Halfbird Quest – ions

[mfbrandi]

10 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

The PC with the Halfbird's eye will be looking into another plane, will need a patch over that eye for sure.

Sounds a bit Corum. Just needs the claw of the Halfbird to do a bit of summoning?

[Erol of Backford]

25 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

Corum

What's that, link? Thank you.

[jajagappa]

11 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Wait a minute, isn't Androgeus the mother of Yellow Bear?

Unless she was its father? 

 

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

What's that, link? Thank you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corum_Jhaelen_Irsei

A character by Michael Moorcock, had his own BRP game for a while. Non-Gloranthan.

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

What's that, link?

Sorry AFK. Just as Jörg said.

The thing about such gifts is that the original owner may someday reclaim them. When you heal the Halfbird, the eye will pop right out of the PC’s face and go “home”, right? (Principle of the conservation of magical items or something.)

Spoiler

And Haberfield’s Arioch definitely looks Gloranthan:

[Erol of Backford]

On 11/2/2023 at 7:00 AM, jajagappa said:

Unless she was its father? 

I read mother so I'll stick with that.

On 11/2/2023 at 8:28 AM, mfbrandi said:

the eye will pop right out of the PC’s face and go “home”, right?

Well not really as the PC has given their eye to the Halfbrid to help heal it and to help both of them be bonded, kind of like apprentice bonding, giving a gift... of course one would question that isn't the PC the apprentice but the Halfbird becomes the PC's Allied Spirit and or Familiar?

It would be interesting either way.

On 11/2/2023 at 5:46 AM, mfbrandi said:

Sounds a bit Corum.

The first thing I thought of was the Eye and Hand of Vecna... why I recalled that instantly from when I was 13-14 means it must have been something that must have been very impactful in our game at the time!? What it was I don't know but from Stranger Things must be similar to them fighting a Demogorgon?

This could be really fun, especially if the PC's don't know what will happen.

http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/wondrous-items:eye-and-hand-of-vecna#:~:text=The Eye of Vecna and,artifact into the empty socket.

  

I just read what may have caused the trama when I was a child: Each time you cast a spell from the eye, there is a 5 percent chance that Vecna tears your soul from your body, devours it, and then takes control of the body like a puppet. If that happens, you become an NPC under the DM's control.

Edited September 26 by Erol of Backford

[metcalph]

16 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

I just read what may have caused the trama when I was a child: Each time you cast a spell from the eye, there is a 5 percent chance that Vecna tears your soul from your body, devours it, and then takes control of the body like a puppet.

Such a grisly fate can be avoided by using the eye as it was originally intended - by wearing Vecna's head. 

[jajagappa]

32 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

I read mother so I'll stick with that.

It's ambiguous of course! As the text in the Guide (and originally in WBRM) notes (p.642): "During the God Time, he mothered five children and fathered four, and managed to save thousands of mortals from Death. Her children are too many to name, but five are well-known: The Preserver, the Twisted Horse, Goldtooth, Wily Joker, and Yellow Bear. The agonies which they inflicted upon mortals since the Dawn are hideous and innumerable."

So, you might find some stories that say she fathered Yellow Bear or that he mothered Yellow Bear. Who was there in the God-time to say? Or remembers now? (And from a standpoint in 1600, does it matter? Unlikely.)

[Erol of Backford]

7 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Her children are too many to name, but five are well-known: The Preserver, the Twisted Horse, Goldtooth, Wily Joker, and Yellow Bear.

You are correct that in 1600 it doesn't matter but if they have the Halfbird's eye in there head and are an allied spirit of the Halfbird but were a grandchild of the Yellow Bear it would be like time traveling to see grandmother or something like that, wait it'd only be via the eye some like Facetime but with a eye so Eyetime?

Weird.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Erol of Backford

[mfbrandi]

56 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

So, you might find some stories that say she fathered Yellow Bear or that he mothered Yellow Bear.

If Androgeus is self-fertile, possibly both. Then everybody is happy, right? 😉

[Erol of Backford]

Again I'll stick with mother-bear... posted in another thread but if this is where Mr. Thumbless meets the Haldbird it may be related?

[Erol of Backford]

On 11/1/2023 at 6:40 PM, jajagappa said:

In keeping with classic tales, you'll need to recover 3 parts of the Halfbird's dead side, bring them together with the Halfbird, and then use the Heal Body and perhaps Regrow Limb spells to put him back together. The Eye of course is one of those parts - and there are sinister people who want it for their own purposes. Livers are often used to interpret omens, so perhaps the Liver is the 2nd part. The Halfbird's Foot, or perhaps the Wing? And who knows where they are... 

I was reading in the Jonstown Compendium #270,173 (Troll boxed set) that one of the items that they pulled up from Skyfall lake was a very large half a bird... curious if that isn't in fact the Halfbird? Would M Purple not have known what it was... or maybe he downplayed the catch/discovery? Maybe the Halfbird was moving between planes and as the Skyfall Lake is a location that permits ease of interplanar movement the Halfbird popped up there?

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

curious if that isn't in fact the Halfbird? Would M Purple not have known what it was... or maybe he downplayed the catch/discovery? Maybe the Halfbird was moving between planes and as the Skyfall Lake is a location that permits ease of interplanar movement the Halfbird popped up there?

The Halfbird might well have fallen out of the Otherworld there.

In my campaign, the PC's encountered the Halfbird at the Wild Temple - it was trying, without success, to get to the center of the great temple area. A couple of the PC's decided to aid it, which made for a short quest to get past several guardians (including ZZ). When they got to the center, they found the World Tree there (since they were partly in the Spirit World), and from there the Halfbird was able to begin climbing back up into the Otherworld.

But I have the feeling that the Halfbird comes and goes from the Otherworld, and when in the mundane world, it always needs help to hold up its one side if it is to move forward.

[Erol of Backford]

20 hours ago, jajagappa said:

But I have the feeling that the Halfbird comes and goes from the Otherworld, and when in the mundane world, it always needs help to hold up its one side if it is to move forward.

I think earlier in this thread you discussed healing the Halfbird. I liked that idea and would start the healing after obtaining its eye from Gringle. One of the PC's I've been developing is a werebear from near the Yellow Bear Hills. I will need to look but there was an article somewhere that had the Halfbird near or on the Yellowbear Hills. Possibly the werebear helps the Halfbird up a hill or something like in the article...

The Halfbird can show up in various places seemingly randomly for the PC's to interact with until its fully healed... then it may very well be able to be contacted easily by say a shaman?

[Erol of Backford]

Additionally reading the not about snakes appearing out of the ground at Cam's Well, it had me wondering where do we have examples of spirits taking on a physical form without possessing someone besides say elementals?

Can a spirit which is strong enough make or conjure its own body to inhabit?

How might a spirit summon a body for itself. 

Could snake spirits sudden appear and materialize from say sand (would be like an elemental), air or even nothing?

Also the Halfbird seems to be in both the spirit, hero or god plane as well as on Glorantha at the same time or nearly so transitioning between them both. What if it went through one of the hero plane portals? Would it be whole again or would one half resume normal form and the other disappear?

[jajagappa]

49 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

have examples of spirits taking on a physical form without possessing someone besides say elementals?

All nymphs: dryads, nereids, voughs, hags, oreads, etc.

Likely various demons.

50 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Can a spirit which is strong enough make or conjure its own body to inhabit?

Yes, as above.

51 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Could snake spirits sudden appear and materialize from say sand (would be like an elemental), air or even nothing?

Most are materializing from an element or a place. Demons might be a special case, but even then I'd say there was some element, form, or power Rune involved.

52 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Also the Halfbird seems to be in both the spirit, hero or god plane as well as on Glorantha at the same time or nearly so transitioning between them both.

Yes, always at the boundary, part dead/Otherworld, part alive/mundane world.

53 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

What if it went through one of the hero plane portals? Would it be whole again or would one half resume normal form and the other disappear?

I doubt it would be whole again in that manner. I think it comes and goes between the worlds, but always physically in the half-state. I think you need to bring it and some number of missing parts (the eye obviously being one) together at the right place where the two worlds converge. Then it might be made whole again but must choose between the immortal, unchanging world or the mortal, changing world. (And likely whatever caused it to be halfway likely will try to intervene to keep it that way - my personal guess is that Androgeus is the cause.)

[davecake]

On 9/28/2024 at 3:28 AM, Erol of Backford said:

it had me wondering where do we have examples of spirits taking on a physical form without possessing someone besides say elementals?

Start with the entire Embodied Spirits section of the Bestiary, because that is literally what Embodied Spirits means. Though that includes both elementals, and a couple of things that appear to have permanent bodies but are native to the Underworld like Hell Hounds and the Black Horses. Most of the creatures in the Guardian Spirits section, and some other spirits like Demons and Nyctalopes. 

And forming a body is among the standard spirit powers listed in the spirit chapter - more than one, actually, as Elemental Form and Solid Form are listed separately. We have lots of examples. 

On 9/28/2024 at 3:28 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Can a spirit which is strong enough make or conjure its own body to inhabit?

Not necessarily, but as I said - it is among the standard spirit powers, so it's not uncommon. Some spirits essentially create bodies when they travel from the Otherworld (eg the Black Horses leaving hell), but it usually takes power (probably why it is difficult to create such portals). Returning from the dead other than via the Resurrection spell (which does not create a new body, but revives the old one) is essentially the same sort of magic, IMO - it is much more difficult than Resurrection because it includes creating the body. Of course, any hero quester who has voluntarily entered the Underworld without dying and returned has done this too, and those who have truly died first do not seem to be able to leave the underworld easily, at least the first time, hence the need for powerful magic like a Lightbringers Quest to retrieve them. 

Its interesting to consider the concept of a 'kaelith' from the Xeotam dialogues - that says that someone who voluntarily enters the Underworld and returns, thus creating their own body again, is a sort of minor god called a kaelith, and typically gains the powers of changing their form (into 'almost anything else') and giving up their physical form (becoming a discorporate spirit). Jonas, Harmast, Talor and Arkat are said to be this kind of being. This does not seem to be the case with every heroquest that enters into, and then returns from, the Underworld, but it will be interesting to see if this concept makes it into the hero questing rules. I tend to think the Baths of Nelat is similar, though not to do with the Underworld - your body is dissolved, you must create it anew. 

I would tend to think the shamans Self-Resurrection ability is more like the hero quest power than the Resurrect spell, though somewhere between them. 

[Erol of Backford]

17 hours ago, davecake said:

Though that includes both elementals, and a couple of things that appear to have permanent bodies but are native to the Underworld like Hell Hounds and the Black Horses.

I suppose I didn't think it through... dream dragons, Black Growler, etc.

17 hours ago, davecake said:

IMO - it is much more difficult than Resurrection because it includes creating the body. Of course, any hero quester who has voluntarily entered the Underworld without dying and returned has done this too

It's almost logical... walking through the gates of Hell and then walking back out makes sense but would anyone physically entering hell, who then dies(?) and comes back out of Hell not suffer resurrection sickness or does time sort of stop in Hell and the body not change at all from when they entered besides maybe being attacked and eaten, of course.

[davecake]

On 10/3/2024 at 6:36 AM, Erol of Backford said:

It's almost logical... walking through the gates of Hell and then walking back out makes sense but would anyone physically entering hell, who then dies(?) and comes back out of Hell not suffer resurrection sickness or does time sort of stop in Hell and the body not change at all from when they entered besides maybe being attacked and eaten, of course.

If they enter the underworld physically, but then die again inside Hell, they usually just get kicked out of the hero quest, possibly with unpleasant consequences such as grave injuries. For those rare beings who truly die in hell and remain there, but then somehow leave (Yanafals Tarnils, for example, died in hell while seeking the Red Goddess (sacrificed himself, even) but was then resurrected) they are reborn, their body recreated. Or they may only partially fix themselves, and suffer wounds that trouble them thereafter. 

I don't think they suffer from resurrection sickness, which is the result of their body and soul being separated and Death slowly making that separation stronger and more permanent. But they might suffer something similar or worse, including unhealable wounds.