clans.

7 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Would the grouping of the clans under a High Khan be called a tribe?

No. It's a religious group.

7 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Or is that less formal with initiates still attached to their original clan/tribe unless called upon by the Khan?

Yes, they are still members of their original clan and tribe, Storm Khans can get a gift each year from their tribal khan: "This gift must be at least three beasts suitable for riding or eating, as specified by the priest, and the exchange of all damaged weapons from the Storm Bulls for as many repaired and whole weapons from the tribe." if they miss it one year it is not cumulative!

7 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Would the make up of a clan, or even tribe, be made of mostly from one specific group (in clan A all Storm Bulls are mostly Bison riders, in clan B impala riders, etc...) or is there a mix coming from various tribe? Once under a Khan is their primary loyalty to the Khan or to their animal tribe?

To their Khan. They are inter-tribal so mixed groups exist, along with sole tribe groups.

7 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

As a side question, what are "the Bullocks" and "Karkarjan’s Sword". I can't seem to find any other references to them.

The Bullocks are a Storm Bull band loyal to Argrath (see Glorantha Sourcebook page 43). There is also a member in Pavis GTA page 101. They first appeared in the Dragon Pass board game as part of the Sartar free Army: 

133380199_Screenshot2020-12-24at18_02_56.png.b93dc138f6ca13d449ebe0677afb8705.png1168551748_Screenshot2020-12-24at18_03_12.png.793ccbc09712ec81f67246f16ab109f1.png

They probably don't ride horses unless they are Pol-joni.

Karkarjan’s Sword is a made up name for you to with what you want.

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On 12/24/2020 at 9:08 PM, David Scott said:

Karkarjan’s Sword is a made up name for you to with what you want.

It was a sword, owned by Karkarjan, if that's any help.

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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2 hours ago, soltakss said:

It was a sword, owned by Karkarjan, if that's any help.

I thought it was founded at an ephemeral sword shaped oasis in the Wastes by the High Llama hero Karkajan. The entire oasis is the band's wyter.

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4 hours ago, David Scott said:

I thought it was founded at an ephemeral sword shaped oasis in the Wastes by the High Llama hero Karkajan. The entire oasis is the band's wyter.

Same thing 😀

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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On 12/27/2020 at 1:36 AM, David Scott said:

I thought it was founded at an ephemeral sword shaped oasis in the Wastes by the High Llama hero Karkajan. The entire oasis is the band's wyter.

Thanks Dave, your previous answer and this one are very useful. 

Just for fun, I have collated the spells available to Storm Bulls, including the ones from the associated cults but excluding the common ones:

Rune Spells: Berserker, Cure Chaos Wound (Chalana Arroy), Dismiss Air Elemental (small), Earthpower (Ernalda), Face Chaos, Fear (Zorak Zoran), Impede Chaos, Shield (Orlanth), Summon Air Elemental (small), Summon Spirit of Law (Waha).

Note. To replace Part of the Bull, I have added to the list Bull’s Strength (Similar to Elk Strength) that is ony availblle to Storm Khans (Rune Lords). It only covers Bull's Heart and Bull's Hide though.

Spirit Spells: Befuddle (Chalana Aroy, Ernalda), Bladesharp (Orlanth), Bludgeon (Zorak Zoran), Countermagic (Waha), Darkwall (Zorak Zoran), Demoralize, Detect Enemies, Detect Spirit (Waha), Dispel Magic, Disruption (Orlanth), Distraction (Waha), Dullblade (Chalana Arroy, Zorak Zoran), Fanaticism, Farsee (Eiritha), Firearrow (Zorak Zoran), Fireblade (Zorak Zoran), Heal, Ignite (Zorak Zoran), Light (Chalana Arroy), Mobility (Orlanth), Protection, Shimmer (Chalana Arroy, Ernalda), Second Sight (Ernalda, Waha), Slow (Eiritha, Ernalada, Waha), Speedart (Waha), Spirit Screen (Eiritha, Waha), Strength (Ernalda, Orlanth), Vigor (Ernalda, Waha)

Not a bad selection at all!

Cults of Prax describes other spirits that High Priests can control.

The Bull’s Head- It may engage any spirit in spirit combat.

The Bull’s Heart- It has a Strength spell (already available through Ernalda and Orlanth)

The Bull’s Hide- This spirit carries a Rune magic Shield spell (already available through Orlanth)

The Bull’s Feet- This spirit carries a Mobility spell (already available through Orlanth)

The Bull’s Hooves- This spirit carries a Bludgeon 4 spell (already available through Zorak Zoran)

I suspect it will not work the same in RQG since some of them are already available spells from associated cults. Can you give some insight on how Parts of the Bull will work as per the upcoming Gods book or if it is a concept that was even retained? In CoP, it is only available to "High Priests", which I read as High Khans. It seems to require to be awfully high in the food chain to access fairly common spirit magic (or Shield which is available anyway). Only the Bull's Head seems to bring some benefit above what is already easily available.

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