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Hsunchen and Korgatsu terminology?


Garrik

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'Hsunchen' is a kralori term, right?

And probably 'Korgatsu' too?

Both made universal through the God Learners?

Are there other collective terms for the animal-people and their spirit tradition? If the Hsunchen languages are somehow connected, I think they would probably have their own words for these. Also, as there are and historically have been a lot of Hsunchen in western Genertela, do the Westerners and the Orlanthi have local terms for these?

There being a large population of Hsunchen in the mountains between Kralorela and the Wasteland/Pent, I can understand how the kraloreli word would become commonplace in eastern Genertela. But surely there is such a term/terms in the western Genertelan languages too.

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18 minutes ago, Garrik said:

Are there other collective terms for the animal-people and their spirit tradition?

There is Fiwan, a Pamaltelan term.

18 minutes ago, Garrik said:

Also, as there are and historically have been a lot of Hsunchen in western Genertela, do the Westerners and the Orlanthi have local terms for these?

Hykmi.  

 

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Ah, Hykimi of course! Thanks. 🙂

Then again at some point I got the impression that Hykim & Mikyh were God Learner stuff too, the names of dragons (or the same dragon). So Hykimi could substitute the Korgatsu tradition? But the same people/group, of course.

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19 minutes ago, Garrik said:

Then again at some point I got the impression that Hykim & Mikyh were God Learner stuff too, the names of dragons (or the same dragon). So Hykimi could substitute the Korgatsu tradition? But the same people/group, of course.

The God Learners rarely invented names from whole cloth - the names in their in their monomyth were taken from elsewhere.  So merely because Hykim appears in the monomyth does not preclude it from appearing earlier.

I don't think there is a Hykimi pantheon/tradition any more.  The Serpent Beast brotherhood who might have had common myths backed the wrong side in the Gbaji Wars and ended up destroyed.  The Fiwan are either too far south or under the protection of the Elf Empire.  That only leaves the Hsunchen in the Shan Shan.

 

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, metcalph said:

I don't think there is a Hykimi pantheon/tradition any more.  The Serpent Beast brotherhood who might have had common myths backed the wrong side in the Gbaji Wars and ended up destroyed.  The Fiwan are either too far south or under the protection of the Elf Empire.  That only leaves the Hsunchen in the Shan Shan.

So the Hsunchen of western Genertela are just the individual peoples/tribes, who could be named Hykimi by others, but who really refer to themselves as specific animal peoples/tribes.

Then again the White Bear Empire in Fronela - as far as it encompasses all the northern tribes and not just the Rathori - seems to gather Hsunchen peoples/tribes of different animals together. And there are hints of snake dancer shamans among them. So maybe with enough soul-searching they can find their common ancestry, power and unity again.

Maybe that's the stuff of the Hero Wars.

Edited by Garrik
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The white bear god is bound to a certain Harrek, so it is unlikely the Rathori can rebuild the White bear empire. Hard to build a force when you sleep the dark season. and probably part of the storm season as well. Other animal people alliances, faced with snow trolls, the kingdom of War and Loskalm, seem likely. Jonatela they are used to, so less of a problem.

The comments about Uncoling magical power, expressed in opposition to Loskalm's, are to me like Chekhov's gun. It needs to be used before the story ends. 

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Just because the organization for the cooperation of the shamans of various beast totem groups in Ralios was disbanded doesn't necessarily change the myths that define the shamanic paths. Theyalan conversion removed quite a few groups from the Hsunchen spectrum, placing them in Tanisoran Horali caste or Safelstran urban societies, and God Learner incursions may have indeed destroyed some paths, but mainly in Ralios. Fronelan God Learners spread along the convenient path all the way to Eastpoint, but no further due to the Carmanian presence beyond. North of the Janube, how far did they interact with the Hykimi?

The loss of the God of Silver Feet hampered communication among the northern Fronelan Hykimi, but there appears to be a replacement allowing communication now. How else would the Kingdom of War coordinate its forces?

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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21 hours ago, metcalph said:

The Serpent Beast brotherhood who might have had common myths backed the wrong side in the Gbaji Wars and ended up destroyed. 

Noting that there remain Serpent Beast shamans amongst the Pralori, although unclear if this is a continuous tradition or a revival. 

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--

The Silver best-selling The Children of Hykim offers over 150 pages on Glorantha's shape-changing totemic animal people, the Hsunchen. "Magisterial ... highly recommended" - Nick Brooke. "An amazing labor of love" - Evan Franke, Exploring Glorantha. "A deep dive" - Joerg Baumgartner. "Excellent sourcebook, well-written and well-researched" - Niall Sullivan.

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23 hours ago, Garrik said:

Also, as there are and historically have been a lot of Hsunchen in western Genertela, do the Westerners and the Orlanthi have local terms for these?

I imagine Westerners may still call them Hykimi, and perhaps a few may even still refer to them as krjalki. But given the existence of the Martial Beast Societies, and the presence of the Ancient Beast Society in Safelster, there will be diverse names and opinions regarding the beast-peoples.

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--

The Silver best-selling The Children of Hykim offers over 150 pages on Glorantha's shape-changing totemic animal people, the Hsunchen. "Magisterial ... highly recommended" - Nick Brooke. "An amazing labor of love" - Evan Franke, Exploring Glorantha. "A deep dive" - Joerg Baumgartner. "Excellent sourcebook, well-written and well-researched" - Niall Sullivan.

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On 3/4/2022 at 4:21 PM, Joerg said:

Just because the organization for the cooperation of the shamans of various beast totem groups in Ralios was disbanded doesn't necessarily change the myths that define the shamanic paths.

This makes sense to me. They worship their primary great spirit, but are aware of the ones belonging to other Hsunchen peoples, and may even have ways to interact with them.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/4/2022 at 6:06 PM, soltakss said:

I would just use Hsunchen.

Why make up a term that means Hsunchen? It is just confusing for everyone.

 

This is a semantic question. But a semantic question within Genertela, not among us.

I'm perfectly fine with using the term Hsunchen when we speak about, well, the Hsunchen. But if the word is Kralori, I think it's plausible to look after Western terms, within Genertela.

Edited by Garrik
'fine in' -> 'fine with'
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