About Nyarlathothep

[Lloyd Dupont]

I am speed reading the Masks of Nyarlathothep and... I realize that my lack of lore isn't helping...

I wonder, do people who worship Nyarlathothep are aware he has many form or only know and worship one form? At this stage of my reading it's unclear... And it might be important, I reckon!

 

[EDIT]
To gather all advice and ideas on about that campaign in one place.. please use my previous thread (and so will I for now)

Mask of Nyarlathotep for dummy - Call of Cthulhu - BRP Central - The Chaosium forums (basicroleplaying.org)

Edited April 13, 2021 by Lloyd Dupont

[Lloyd Dupont]

Hi, good idea... I renamed my previous thread.... And will post further question and comments over there.

Mask of Nyarlathotep for dummy - Call of Cthulhu - BRP Central - The Chaosium forums (basicroleplaying.org)

Edited April 13, 2021 by Lloyd Dupont

[Darius West]

On 4/13/2021 at 11:26 PM, Lloyd Dupont said:

I am speed reading the Masks of Nyarlathothep and... I realize that my lack of lore isn't helping...

I wonder, do people who worship Nyarlathothep are aware he has many form or only know and worship one form? At this stage of my reading it's unclear... And it might be important, I reckon!

 

[EDIT]
To gather all advice and ideas on about that campaign in one place.. please use my previous thread (and so will I for now)

Mask of Nyarlathotep for dummy - Call of Cthulhu - BRP Central - The Chaosium forums (basicroleplaying.org)

As a rule of thumb, if the bad guy has a C'thulhu mythos of 30% or less, they likely have no idea that Nyarlathotep has masks.  From 30%-50% they may have suspicions, and if they are intelligent (Int 16-18+), they may have figured it out.  Otherwise the 51% serves as a bracket that determines that they definitely know Nyarlathotep has masks.  This is an arbitrary rule that I have just dreamed up, feel free to use or modify it.  Really, you are the Keeper, and it is up to you who knows what.  The system I have outlined might be useful in giving the rules some context for the NPCs however.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Darius West

[EricW]

Nyarlathotep is an educator, in at least some of his masks. Like the Church of Starry Wisdom, who worshipped Nyarlathotep in his guise as the haunter of the dark, would have caught many glimpses of other forms of their god in the hideous visions their worship granted to them. The only impediment to this deeper understanding might have been the sheer horror of what they were witnessing would likely have turned most of their brains to jello. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by EricW

[Darius West]

On 4/15/2021 at 9:45 PM, EricW said:

Nyarlathotep is an educator, in at least some of his masks. Like the Church of Starry Wisdom, who worshipped Nyarlathotep in his guise as the haunter of the dark, would have caught many glimpses of other forms of their god in the hideous visions their worship granted to them. The only impediment to this deeper understanding might have been the sheer horror of what they were witnessing would likely have turned most of their brains to jello. 

Educator or Cosmic Internet Troll?

[Lloyd Dupont]

Maybe he is a Troll God, but as a god, even his trolling is very informative! ^_^ 

[EricW]

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

Educator or Cosmic Internet Troll?

He's my hero 😉

[tendentious]

At at least one point in MoN, a (friendly) NPC flat-out tells the PCs that the different gods are avatars of Nyarlathotep. I said "Nuts" to that!

My take was: what's the point of being a trickster god if everyone is in on the gag? The different cults worshipped their various gods, and worked towards the common goal that would release them all. It makes the organising efforts of the Carlyle expedition more necessary, to weld these disparate cults together and work towards a single goal.

Another possibility is that the idea that all the gods are avatars of N is just one belief held by some followers. Other followers view their particular god as an entity in it's own right. Or they view it as the manifestation of another entity entirely, such as Yog-Sothoth or even a more traditional figure such as Satan. The mind-blasting visions bestowed by your god may not be the most reliable source of information from which to draw any conclusions.

Or what if just as N sometimes takes human form, maybe sometimes the Bloated Woman (for example) is a singular entity, and other times it's N masquerading as the Bloated Woman? Maybe some of the gods "are" N; some gods "are" N some of the time and something else at other times; some gods only "think" they're N - what's the difference between a god that "is" Nyarlathotep and a god that merely thinks that it is Nyarlathotep?

For me, it's a bit weak if the players can say "the gods of all the cults are Nyarlathotep - got it!" and go on as if they know what's going on. They should never feel that they've reached the bottom. As for the NPCs, the cults may be sporadically wracked by violence brought about by disagreements about the nature of godhead. Don't forget; these cultists are crazy. They may each have a different idea about the nature of their god.

[EricW]

On 4/18/2021 at 11:27 PM, tendentious said:

At at least one point in MoN, a (friendly) NPC flat-out tells the PCs that the different gods are avatars of Nyarlathotep. I said "Nuts" to that!

There is a strong suggestion the entire universe may be a figment of Azathoth’s imagination.

Maybe that is why Azathoth worshippers go insane - they know with utter certainty there is no meaning, that the existence of everything they have ever known is as ephemeral as foam produced by a wave crashing on the shore of the cosmic ocean.

The nihilism is the product of the utter emptiness of their existence. Azathoth is the only tangible.

Or something like that 😉

[tendentious]

4 minutes ago, EricW said:

There is a strong suggestion the entire universe may be a figment of Azathoth’s imagination.

Maybe that is why Azathoth worshippers go insane - they know with utter certainty there is no meaning, that the existence of everything they have ever known is as ephemeral as foam produced by a wave crashing on the shore of the cosmic ocean.

The nihilism is the product of the utter emptiness of their existence. Azathoth is the only tangible.

Or something like that 😉

My "Nuts" comment is to do with the fact that an NPC just tells them this in conversation. It's not to do with the idea that the gods are all Nyarlathotep - although the rest of the post details my thoughts about that.

[Atgxtg]

On 4/18/2021 at 9:27 AM, tendentious said:

At at least one point in MoN, a (friendly) NPC flat-out tells the PCs that the different gods are avatars of Nyarlathotep. I said "Nuts" to that!

My take was: what's the point of being a trickster god if everyone is in on the gag?

I don't think Nyarlthotep is really a trickster god. More like an agent of destruction and chaos. That he has multiple guises isn't so much a trick or gag, but his merely assuming the form that he thinks will best help him to accomplish his goals. Whether or not any humans have figured that out of not probably doesn't concern him. He probably doesn't hide it, he doesn't doesn't bother to spell it out to most people, either. It's not like it really makes any difference. Cultist and followers are useful in that they can make his job easier - that is when they can. 

Less Loki or Coyote and more Doomsday weapon with a mind and a purpose who gets a lot of leeway in how he does his job, with a lot of time to kill. Or maybe like a cruel child with an ant farm, and we're the ants. He might be amused if one or more of the ants do something clever, and might even give them a reward for it, but in the end they are still ants, and only so entertaining, and he has lots of other toys to play with.

[EricW]

6 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

I don't think Nyarlthotep is really a trickster god. More like an agent of destruction and chaos. That he has multiple guises isn't so much a trick or gag, but his merely assuming the form that he thinks will best help him to accomplish his goals. Whether or not any humans have figured that out of not probably doesn't concern him. He probably doesn't hide it, he doesn't doesn't bother to spell it out to most people, either. It's not like it really makes any difference. Cultist and followers are useful in that they can make his job easier - that is when they can. 

If this was a case summon Nyarlathotep spells would produce a different result every time they were used. But the summon spells are predictable, at least in terms of the result they produce, the form of the visitor who answer the summons. Although who knows - a being as subtle and powerful as Nyarlathotep could arrange events so the spell he wanted was cast when he wanted, so control might only be an illusion.

6 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Less Loki or Coyote and more Doomsday weapon with a mind and a purpose who gets a lot of leeway in how he does his job, with a lot of time to kill. Or maybe like a cruel child with an ant farm, and we're the ants. He might be amused if one or more of the ants do something clever, and might even give them a reward for it, but in the end they are still ants, and only so entertaining, and he has lots of other toys to play with.

Nyarlathotep is cruel in human terms. But a lot of people seem to survive his attention, and gain knowledge and new insights, like the victim of Nyarlathotep's cruel joke in HP Lovecraft's Under the Pyramid. Hence my claim he is a teacher - though not a teacher most students would thank.

Edited April 20, 2021 by EricW

[Atgxtg]

3 hours ago, EricW said:

If this was a case summon Nyarlathotep spells would produce a different result every time they were used. But the summon spells are predictable, at least in terms of the result they produce, the form of the visitor who answer the summons. Although who knows - a being as subtle and powerful as Nyarlathotep could arrange events so the spell he wanted was cast when he wanted, so control might only be an illusion.

Only if the result was random. I don't think the summon spell can actually force him to appear. He chooses to do so. He want to cause madness and insanity. 

Quote

Nyarlathotep is cruel in human terms. But a lot of people seem to survive his attention, and gain knowledge and new insights, like the victim of Nyarlathotep's cruel joke in HP Lovecraft's Under the Pyramid. Hence my claim he is a teacher - though not a teacher most students would thank.

Yes, becuase he'd rather drive them mad and get thim to do his bidding that just destroy them. He is in no way benevolent, nor is he even indifferent. But he has lots of space and time to watch and can't find anything worth watching so he comes here and toys with us. It beats cable.

 

Trickster gods usually serve a purpose, teaching important life lessons to members of the faith. Nyarlathotep doesn't do that. He knows there aren't any important life lessons for humans to learn. That's kinda the point. In his eyes we only exist to amuse him.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Atgxtg

[EricW]

5 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Only if the result was random. I don't think the summon spell can actually force him to appear. He chooses to do so. He want to cause madness and insanity. 

Yes, becuase he'd rather drive them mad and get thim to do his bidding that just destroy them. He is in no way benevolent, nor is he even indifferent. But he has lots of space and time to watch and can't find anything worth watching so he comes here and toys with us. It beats cable.

 

Trickster gods usually serve a purpose, teaching important life lessons to members of the faith. Nyarlathotep doesn't do that. He knows there aren't any important life lessons for humans to learn. That's kinda the point. In his eyes we only exist to amuse him.

Oh but we do have important lessons to learn - we are not observing the correct forms of worship. Many of us even deny or are ignorant of the existence of the mythos.

Nyarlathotep's view of how humans should behave corresponds to SAN zero,  but this doesn't mean he is objectively wrong. it is just a matter of perspective - human perspective vs the preferences of an incomprehensible cosmic horror.

Personally I'm happy to live in a place where screaming mobs are not marching down the street demanding I get on my knees and grovel before their insanity, or randomly attacking people for giving offence against their madness, but maybe that's just me.

Edited April 20, 2021 by EricW

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, EricW said:

Oh but we do have important lessons to learn - we are not observing the correct forms of worship. Many of us even deny or are ignorant of the existence of the mythos.

I don't think it's that important to him. If it were he'd have just revealed himself and told us all what the deal was. If a being with godlike powers were to appear in public and demonstrate his powers he'd get many more converts far more quickly. But that wouldn't be as much fun for him.

Quote

Nyarlathotep's view of how humans should behave corresponds to SAN zero,  but this doesn't mean he is objectively wrong. it is just a matter of perspective - human perspective vs the preferences of an incomprehensible cosmic horror.

I don't think it's his view n how humans should behave, just that he gets his kicks making us go insane. I suspect that if everybody was at SAN 0 he'd be bored because he couldn't drive us insane anymore. He'd probably want to make peopel sane just so he can drive them insane.

Quote

Personally I'm happy to live in a place where screaming mobs are not marching down the street demanding I get on my knees and grovel before their insanity, or randomly attacking people for giving offence against their madness, but maybe that's just me.

Sadly there seem to cities where that is happening.  These days a sports team can't even win a championship without rioting, mayhem and death. Maybe we all should be speed reading the Masks of Nyarlathothep?

Edited April 20, 2021 by Atgxtg

[Darius West]

On 4/18/2021 at 10:26 PM, EricW said:

He's my hero 😉

Careful now, the Audient Void might be listening. 😄

Edited April 22, 2021 by Darius West

[Darius West]

On 4/18/2021 at 11:27 PM, tendentious said:

At at least one point in MoN, a (friendly) NPC flat-out tells the PCs that the different gods are avatars of Nyarlathotep. I said "Nuts" to that!

This is a good point.  Of course there also needs to be a way by which the different Masks are linked together, and there will eventually need to be a reveal.

[tendentious]

On 4/22/2021 at 10:26 PM, Darius West said:

This is a good point.  Of course there also needs to be a way by which the different Masks are linked together, and there will eventually need to be a reveal.

One possibility is insane insight. Particularly appropriate if it's caused by witnessing one of the cult rituals. If the PCs have already encountered at least two of the cults, and are aware of their respective gods, the god standing before them at the ritual may appear to the insane investigator as one of the other gods. So, while the other Investigators are looking at - for example - the Bloated Woman, the insane investigator is seeing the Sand Bat. And perhaps the Sand Bat turns and changes into the Howler in Darkness; and then the Black Pharaoh.

Another option is to scatter enough clues throughout the campaign that the players begin to piece everything together. This was the route I opted for when I ran Masks. I actually can't remember if the players ever realised that the different gods were all Nyarlathotep, but they certainly realised that a single shadowy presence stood behind everything that was happening, which is the main point of the campaign anyway.

[Lloyd Dupont]

Godam handwritten notes! 😒

In the America chapter there are a few handwritten note left by Jackson Elias and .. I cant read them!
Ok my eyesight is not that good.. but glasses do not help nearly enough 😕 

They are both using spidery small letters and blurry...

Edited April 25, 2021 by Lloyd Dupont

[EricW]

On 4/25/2021 at 1:31 PM, Lloyd Dupont said:

Godam handwritten notes! 😒

In the America chapter there are a few handwritten note left by Jackson Elias and .. I cant read them!
Ok my eyesight is not that good.. but glasses do not help nearly enough 😕 

They are both using spidery small letters and blurry...

Make sure you are trying to read from the game book, and not the other one

😉

[Lloyd Dupont]

I tried both the handouts, the game books, and the pdf... 😕 

[Mike M]

The plain handout texts are within the download pack for Masks - if you purchased it from Chaosium, DriveThru, or Bits & Mortar. 

[Lloyd Dupont]

Oh really?
I am pretty sure I found all the America handout and didn't see duplicate... although, to e fair, didn't read them, just quickly selected them from handout numbers... so maybe...