Best Source For Lore After The Hero Wars?

[Deepest_Lore]

I'm relatively knew to Runequest and I've been going through the lore. I understand a lot of the lore has gotten tweaked over the years and is spread out over many books but what is the best source for what happens in Dragon Pass after Argrath becomes the Prince of Satar and drives the Lunars out? In the book The King of Sartar it gives dates into the 1700s and beyond.  Was the mid 1600s ever filled out to any degree? A lot of the events that happen after 1630ish seem to be up in the air or vague at best.

Side Question: I know King of Sartar was written in the 90s and my copy might be an older print, but whats with that story in it about Wakboth returning and Argrath tricking the gods into dying along with Wakboth when Argrath slays him? Is that cannon? The story is filed under "Miscellaneous Fragments" so was it just a piece of lore laying around that Greg included at the time?

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, Deepest_Lore said:

Is that canon?

Is it canon that it happens, or is it canon that Gloranthans will in the future tell the story of Argrath and the Devil?

I will put my neck on the line and say that it is canon that Fourth Agers tell the story. It works as an aetiological myth of how Glorantha got thinned into Earth or at any rate a more Earth-like world. My take is creation won’t be finished till the magic goes away. So I would say the myth tells a truth about the world — if only a “poetic” truth — but would you want to go on a fact-checking heroquest to see just how things went down?

Someone will post to disagree with everything I have said. Listen to them, not me.

[Kettlehelm]

I'd imagine all the magic in the rocks begins to die, creating iron deposits as the myths pull away to an even more allagorical past. But also iron loses it's effectiveness without magic to show it's power.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Kettlehelm

[Jeff]

There is no good source for what the Fourth Age of Glorantha is going to look like, and actually remarkably few data points. But to give you a few just to tease:

1. The Third Age is said to end in 1658 with the apotheosis of King Argrath. Others say that occurs 1733. 

2. Inkarne rules for a hundred years. This begins in either 1629 or 1643, depending on the source, and would mean she rules until 1729 or 1743.

3. The Illiteracy Era starts about a hundred years after the apotheosis of King Argrath. Some sources say around 1760 other sources put it around 1830. That's our Dark Ages.

4. The Illiteracy Era lasts a century or two. Argrath stories become a key part of early literature.

5. Argrath is widely renowned as THE great cultural hero but with many contradictory stories..

6. Roughly a 150 or so years after the Recovery era, our unnamed scholar tries to puzzle out the identity of Argrath.

[soltakss]

5 hours ago, Deepest_Lore said:

I'm relatively knew to Runequest and I've been going through the lore. I understand a lot of the lore has gotten tweaked over the years and is spread out over many books but what is the best source for what happens in Dragon Pass after Argrath becomes the Prince of Satar and drives the Lunars out? In the book The King of Sartar it gives dates into the 1700s and beyond.  Was the mid 1600s ever filled out to any degree? A lot of the events that happen after 1630ish seem to be up in the air or vague at best.

The events are an apocalypse, the ending of an age. It is really, really bad. All the seas go away, all the trolls die, blood and destruction everywhere, most of the deities are killed, Chaos returns in a big way, everyone forgets how to read so they tell stories instead and stories are unreliable.

King of Sartar is the best bet, but that is like a Norman looking back at the events after the Romans left Britain and piecing together dates from the stories that people told.

[Akhôrahil]

Extremely oddball excerpt from Lords of Terror, presumably not canonical even then (it's a rambling) and yet less now:

Quote

 

The Deliverance

Three Ages of the world have passed, and three more are yet to come. The freedom brought by time is an illusion, but a comforting one. Our world is doomed to replay the folly of the Gods Age before the divine plan of the Goddess can be completed. The False Gods interrupted the cycle of creation, rebirth and destruction by sabotaging the coming of the sixth and highest element.

Six is the perfect number. In each recreation of the world, six ages are experienced. The great powers of Godtime failed because of their weakness and fear, letting chaos into the world and disrupting the plan of the Goddess. We who live within Time must struggle to succeed where our predecessors failed. Only in this way can our flawless creation be consumed and reborn to a more perfect state, as was planned from the Beginning by She Who Devours the World.

The First Age is the Age of Darkness, and ended in the Darkness brought by Arkat the Destroyer. The Second Age is the Age of Water, and was destroyed in Water with the sinking of Seshnela, Births, and Jrustela. Our Age is the Age of Earth, and will end in Earth.

The Fourth Age is the Age of Fire, and will be like the Golden Age of Godtime. For five centuries the world will live in peace and light. Mankind will be happy, but will fall away from the worship of the Goddess, until only a few true believers are left. But ever will the children of the Goddess wait with patience, far beneath the troubled surface world.

Then will stagnant peace be shattered again. The Fifth Age, the Age of Storm, will come after the great fires destroy the world. Mankind will be a pitiful remnant once again, and monsters of the Outer Void will freely roam the Earth. At the end, Orlanth will dominate all as he did before, but his victory will be an empty one. All will suffer as he is chained, as was his father before him. Then he will perish in his own storms.

Then will the Sixth Age come, as it could not before. The Perfect One will return to heal the daughter of the Great Goddess, who is the New Goddess to come. The Shattered Moon will reunite, and rise once more to rule the Age of Moon. The broken body of Glorantha will be healed, and the true Arachne Solara will rule for a thousand years of harmony and peace. 

Then when the world is healed will the Goddess rise to devour all. Krasht's true name will be revealed at the end of Time, and the Goddess will be left alone in the Void. Then will She give birth to the new world, as She herself was reborn. Those who served Her in this lifetime will be rewarded in the new creation, ruling it as the gods of old ruled this world. 

This is the Way and the Plan of the Great Goddess. Those who threaten Her threaten the rebirth of the world. They must be destroyed, fed to the Goddess to fuel Her recreation at the end of Time. We hope that in their next incarnation they will see the error of their ways, and come to serve the Goddess, even as we do. Praise the Goddess, and you will feel Her blessing up you. Milk.

 

 

[mfbrandi]

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

like a Norman looking back at the events after the Romans left Britain and piecing together dates from the stories that people told

Sounds like a pitch for an RPG — what shall we call it? Oh, wait …

[Deepest_Lore]

7 hours ago, Jeff said:

There is no good source for what the Fourth Age of Glorantha is going to look like, and actually remarkably few data points. But to give you a few just to tease:

1. The Third Age is said to end in 1658 with the apotheosis of King Argrath. Others say that occurs 1733. 

2. Inkarne rules for a hundred years. This begins in either 1629 or 1643, depending on the source, and would mean she rules until 1729 or 1743.

3. The Illiteracy Era starts about a hundred years after the apotheosis of King Argrath. Some sources say around 1760 other sources put it around 1830. That's our Dark Ages.

4. The Illiteracy Era lasts a century or two. Argrath stories become a key part of early literature.

5. Argrath is widely renowned as THE great cultural hero but with many contradictory stories..

6. Roughly a 150 or so years after the Recovery era, our unnamed scholar tries to puzzle out the identity of Argrath.

Thanks for the reply Jeff. The ice demon invasion from the north during Inkarne's reign is what got me interested in seeking out information about the later ages.

[Deepest_Lore]

10 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Someone will post to disagree with everything I have said. Listen to them, not me.

I think your opinion is interesting that the world slowly becomes more mundane as it exits the age of myth.  The only issues I see with that idea is the mechanical implications and changes that would have to be made if a TTRPG was set in the less magical eras. But from a lore standpoint it's kinda fitting. (again I'm knew to the lore).

[DrGoth]

If you take Greg's view from the mid-90's (at least as I understand what it was) there is no canon for what happens.  Just a vast range of possibilities.

[mfbrandi]

10 hours ago, Deepest_Lore said:

(again I'm new to the lore)

Don’t let that stop you making it your Glorantha. (We wouldn’t want to view Lovecraft’s world through Lovecraft’s eyes for very long.)

1 hour ago, DrGoth said:

there is no canon for what happens.  Just a vast range of possibilities.

Let us hope it stays that way — the “future” as a permanent blank land.