Does Chaos Have an Answer to Storm Bull Beserkers?

[Jeff]

7 hours ago, JRE said:

Where do you get that lust is a perversion of love? Lust is quite separate from love, and for most Gloranthan cultures, an expression of life, to be enjoyed and shared. Forcing your lust on others is perverse, and it may open the way to chaos, but it is the forcing, not the lust, which is to blame.

After all, Uleria is probably the only member of the Celestial Court that survived.

That has nothing to do with berserk chaotics, but Glorantha is quite explicit in enjoying shared lust. 

You can create your chaotic spirit cult with berserk, but it will be impossible to get the powerful Storm Bull package (Berserk, Shield, Face Chaos, Impede Chaos, and if at need Earthpower and Cure Chaos Wound). Half of these comes from associates, and that is not a chaotic thing.

I think that is why Ralzakark goes with humakti broos. They do not need to be illuminated, and with enough of them, you can get powerful magic. And Sword Trance more that compensates for Impede chaos and berserk.

Agreed. And it is worth keeping in mind who Storm Bull views HIS Chaotic adversaries are: All of Them. There's not specific Chaos deity that he particularly singles out - he fights them all with equal vigor. They are all the same thing - evil that threatens existence itself.

Now there are plenty of Chaos cults that particularly hate Storm Bull (like Krarsht), but that is a different matter. 

[Darius West]

On 3/31/2022 at 8:53 PM, EricW said:

I've read several contradictory write-ups of Urain, is this a canon source of chaos berserkers? Or is there another chaotic god who gives followers the power to stand toe to toe with the likes of Zorak Zoran and Storm Bull? 

Honestly, berserking is not all its cracked up to be.  Attack heavy, defense light, and thoughtless offensives are no great problem to a cunning enemy.

I have seen a berserk Stormbull minotaur utterly die to a single gorp for want of any means to hurt it, as gorps can only be destroyed by fire or magic and the minotaur had neither.

And how does a berserk Stormbull cope when the shortest distance between them and their enemy is thru a trap?

Berserkers are tough but they are operating largely on autopilot.  Dumb autopilot. Stupidity isn't strength.

Now if Orlanth could conquer Stormbull with nothing but a rope and a stick, how much easier will it be for Chaos, who will literally stoop to any depths of rat cunning?

As for chaos organizations who can stand up to Stormbull, the Lunar Empire has it covered nicely.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Darius West

[EricW]

On 4/2/2022 at 10:38 PM, Darius West said:

Honestly, berserking is not all its cracked up to be.  Attack heavy, defense light, and thoughtless offensives are no great problem to a cunning enemy.

I have seen a berserk Stormbull minotaur utterly die to a single gorp for want of any means to hurt it, as gorps can only be destroyed by fire or magic and the minotaur had neither.

And how does a berserk Stormbull cope when the shortest distance between them and their enemy is thru a trap?

Berserkers are tough but they are operating largely on autopilot.  Dumb autopilot. Stupidity isn't strength.

Now if Orlanth could conquer Stormbull with nothing but a rope and a stick, how much easier will it be for Chaos, who will literally stoop to any depths of rat cunning?

As for chaos organizations who can stand up to Stormbull, the Lunar Empire has it covered nicely.

I agree berserking isn’t an ideal choice in terms of game mechanics , but given all the descriptions of rampaging chaos armies in the greater darkness it seems odd chaos doesn’t have access to at least one divine battle frenzy spell.

There was a non canon description of Urain which made a case I liked, that other religions berserk fury had a purpose, while for chaos berserk fury was the purpose. So a chaotic mockery of Storm Bull’s righteous wrath.

 

[svensson]

@EricW

Why would Chaos need a buff against Storm Bullers? They already have advantages enough, what with all the weird powers they get from Chaos Features and many attacks they have that can't be defended against.

IIRC, Cacodaemon may have the Berserk Rune spell and Fanaticism can be learned by anyone who can find a teacher.

As for the 'ravenous horde of Chaos', of course the religions of Order are going to perceive Chaos as 'ravenous'. Chaos' very nature corrupts, defiles, or mutates everything it touches. You don't need a berserker spell for that.

[Darius West]

12 hours ago, EricW said:

I agree berserking isn’t an ideal choice in terms of game mechanics , but given all the descriptions of rampaging chaos armies in the greater darkness it seems odd chaos doesn’t have access to at least one divine battle frenzy spell.

There was a non canon description of Urain which made a case I liked, that other religions berserk fury had a purpose, while for chaos berserk fury was the purpose. So a chaotic mockery of Storm Bull’s righteous wrath.

I strongly suspect that all the chaos deities who used berserk rage were destroyed during the Gods War.  Let's face facts, Stormbull himself nearly died twice in his fight with Wakboth but called upon the Earth (Eiritha) to save him once, and the cosmos to save him the second time with the Block.  Berserkers tend to be disposable heroes.  As to a mockery of Storm Bull's righteous wrath, nope, Stormbull doesn't tolerate chaos, and how much less does he tolerate chaos that mocks him?  At the End of the God's War, most chaos deities were driven to the margins, often in a broken form, and those who chose active confrontation had already died with Wakboth and Kajaboor's hordes.  The things that remain go disguised (Cacodemon, Krjalk), or slither in dark hidden places (Primal Chaos, Krarsht), or are spiritually broken (Nysalor, Thanatar, Vivamort), or are racial deities who exist as long as their race exists (Thed, Bagog), or are just ubiquitous (Time (Kajaboor), Malia).

[svensson]

To build on @Darius West point,

Berserkers are an expression of the rage that simple-hearted people feel against something that destroys for no reason. It's a manifestation of Urox's, Zorak Zoran's and Maran Gor's fury at the corruption spread by Chaos, the defilement of the innocent.

Obviously, this doesn't make these gods happy-fun people most of the time. Rage is an emotion that requires feeding, energy, commitment. And because of that commitment, there are few spaces left in their souls for more positive emotions. Compassion doesn't spark empathy in them. It sparks a need for vengeance.

And the sad thing is these gods are in many ways mirror images of the Chaos they hate. There will ALWAYS be more Chaos; the 'frontiers' of Glorantha will NEVER be secure. And in their never-ending quest for things can never have, they bring the very disorder, disharmony, and discontentment that enraged them in the first place.

[French Desperate WindChild]

23 hours ago, svensson said:

There will ALWAYS be more Chaos; the 'frontiers' of Glorantha will NEVER be secure

keep faith, glorantha will be secure, chaos will be destroyed

Trust Eurmal, not the one you know, but the true one