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Encumbrance


Nightshade

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Is it just me, or is the section on Encumbrance on page 180 missing something? It tells you what constitutes encumbrance, but doesn't actually tell you what it does, or what the value is. Part of it may be in the Fatigue section, but it seems like something is still missing, in terms of the reference to excess encumbrance slowing you (which doesn't seem to be explained anywhere).

Given this seems like its derived from the RQ3 version, I can probably just go back and look at what it did there, but I'm trying to make sure I haven't just missed something.

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Encumbrance had effects only on Fatigue and a limited set of skills (Dodge, Jump and Swim) in RQ3. It never affected movement, which is not extremely realistic. BRP does not go beyond this treatment.

In general, BRP derived games do not treat Encumbrance very well, so it is better if you just use Common Sense and impose penalties on characters whose player believes that one can be both a fighter and a pack mule at the same time.

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Encumbrance had effects only on Fatigue and a limited set of skills (Dodge, Jump and Swim) in RQ3. It never affected movement, which is not extremely realistic. BRP does not go beyond this treatment.

In general, BRP derived games do not treat Encumbrance very well, so it is better if you just use Common Sense and impose penalties on characters whose player believes that one can be both a fighter and a pack mule at the same time.

We kind of prefer to have a fairly hard-numbers approach here, at least when it comes to thresholds.

Huh. I'd forgotten that RQ3 didn't have a movement penalty for encumbrance. Too many games over the years I guess.

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Is it just me, or is the section on Encumbrance on page 180 missing something? It tells you what constitutes encumbrance, but doesn't actually tell you what it does, or what the value is. Part of it may be in the Fatigue section, but it seems like something is still missing, in terms of the reference to excess encumbrance slowing you (which doesn't seem to be explained anywhere).

Given this seems like its derived from the RQ3 version, I can probably just go back and look at what it did there, but I'm trying to make sure I haven't just missed something.

Its not in the Fatigue area other than to state that it reduces from your Fatigue value, so the more you carry, the sooner you tire.

If you have a copy or can borrow one, look at the system in Classic Fantasy. Its level based, as many of the options described on this board, and it includes movement penalties for those heavily encumbered.

Other than that, off the top of my head, I would say that someone carrying a load in excess of STRx2 would suffer a -1 to their move, and another -1 for each additional multiple of STR (STRx3= -3 MOV, etc.).

Just remember that the distribution of the load is as important as its mass in determining things like this.

SDLeary

Edited by SDLeary
added distribution stuff
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I think that no movement penalty for encumbrance is more realistic. A guy in full armor and pack can actually run just as fast as someone without all that junk.

It's just that he can't keep doing it for as long. After only a couple of rounds or so the guy in plate is going to tire and then slow down. It's not the ENC that slows people down it's the fatigue.

Something like CON rolls to avoid penalties (say -10% to abilities and -1 MOV) would seem about right. the Multiplier and frequency of the rolls would be determined by the load carries, how well distributed it is, environmental conditions, and the STR and SIZ of the encumbered.

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I think that no movement penalty for encumbrance is more realistic. A guy in full armor and pack can actually run just as fast as someone without all that junk.

It's just that he can't keep doing it for as long. After only a couple of rounds or so the guy in plate is going to tire and then slow down. It's not the ENC that slows people down it's the fatigue.

Something like CON rolls to avoid penalties (say -10% to abilities and -1 MOV) would seem about right. the Multiplier and frequency of the rolls would be determined by the load carries, how well distributed it is, environmental conditions, and the STR and SIZ of the encumbered.

In practice, I think I'm going to suggest we use the RQ: AIG style fatigue (since its less niggly than the Fatigue Point system and deals with long term fatigue better), and encumbrance is already factored into that, so its probably not a big deal.

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If you have a copy or can borrow one, look at the system in Classic Fantasy. Its level based, as many of the options described on this board, and it includes movement penalties for those heavily encumbered.

This system is also in Nick Middleton's Outpost 19. He actually came up with it. I just liked it enough to want to include it in Classic Fantasy and he was nice enough to let me. I did make some changes to it however to better fit the genre.

Credit where it's do and all.

Also, for those that don't like ENC level reducing MOV. His version doesn't do that. I just prefer it in my games. I can see someone with a suit of armor or a pack being able to run as fast as someone without for short periods, but throw a chest/dresser on his back and weight him down with swaying 50 lb. bags of gold and silver and even I can out run him. I'm just saying that there has to come a time when ENC slows you down. To each his own I guess.

Rod

Edited by threedeesix

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BRP is definitely missing the details of an encumbrance system. So I came up with the following (which, I hope, doesn't too badly contravene what The Book says):

Encumbrance Capacity: SIZ x (STR + 10) / 20 (x14 lbs). Over half Encumbers: Movement, Initiative & Dex-based skills are x1/2.

Armour Burden (Light/Moderate/Heavy) can affect physical (generally DEX-based) skills, movement rate and magic spell-casting.

Light: no skill penalty, -1 Move, +10% Magic fumble. Moderate: Skills x1/2, -2 Move, +20% Magic fumble. Heavy: Skills x 1/10, -3 Move, +30% Magic fumble. Listen/Spot skills are greatly disadvantaged in Full/Great Helm; Lock-picking, Shooting Bows and Playing Instruments are impossible in Gauntlets. Anyone not trained to the burden of armour is automatically Encumbered.

Fatigue Exertion (e.g. combat) for a turn requires a CONx5 roll to avoid Fatigue (Movement, Initiative & all skills x1/2) or if already fatigued Exhaustion (x1/10). Recovery from fatigue requires rest for 1 hour; exhaustion 8 hours.

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I've got something similar. Six levels: Hale, Winded, Tired, Weary, Spent, Exhausted.

Assuming Hale, at the end of combat or other exertion roll Con x5 - Enc. You make it, you are still Hale, if not you drop to Winded, which imposes a -5% on skill rolls. Roll at Winded is Con x4 - Enc. Make it, stay Winded, don't then you fall to Tired which is -10% to rolls. And on... each level going down one Con multiple and doubling the skill roll penalty from the level before.

I hadn't thought about adding a Mov penalty, but might at the higher levels.

SDLeary

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...If you have a copy or can borrow one, look at the system in Classic Fantasy. Its level based, as many of the options described on this board, and it includes movement penalties for those heavily encumbered...

In the interests of full disclosure I should point out that RQ:AiG (aka RQIV) was, along with Ars Magica 2nd edition a major influence on those fatigue rules.

And the intention was always to model (in a useful fashion for a game) fatigue, not encumbrance, as the rules have always done a reasonable job of describing whats heavy and what's not, and what's awkward to carry and what isn't. I wanted a system that would let me do Morgaine and Vanye, without having to go in to too much detail about exactly how much they were carrying.

Cheers,

Nick

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In the interests of full disclosure I should point out that RQ:AiG (aka RQIV) was, along with Ars Magica 2nd edition a major influence on those fatigue rules.

I was thinking it sounded somewhat like the RQ4/AIG version from the summary. Of course since I'm rather fonder of that version than the RQ3 fatigue points, that's not an objection. :)

And the intention was always to model (in a useful fashion for a game) fatigue, not encumbrance, as the rules have always done a reasonable job of describing whats heavy and what's not, and what's awkward to carry and what isn't. I wanted a system that would let me do Morgaine and Vanye, without having to go in to too much detail about exactly how much they were carrying.

To be honest, its more than anything else a case that as written the rules confused me; it sounded like the Encumbrance was intended to be used with and without the fatigue point system, and there really didn't seem to be any explanation of what it did without fatigue; there doesn't seem to actually be any effects or such listed except for the Physical Skill/Dodge penalty, and that seems completely independent of your Strength unless I'm missing something.

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