heroquesting, languages, gaining god's skill, some idea

[French Desperate WindChild]

thinking about an issue I m facing:

my orlanthi "hero" goes in heroquest, but does'nt speak well storm speech

but... now in the hero plane, he is not anymore himself :  he is a merge of the god he is identified (or other subtle word) and himself.

and this god of course knows storm speach.

 

then ... what about this issue :

1) should heroes have as requirement to know the same language than their god ? should this skill be used (among others) to determine how the character is identified as the wished god ?

2) let's say the heroquest ends after some deeds, back to the mundane world, shouldn't the hero learn a part of this god's identification skills ? I m not talking about "powers" more about identity

 

my temporary answers, ( I would be interested by your own perspective) :

 

1) of course yes : there is a "preparation time" so depending on what are the "stations" of the quest, you need to know some skills (what level, I don't know) : 

you will hunt ? --> need some track or animal lore or the identified god weapons  skills. If not, you may acces the heroworld, but maybe not as the hunter god 

you will speak ? --> need to know the language, if your god is a good speaker, you need a good skill, or you may be considererd as another god, lesser than what you expect, or a stranger god visiting ... etc

 

2) so you are now yourself, you "divorced" your god. but you may be less yourself and more your god (well... your depending on your identification, maybe you "were" a chaotic god, after some fumble during identification )

What I think is to roll an opposition test between  pc's INT and pc's POW

depending on the result the pc may choose one two, three "identification" skills and get +10% (identification of the god joined, who can be different than the expected god at the beginning )

if INT wins, you are too much conscious of yourself, the god divorce is very clear. You are ONE

if POW wins, you had a "symbiotic" relationship with the otherworld, with the god, and are "open" to keep something. You are ALL

 

this process may explain why Heroes become more and more like their gods and lose their mundane free will

 

but I m not sure I understand well all the mechanism (from a gloranthan perspective) of heroquesting so I may be in contradiction with it ?

 

[JRE]

I would say it depends on how deep the heroquest is, how formulaic you are playing it, and how much supporting cast you have. This is all open to interpretation, and this is my own.

If this is a Sacred Time event with your community, the people you interact with will all be part of the community, so you may well manage with Thelayan, as it is a common ground among all of you, including the opponents. They know what they should do and probably help you a bit, hint if you get stuck, etc. 

If you are doing it on your own, or a small group, then you will be interacting with pure hero plane personalities and they will be less tolerant of deviations, and it is likely you really need that stormspeech to understand Orlanth Rex, unlike your chieftain that you would probably understand all right in the example above. Some interpretations is that the missing roles are filled not by pure myth entities, but questers from other places and times, so language and expectations of the role may differ. Another reason why it is easier to have all main roles filled, just in case. 

As you go deeper, there is more of the Hero plane and less of your chieftain, so once again knowing stormspeech becomes more important.

În the case of community it is likely you, just in case, learn the stormspeech (or whatever language applies) words of your role by rote, till you are good enough to understand them and speak them better, and that is another reason why stepping outside of the boundaries of myth is so risky, because you may lack the right words, and the right language. 

I would interpret that if you are close to the role you take, such as an Issaries trader taking the role of Issaries, divine inspiration may guide you in the right direction, even if you get stuck, as the player may not be as close to the role as the character, but that should be used sparingly. 

I always play heroquests as almost normal play, so yes, you better be good at fighting if you will embody Humakt, or you may end up playing a different role, and you will always change to be closer to your role. Which opens the question to who takes the role of Vadrus, or (shudder) Ragnaglar. If you are not satisfactory, the Hero plane will fill up the missing role, and that can mean a tougher or easier quest, usually easier if you are doing a well known quest, and tougher in unknown ground. Usually the consequences are quite easy to fathom and the problem is how much change, abilities or powers to add. This mechanistic details is why people are waiting anxiously for official HQ rules. We have no RQ:G mechanism yet, though there were some systems in HQ and HW. Meanwhile I think most veterans have been improvising for years, so you will get a lot of different replies. 

Just think of an Orlanth Rex quester that is found to be unsuitable to be leader and is forced to act as a weaponthane. If the quest Rex is someone else from the clan, you have already a potential leadership conflict and a character change for both. If you get an impersonal Rex, or a foreigner Rex, then you better follow the myth right, or any deviation may mean failure. However, the benefit (except for the failed Rex) would be higher in case of success, although with unintended consequences. 

So the acting Rex, is succesful, will come out a better leader, though the details will vary.

[soltakss]

13 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

1) should heroes have as requirement to know the same language than their god ? should this skill be used (among others) to determine how the character is identified as the wished god ?

No, I don't think that Heroes have to know the same language as their god, particularly.

Orlanth spoke Stormspeech, some Orlanthi learn Stormspeech, but not all. Some HeroQuestors play the role of Orlanth, but are a bad fit, as they are not Orlanthi, so won't speak Stormspeech.

13 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

2) let's say the heroquest ends after some deeds, back to the mundane world, shouldn't the hero learn a part of this god's identification skills ? I m not talking about "powers" more about identity

Yes, sure. One of the rewards of a HeroQuest might be the ability to speak Stormspeech, because Orlanth has left his mark on you.

13 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

this process may explain why Heroes become more and more like their gods and lose their mundane free will

Yes, that is a good way of looking at it.

13 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

but I m not sure I understand well all the mechanism (from a gloranthan perspective) of heroquesting so I may be in contradiction with it ?

No, I think it is fine.

In my HeroQuesting, HeroQuestors can use skills they don't have, simply because the deity had the skill (Heroic Knowledge). They can pick up some of the skill after the HeroQuest, as a residual effect, so they magically learn the skill.

This sems a similar process.

 

[HreshtIronBorne]

16 minutes ago, soltakss said:

In my HeroQuesting, HeroQuestors can use skills they don't have, simply because the deity had the skill (Heroic Knowledge). They can pick up some of the skill after the HeroQuest, as a residual effect, so they magically learn the skill.

Do they do this by using a Rune the God had or something else to embody whoever they are playing on the HeroQuest?

 

Sorry, should I buy these rules somewhere? :D

[soltakss]

5 minutes ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Do they do this by using a Rune the God had or something else to embody whoever they are playing on the HeroQuest?

You could do that, perhaps to see how much of a skill you had.

So, if you are an Orlanthi playing Storm Bull on a HeroQuest and did not have Sense Chaos, then you could use your Air, Beast and Death Runes to see how close to Storm Bull you can get. The better you do the higher your skill on the HeroQuest. You might be left with a proportion of that skill afterwards, or have the basic, or whatever.

To be honest, I am free and easy about that kind of thing.

8 minutes ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Sorry, should I buy these rules somewhere? 😄

I think you can buy them somewhere!

Only 24 copies to reach Gold, so every copy helps.

 

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

So, freebies? 

[Shiningbrow]

@French Desperate WindChild consider this question... What language did Orlanth use when trying to take his place in Yelm's Court? What language was used for the gods to talk to each other on the Hill of Gold? (Yelmalio, Orlanth, Zorak Zoran, etc etc)

[JRE]

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

@French Desperate WindChild consider this question... What language did Orlanth use when trying to take his place in Yelm's Court? What language was used for the gods to talk to each other on the Hill of Gold? (Yelmalio, Orlanth, Zorak Zoran, etc etc)

I would say it is subjective. In the Orlanthi version Yelm speaks Firespeech, and Orlanth Stormspeech, but they understand each other. As people usually ignore translators, it might be fun to have an expanded heroquest where Entekos translates Orlanth words to Yelm, and Issaries Yelm's words to Orlanth. I would expect in Solar versions Yelm does not speak, but his commands are automatically understood, while Orlanth speaks a barbarian gibberish. Who cares what such an upstart says?

I do not expect any dialogue in the Uz version of Hill of Gold, and the others will just have an Orlanth monologue and a Yelmalio/Elmal monologue.

Unlike some of the comments above, I believe the temples actually use language as a way to control heroquesting, as they control the teaching of those languages, including learning the right responses by rote for lay initiates, and deeper knowledge as you progress in the cult. I still remember (RQ3?) that Thelayan gave a small percentage of Stormspeech, probably what you learnt at the temple by extrapolating the ritual responses. And it explains how the pantheon languages do not drift, because you refresh them in the ceremonies. However I am not sure if the Orlanthi in Ralios speak the same Stormspeech as in Dragon Pass or Aggar, but the transplant of travellers like Arkat or Harmast have me almost convinced it is the same language, an echo of the Godplane. 

[French Desperate WindChild]

9 hours ago, soltakss said:

In my HeroQuesting, HeroQuestors can use skills they don't have, simply because the deity had the skill (Heroic Knowledge). They can pick up some of the skill after the HeroQuest, as a residual effect, so they magically learn the skill.

yes, so would I, the point then is : does this lack of skills is an issue to start (or go in) the heroquest / the station. That means you are clearly not the god you want ot be (at each station, it may be different) and need more effort (roll malus ?) to be (or to stay) recognized as the god you want to "play"

 

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

@French Desperate WindChild consider this question... What language did Orlanth use when trying to take his place in Yelm's Court? What language was used for the gods to talk to each other on the Hill of Gold? (Yelmalio, Orlanth, Zorak Zoran, etc etc)

 

Argh professor, very very good question.

 

But Eurmal gave me the answer :

there is another language, a common language, a root language, that only gods (maybe great spirits if they differ) can speek : divine language.

There is a requirement to know it: be a god.

this language is not a "real" language, it is a kind of auomatic translator :

when two gods meet and talk they know two things:

- what is the language used by the other (kind of accent)

- what the other is saying

a pc must become a god (apotheosis), to obtain this "power", heroquesting is not  enough

 

but of course, if Eurmal gave me a lie, I have no answer 😛

 

 

 

 

[soltakss]

On 2/3/2022 at 8:36 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

yes, so would I, the point then is : does this lack of skills is an issue to start (or go in) the heroquest / the station. That means you are clearly not the god you want ot be (at each station, it may be different) and need more effort (roll malus ?) to be (or to stay) recognized as the god you want to "play"

If you visit the God Plane and speak to the deity, you have to speak in a language the deity understands. If you speak to Yelm in anything other than Firespeech he will just ignore you.

However, if you are HeroQuesting and speak to normal people then they might be able to understand you.

A Yelmalian HeroQuesting as Yelm would probably only respond in Firespeech, because that is what Yelmalians are like. However, if you asked a Yelmalian HeroQuestor for help in TradeTalk, or your own language as you know that he is really Bob the Stablehand, then he will be able to understand and answer you.