Question for the lucky handful with the book

[Nightshade]

How _does_ the optional rule of using POW/magic points as luck points work?

[Atgxtg]

How _does_ the optional rule of using POW/magic points as luck points work?

I think Jason said there were 3 different options. I also thing everyone with the book is either busy ready or preparing for the holidays.

[Nightshade]

I think Jason said there were 3 different options. I also thing everyone with the book is either busy ready or preparing for the holidays.

Well, I could have hope.

[CruelDespot]

My question is this: Does the magic system more resemble CoC/Stormbringer, or is each spell a skill, like in Magic World or Runequest?

[Enpeze]

My question is this: Does the magic system more resemble CoC/Stormbringer, or is each spell a skill, like in Magic World or Runequest?

Jason said that he used the magic system from WoW where each spell is a skill AND a second system with the sorcery from SB5 (not the demon summoning from SB5, just the spells)

[camazotz]

There's a basic magic system, which resembles (to me) the spirit magic options in earlier RQs. Then there's the Sorcery, which looks like it stems from RQ sorcery and SB65 sorcery. The latter is a spell based, with no chance of failure by skill, and the former is skill-based.

[Nightshade]

Thought I'd give this a bump as I still need to know. Can one of those nice folks with the 0 Edition give a summary of the magic-points-as-luck/fate points options?

[SDLeary]

Thought I'd give this a bump as I still need to know. Can one of those nice folks with the 0 Edition give a summary of the magic-points-as-luck/fate points options?

Looks like 5 PP to re-roll (but you cannot re-roll a re-roll);

5 PP to ignore a skill and use your Luck roll instead at a difficulty of Difficult (skills only, not resistance or characteristic rolls);

Ignoring damage from a single attack at the cost of 3 PP /point.

Thats from a quick skim... I'm still reading it, and there are some indexing issues, so the full explanation might take a bit.

SDLeary

[Sunwolfe]

Greetings, Nightshade:

I’ll give it a go, though I’m sure others who have a better handle on this will chime in and more accurately direct you, as I don't doubt there's more to it than I've been able to surmise--it always seems to be that way :ohwell:.

That being said…:happy:

The POW characteristic can influence luck rolls as the formula for the luck roll is POW x 5. It stands to reason that the higher the POW a character has, the better the luck roll...I don't see an expenditure of power points as part of that formula though. If it is, I've overlooked it.

In relation to Fate Points a character can use power points to influence the fate of a character in two ways according to the book. He/she or it, “…can spend five power points to re-roll any percentile dice when the results are unfavorable” but no re-rolling the ''re-roll'' and no xp check for it either.

The second way is an expenditure of, ''…five power points to ignore a skill and trust fate, using your Luck roll as if it were Difficult to determine the chance of success or failure, rather than the relevant skill.'' It’s for skills only—not for a resistance or characteristic roll and no good for gaining xp or POW increases either.

An expenditure of three power points per point of damage allows a character to, ''…ignore [said] damage…from a single attack…''

The ''basic system'' can be expanded at GM desire and discretion in various ways: to shift die rolls more favorably, inflict more damage to an opponent, to add more depth to a character’s past: ''you suddenly remember an old tale your grand-father told you as a child that seems key to unlocking the mystery of…'', etc. etc.

Though the box containing the rule on page 176 of the 0-Edition does not flag it as optional (as other optionals are) the text describes it as such and that it is a new rule not previously featured in any ''previous editions of the Basic Roleplaying system.''

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Sunwolfe

[Nightshade]

Thanks, gents. That's considerable help, as I'm planning to use something like it in an upcoming campaign, and figured there was no reason to reinvent the wheel.

[frogspawner]

Thanks, gents. That's considerable help, as I'm planning to use something like it in an upcoming campaign, and figured there was no reason to reinvent the wheel.

Unless the wheel has rough corners on it, like I think this one does. E.g. Expend 3 PP to avoid all damage from an attack, automatically? Can NPCs use that too? Does it have to be personal power, or can it come from storage devices, bound spirits, or what-have-you? And why is it cheaper than the other uses? (Which, incidentally, I don't like nearly so much!)

[Atgxtg]

Does it have to be personal power, or can it come from storage devices, bound spirits, or what-have-you? And why is it cheaper than the other uses? (Which, incidentally, I don't like nearly so much!)

Now that is a very good point. I think the idea of using POW was to limit it. Characters would have to choose between luck or magic. But POW storing devices opens up a whole 55 gallon can of worms.

I'd prefer Luck Points, and keeping them separate. The maybe allow some items that give more luck points, such as a rabbit's foot or horseshoe.

[SDLeary]

Unless the wheel has rough corners on it, like I think this one does. E.g. Expend 3 PP to avoid all damage from an attack, automatically? Can NPCs use that too? Does it have to be personal power, or can it come from storage devices, bound spirits, or what-have-you? And why is it cheaper than the other uses? (Which, incidentally, I don't like nearly so much!)

Actually, going back to it, its a Soak ability. 3 PP gives you the ability to soak up one point of damage. Thus, to soak up three points of damage, you would need to expend 9 PP, and so on. Its written to imply that only the characters person PP should be used, but does not state that explicitly (the term used is their).

[Nightshade]

Unless the wheel has rough corners on it, like I think this one does. E.g. Expend 3 PP to avoid all damage from an attack, automatically? Can NPCs use that too? Does it have to be personal power, or can it come from storage devices, bound spirits, or what-have-you? And why is it cheaper than the other uses? (Which, incidentally, I don't like nearly so much!)

I don't see a big deal with it, honestly. I don't have a problem with it being automatic, and just assumed it'd have to come from your personal stock. As to it being cheaper--honestly, its the single most legitimate use, since many versions of BRP can be sudden death, and that's what I want to buffer with it: the opening round of battle with the critical hit from the longbow arrow in the head problem. The other uses can allow some avoidance of anticlimax that's probably a virtue too, but buffering sudden random death is what I want it for.

As for the usage by NPCs, I'd say that's probably better handled on a campaign by campaign basis than having it be hardwired anyway. I'd probably use it for major NPCs and not others, myself.

[Nightshade]

Actually, going back to it, its a Soak ability. 3 PP gives you the ability to soak up one point of damage. Thus, to soak up three points of damage, you would need to expend 9 PP, and so on. Its written to imply that only the characters person PP should be used, but does not state that explicitly (the term used is their).

1 _point_? That's pretty useless, honestly; it might occasionally be the difference, but its way underpowered compared to the reroll at that point.

[SDLeary]

1 _point_? That's pretty useless, honestly; it might occasionally be the difference, but its way underpowered compared to the reroll at that point.

I don't know.. if you are playing with Hit Locations, this can be the difference between holding onto your weapon or not. Or, if over double has been reached in a location, the difference between going unconscious or not (trunk locations). Not to mention that it could prevent bleeding.

SDLeary

[Rurik]

1 _point_? That's pretty useless, honestly; it might occasionally be the difference, but its way underpowered compared to the reroll at that point.

In the Interest of being Fair and Balanced I am going to agree with Nightshade on this one.

Though this is automagic (forcing something with a skill of 95% to re-roll is not) it becomes severely limited in use.

Take a Dragon for example, even with 18PP you can only reduce damage by 6, which is pretty much going to be useless. And when fighting dragons is when you want a mechanic like this to work.

[Atgxtg]

Argh. Someone emailed me a list of the uses and I can't find it!

I recall that there were a few other uses, such as altering the success level of an attack. I think there was a option to turn a success into a failure, and that it was usually cheaper than buying off damage point by point. I think it was 7 PP.

[SDLeary]

Argh. Someone emailed me a list of the uses and I can't find it!

I recall that there were a few other uses, such as altering the success level of an attack. I think there was a option to turn a success into a failure, and that it was usually cheaper than buying off damage point by point. I think it was 7 PP.

That is listed as an expansion to the basic listed before. 6 PP is the cost.

SDLeary

[Rurik]

Can one buy down a greater success at a greater cost?

[SDLeary]

In the Interest of being Fair and Balanced I am going to agree with Nightshade on this one.

Though this is automagic (forcing something with a skill of 95% to re-roll is not) it becomes severely limited in use.

Take a Dragon for example, even with 18PP you can only reduce damage by 6, which is pretty much going to be useless. And when fighting dragons is when you want a mechanic like this to work.

It is going to be limited in the above situation. But then, someone foolishly went after a Dragon without proper prep (proper armor, magical protection, etc). If the character did go in prepared, and had a bad string of luck, then perhaps one of the first two options would be better. Re-roll of his last defensive maneuver, or not using his defense and using his Luck roll instead. Both listed as 5 point options.

As for the damage soak, you want this to work or be an option whenever your character will die, or when they will fall unconscious and bleed to death, or be captured with no way out. Don't limit the utility to the extreme.

I like this variability. Another suggestion to the GM is to allow the player to spend a total number of PP equal to the entire damage range of the weapon to inflict maximum damage. A very good option in a heroic game where the setting precludes everyone having magic.

None of these options are set in stone. The first three are "...ways power points can affect game play other than a power source", and other examples are also given. This is a fairly open system to the GM.

SDLeary

[SDLeary]

Can one buy down a greater success at a greater cost?

"...and can shift the result by as many categories as you have power points to spend."

No... fairly open.

Again, I think the intention of this is for heroic games where not everyone has access to magic. Better in many regards than the Ki powers from LoN for that kind of setting.

SDLeary

[frogspawner]

An expenditure of three power points per point of damage allows a character to, ''…ignore [said] damage…from a single attack…''

Oops, I missed the "per point of damage" before. OK, so it's not super-powerful like I thought but instead it's insipid. And, without a roll involved, where's the excitement? It's just a bit too calculated, not Heroic. And all the other ways to spend PP makes it too complicated.

Where would this lead? One side spending points to re-roll better hits and increase damage, the other side spending points to downgrade those hits and then (maybe) negate some damage too. So, everyone's out of PP by the second round - and then the real fight can start!?

[SDLeary]

Oops, I missed the "per point of damage" before. OK, so it's not super-powerful like I thought but instead it's insipid. And, without a roll involved, where's the excitement? It's just a bit too calculated, not Heroic. And all the other ways to spend PP makes it too complicated.

Where would this lead? One side spending points to re-roll better hits and increase damage, the other side spending points to downgrade those hits and then (maybe) negate some damage too. So, everyone's out of PP by the second round - and then the real fight can start!?

If the GM allows it. They can allow all, some, or none of this; or use this as a framework to roll their own options. Its all optional. What is listed are simply suggestions.

SDLeary

[Nightshade]

I don't know.. if you are playing with Hit Locations, this can be the difference between holding onto your weapon or not. Or, if over double has been reached in a location, the difference between going unconscious or not (trunk locations). Not to mention that it could prevent bleeding.

SDLeary

I've just seen too many cases where the sudden death results (usually impales) were enough over that most people just wouldn't have had enough personal magic points to make any difference here. It might matter in marginal cases, but we're talking about a maximum of somewhere between 4-6 points here, after all, and that's assuming the person has not needed to dip into his personal magic points for anything else beforehand.