Binding a Spirit of the Recently Deceased

[Ryan Kent]

Had this come up in a session.  I allowed it under the MGF Rule of Cool, but said there was no guarantee it would ever work again.  The initiate of Waha had Discorporation and was discorporate and engaged in spirit combat with a tusk-rider.  Just as he brought the tusk-rider to 0 MP, the tusk-rider died in combat.  The initiate then wanted to bind the tusk-rider's ghost, now freed from his corporeal form, using Spirit Binding to put it into a MP storing crystal. Is this possible?

Edited January 29, 2022 by Scotty
Title changed to correct word

[soltakss]

Yes

[Ryan Kent]

23 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

If he had a Command, Control, Dominate or Create Ghost, I would say yes. Without those the Rule of Cool is the only reason. 

What about Spirit Binding?

[Ryan Kent]

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

Not a spell I am aware of. If you mean a shamanic ability, then yes. There is Spirit Binding Enchantment, but that just creates a matrix. One would still need to get the spirit into it somehow.

Spirit Binding (RQG:pg. 265):

Spirit Binding
1 Point
Ranged, Permanent, Passive
This spell is used to bind spirits into familiars or magical
objects: see the Binding Enchantment spell on page 249
and Binding Spirits into Animals on page 250 for more
information. Binding spirits into familiars demands the use
of special cult-bred animals described in the Spirits chapter.
Magical objects for holding spirits can be made using the
Binding Enchantment ritual (page 249), others can be
obtained from a temple or while adventuring.

[HreshtIronBorne]

Spirit Binding
1 Point
Ranged, Instant
This spell is used to bind spirits into familiars or magical objects: see the Binding Enchantment spell (RuneQuest, page 249) and Binding Spirits into Animals (RuneQuest, page 250) for more information. Binding spirits into familiars demands the use of special cult-bred animals. Magical objects for holding spirits can be made using the Binding Enchantment ritual (page 110), others can be obtained from a temple or while adventuring. The death of the binder frees the spirit, even if the binder is immediately revived through divine intervention or other methods.

 

This is the full text of the spell from RBoM pg. 121. 

 

It looks to me like it would allow the caster to try and put the fresh "ghost" into a crystal if there were an empty one available. It just says you need a suitable Binding, it doesn't matter what kind. 

 

My only question would be what the procedure is? Is it just POW vs POW? Do you need to make it visible unless it is attacking? Can a shaman just snap up spirits he sees randomly with a 1 point spell and some crystals? 

[Ryan Kent]

1 hour ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

My only question would be what the procedure is? Is it just POW vs POW? Do you need to make it visible unless it is attacking? Can a shaman just snap up spirits he sees randomly with a 1 point spell and some crystals? 

I am wondering about this as well. I suspect the intent is that you must defeat the spirit in spirit combat before binding it.

[Ryan Kent]

So I checked out the Well of Daliath entry on the Spirit Binding spell in the RBoM and it indicated that with Spirit binding, as opposed to Control (Spirit) you don't need to first defeat the spirit in spirit combat to bind it.  You merely have to cast the Spirit binding spell and then win a POW vs. POW roll to force it into a crystal or an object prepared with Binding Enchantment.  

[HreshtIronBorne]

1 hour ago, Ryan Kent said:

So I checked out the Well of Daliath entry on the Spirit Binding spell in the RBoM and it indicated that with Spirit binding, as opposed to Control (Spirit) you don't need to first defeat the spirit in spirit combat to bind it.  You merely have to cast the Spirit binding spell and then win a POW vs. POW roll to force it into a crystal or an object prepared with Binding Enchantment.  

Well, fantastic! That makes it incredibly easy to get your crystals filled with spirits. Huzzah for regenerating mana batteries!

[Shiningbrow]

My answer - yes - and no.

Yas, clearly possible, and even inherently suggested.

No - For the simple reason that a ghost is a particular type of spirit which needs to be made. The spirit of a recently dead person is not automatically a "ghost". It's merely an non-corporeal spirit.

[Scotty]

16 hours ago, Ryan Kent said:

Had this come up in a session.  I allowed it under the MGF Rule of Cool, but said there was no guarantee it would ever work again.  The initiate of Waha had Discorporation and was discorporate and engaged in spirit combat with a tusk-rider.  Just as he brought the tusk-rider to 0 MP, the tusk-rider died in combat.  The initiate then wanted to bind the tusk-rider's ghost, now freed from his corporeal form, using Spirit Binding to put it into a MP storing crystal. Is this possible?

Yes. Great use of MGF. Otherwise they'd need Spirit Binding (RQG page 249). 

12 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

My only question would be what the procedure is? Is it just POW vs POW?

Yes

12 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Do you need to make it visible unless it is attacking?

You need to have some way of seeing it. So in Ryan's case, the adventurer was already in spirit combat

12 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Can a shaman just snap up spirits he sees randomly with a 1 point spell and some crystals? 

Yes. Shaman are the masters of spirits.

11 hours ago, Ryan Kent said:

I am wondering about this as well. I suspect the intent is that you must defeat the spirit in spirit combat before binding it.

No.

9 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Well, fantastic! That makes it incredibly easy to get your crystals filled with spirits. Huzzah for regenerating mana batteries!

In the Core Rules, Spirit Binding is only available to Daka Fal, Seven Mothers and Odayla (as an associate cult of Daka Fal).

5 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

No - For the simple reason that a ghost is a particular type of spirit which needs to be made. The spirit of a recently dead person is not automatically a "ghost". It's merely an non-corporeal spirit.

If it's the body has been killed, the body and soul are now separate so it's a spirit. There is a 7 day window, where you can heal the body and try to reunite the two into a now living corporeal being. A ghost is specifically a spirit that has been tied to a place or object and prevented from entering the path to the afterlife.